[Brayden]

greetings,

recently, the pld of my LS emailed us a thread from allakhazam about the order in which a rdm should cast refresh. it looked like this:

rdm -> pld -> whm -> drk (providing s/he is using absorb spells) and lastly on the list was the blm.

when my wife read this (who is our blm) she was greatly stressed that she was being left out for "useless" since she was last on the list.

the point of the thread was to best keep up the chains, and that blms at post 50 have clearmind III and that it was more of a waste of time to refresh them because resting was so much faster.

i'd just like to hear if anyone thinks this is "on the ball" or if perhaps that individual is underestimating the blms need for refresh.

our LS/PT is whm, blm, rdm, pld, drk, sam if that helps

thanks for your time

[Jonnyram]

I pretty much agree with this, except I'd be more likely to put DRK after BLM based on the DRKs I have played with.

The reason for doing BLM last is that they generally learn to be very conservative with MP by the 40s and 50s. In fact, if they aren't conservative, they land themselves in hot water sometimes. PLD is the no.1 priority, obviously, because they have to heal themselves to keep hate, on a pretty small manapool. WHM and BLM may be interchangeable, I guess, depending on the need for haste and that kind of thing. Personally, I tend to just do it depending on the order of my party window though If you are keeping refresh on the people who need it, all the time, it doesn't matter about order after the first fight.

[l)@RK-l)EVIL]

you dont need to put the drk in the refresh order
2 refresh is enough for the drk every chain

i only use absorb agi/vit every fight (66mp) x4 = 132/264mp (some times absorb agi only but if you fight with crabs absorb vit will be so useful cuz there VIT is high)
and drain (21mp) x4 = 84 mp
total mp = 216/348 mp

i post that cuz many rdm says no refresh for drk and thats suck like what you see we need 200-350~ mp every full chain thats 2~ refreshs and its useful drain is 21 mp cost and we can recover 100~200 hp and it do damage also and cure III cost 48 mp and recover 180 hp :p

and if you fight crabs the drk will not need refresh anyway we could aspir , and about the refresh order i think the drks dont mind if the rdm refresh us at the last

[MrADC]

I agree with Jonnyram; the above order is how I refresh, except I refresh the blm before touching the dark, which is rare, maybe once every other battle when their mp is just about out.

[Gman]

Originally posted by Jonnyram
If you are keeping refresh on the people who need it, all the time, it doesn't matter about order after the first fight.

Exactly. Assuming you just cast it on each member as it wears off (or within reasonable amount of time) everyone will always have it anyway, so the only time the BLM would be last would be at the start when his mp is almost full anyway. That being said, BLM should come before DRK if both need it at same time.

[MMan530]

If you start the order as you're beginning the first chain and keep up on it, the order does not matter (as noted above). Everyone will gain the same amount of MP over time-- its when you forget to refresh that the order matters.

Personally, I always use this:
rdm -> whm -> blm -> pld

This is different than the 'recommended' order, but I start as the puller is pulling. I will refresh the paladin almost at the very same second that the paladin is using mp. The whm has lost mp from Protect and Shell, and the blm should be short by then from using an elemental debuff or two. Everyone has MP to gain back by refresh, whereas if you start with pld, the pld's mp will remain full for the first few seconds of the fight, and you lose the effectiveness of Refresh. However, with this method you must remember to keep up the refresh order.

Ultimately, you should use the order that works for you and your party. Like mentioned above, most darks don't need refreshed more than once or twice per chain.

[Gman]

In my opinion the most important thing is to start with yourself, and that's not meant to be a selfish comment, but it makes a lot of sense for 2 reasons.

1) You get a jumpstart on getting back the 80-160mp you will spend on refresh over the next 2 minutes.

2) You always notice when your own refresh runs out, but sometimes you miss when someone elses does. That way, as soon as yours goes, you know everyone else is still ok, and its time to start a new cycle.

[kumaeru]

Drks dont need to be in refresh order.. just look at Drk mp every 2-3 cycles and give a helpful refresh once in awhile. Most Rdm I PT with just use their common sense + generosity when it comes to refreshing Drk XD.

It can also depend on how the Drk plays however though, Some Drks will cast 2-3 Absorbs on 1 mob (33mp each). And if they are Elvaans or even maybe hume their mp goes down the drain. Galkas can't cast 3 abosrbs at once =.=; I've seen Galkan Drk only cast Drain rarely in PT because his MP would let him do any more.


<-- is Taru, and I've been using 2x Physical Earrings since lvl 58 when I switched to Phsyical + Assault, and I still have about 470MP as Drk.

All I'm saying is Drks is not a priority to be in the refresh cycle, but the Rdm needs to decide when its best to refresh the Drk while managing his/her own mp and everyone elses as well. At times I will ask a Rdm for refresh if my mp is very low and I can see they are not too busy and not low on mp themselves, although I do know that some people are very rude when asking for refresh >.>; and some rdm that are very rude in return when refusing to refresh you. ; ;

[AtraposBLM]

All the responses have been fairly on the mark, however, I'll add my notes as a blm.


If you don't refresh the blm...you're stupid. No offense...but all mages need MP, or they can't do their job. Even IF resting was faster (it isn't), why wouldn't you want the mp recovery to be even faster. More mp = more damage from the blm (or more curing, or more elemental-debuffing, or more sleepga crowd control, etc.).

Personally, I don't like being put last on the list because "BLM know how to conserve their mp and shouldn't use as much as WHM and/or PLD". That's bullcrap. Yes, I know how to make my MP last. With refresh, dark staff, my food, and black cloak, I can nuke to my heart's content and always have 200-300 mp left over after chain 5. Could I do that without refresh? Hell no. Yes, I have to budget my MP just like any other mage. If you don't refresh me...you make my job harder to do. Hence, your job, as a support class, is to help the rest of your members do their job easier. Be it hasting, refreshing, curing, or weakening the mob, your sole purpose is to make everyone in your group better. So why would ignore a job that so obviously benefits from refresh?

Lastly, Calixta makes a very good point with the order he uses to refresh. Refreshing the paladin first is fairly silly. Yes, he uses mp to keep hate. Whm's use mp to heal damage/status effects. BLM's use mp to deal damage. What's your point? Lack in any of those 3 and you'll feel the difference. Be it poor hate control, lack of curing for late chains, or slow kills. One job's MP is no more important than another job's.

What DOES make sense is to keep in mind what jobs use MP first, and how often that job will be at full mp. For paladins, they'll use 25 mp at the start of the battle (Flash). A little into the fight they'll cure themself...then flash, etc. But the point is they don't immediately start using MP, as they have other things to do (provoke, shield bash, sentinel, defender, etc.). In addition to that, the rate at which they use MP is slower (generally). Whm's, on the other hand, have to immediately start using MP. Protectra/Shellra, Regen, Haste, Status Cures, Heals, etc., all of which are done starting from the time the mob is pulled until it's dead. Same for blm. As soon as the mob is within range, I throw on shock/frost (or burn if I'm lower than the melee's), throw out a stun, use drain, and a dia. Then comes nukes. IMO, if there's any order (and it'll only matter the first time you do it, and any time you "reset" the chain (say if people need a pee break or something)), it should be:
RDM -- WHM -- BLM -- PLD.........................................--DRK

Just go by the rate at which MP is used, and how often the job is full. PLD will be full much longer than WHM or BLM if you refresh him first, so that's just wasting MP for him and for other mages.