[Szkol]

After doing some searching around the older forum posts RE: elemental arrows vs. scorpion arrows and elem. arrow damage in general, it seems like you'll get a small-ish, but noticeable damage increase over using scorp arrows. What dissapointed me was when I learned that the elemental damage doesn't really seems to add up to very much, even with loads of extra INT.

Obviously your elemental damage will be the most effective on mobs weak to that particular element, but has anyone ever tried using the ninjutsu spells to further enhance this effect? Since /NIN sub seems like the default choice, it seems like it might be a decent idea to use ninjutsu that weaken the mob against against a certain element (even more so if that mob is already weak against it) and then drop a WS or a Barrage for extra damage.

Has anyone tried this? I haven't ever used the ninja elemental wheel yet, so I'm not exactly sure how much the resistance down effect is worth.


Finally, do you think this would be useful in an XP situation? Simply using ninjutsu to lower a mob's elemental resistance regardless of their existing weaknesses and based more on the type of arrows you're currently firing, or would this be a better tactic to use situationally? Maybe a BCNM or quest/mission NM that has a certain weakness?


Thanks for any input.

[Malacite]

All the ninjutsu will do is lower the resist rates for a short time, it won't actually increase the damage directly.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

I can understand this discussion better if I knew the level you were working at, but in most cases, if you want more magic damage out of anything RNG has its best to forget about Elemental Arrows and look at Holy Bolts and a MND build.

[Szkol]

Originally Posted by Malacite

All the ninjutsu will do is lower the resist rates for a short time, it won't actually increase the damage directly.

I think this pretty much answers my question- i equated lower elemental resistance with lower elemental defense.

[nanatsu]

If you're level 45ish and using Fire, Ice, or Lightning Arrows, their additional damage effect is small. I was disappointed too when I first used them. But at around level 55 you get access to Earth, Water, and Wind Arrows, which have a larger additional effect, about 20-30ish for a RNG. The damage is nice, but the arrows are scarce, expensive to make, and expensive to buy. Like Kitten says, you would be better off using holy bolts/mnd gear, even on mobs that have elemental weakness to the appropriate arrow.

[Armando]

The level 45 arrows have static magic damage. Like Nanatsu said, the higher level ones do better damage and if I remember correctly, are INT-dependent (so more INT = more damage.) But like Nanatsu also said, they're not easy to come by and will often cost more than other kinds of ammo which would produce similar damage on non-physical-resistant mobs. Holy Bolts are RNG's bread-and-butter magic damage source.

Also,

I think this pretty much answers my question- i equated lower elemental resistance with lower elemental defense.

For future reference there are very few ways to increase the damage mobs take from magic in general besides increasing the damage of the nuke/whatever directly. And very few mobs actually take extra damage from magic. When a mob is said to be weak to a certain element, or to magic in general, it means that the mob is less likely to resist that specific element, magic in general, or that it's resistant to physical attacks so magic is the way to go.

[Callisto]

I just want to add that Holy Bolts are pretty cool on most things until you hit Colibri, which just suck all forms of ass at resisting the damage. I prefer Archery from that point on.

[Malacite]

Originally Posted by Armando

When a mob is said to be weak to a certain element, or to magic in general, it means that the mob is less likely to resist that specific element, magic in general, or that it's resistant to physical attacks so magic is the way to go.

This is actually something I wish SE would change, since it's pretty much been the standard for every RPG (set by SE no less IIRC)


Sorry for the derail but this is one of my pet peeves in the game. SMN is the only job in the game (well not counting QD) that has elemental magical attacks that differ only in element and not damage.

It's annoying because it leads to older spells being neglected and eliminates one of the key reasons for inviting a BLM in the first place; exploiting elemental weaknesses. Or am I the only one who misses some spells being neutral, 1 or 2 doing 50~100% more damage/effect, and others being resisted or outright absorbed?

[Szkol]

Originally Posted by Malacite

It's annoying because it leads to older spells being neglected and eliminates one of the key reasons for inviting a BLM in the first place; exploiting elemental weaknesses. Or am I the only one who misses some spells being neutral, 1 or 2 doing 50~100% more damage/effect, and others being resisted or outright absorbed?

I agree with you there- I can see where you might not want to have elemental arrows absorb damage, since there is physical damage there as well, but for spells, absolutely. If I cast a spell on a mob that is clearly strong in that element, it should absolutely be absorbed- the penalty I pay for being dumb and not know that bombs for example, are fire-type enemies.

[Armando]

If I cast a spell on a mob that is clearly strong in that element, it should absolutely be absorbed- the penalty I pay for being dumb and not know that bombs for example, are fire-type enemies.

That makes little sense, as very few enemies would logically absorb an attack of any given element, and weaknesses are very arbitrary in FFXI sometimes. Plus, it would get in the way of multi-elemental Skillchains, variable or attacks with variable elements.

[Mhurron]

Originally Posted by Szkol

strong in that element, it should absolutely be absorbed

Strong and immune do not mean the same thing.

[Callisto]

Ironic that Bombs were picked for that example, as they are very obviously fire-based mobs, but primarily weak to Fire in FFXI and FF as a series constantly waffles between having them weak to or absorbant of Fire.

[Mhurron]

Originally Posted by Callisto

Ironic that Bombs were picked for that example, as they are very obviously fire-based mobs, but primarily weak to Fire in FFXI

Fight fire with fire.

/No it doesn't make any more sense and I do think it's silly but the coin toss landed on heads for XI so bombs are weak to fire this time around.

[Raydeus]

Bombs in Vana'diel come in different forms and types but they are primarily gaseous masses encapsulated in a baloon-like fashion.

This explains why fire attacks have an effect on them as they speed up the combustion of the gas inside. Also, as the external body is weakened (and it's physical resistence is lowered) Bombs tend to grow bigger because of the pressure from the gas inside. This further lowers physical resistence of the external "membrane".



For more information on the subject please visit the Optistery in Windurst Waters. Where the always alert&awake minister Tosuka-Porika will be glad to kick you out of the facilities unless you seem scholarish enough to read the books inside.

[Mhurron]

Originally Posted by Raydeus

Bombs in Vana'diel come in different forms and types but they are primarily gaseous masses encapsulated in a baloon-like fashion.

This explains why fire attacks have an effect on them as they speed up the combustion of the gas inside. Also, as the external body is weakened (and it's physical resistence is lowered) Bombs tend to grow bigger because of the pressure from the gas inside. This further lowers physical resistence of the external "membrane".