OMG a RNG topic

[Callisto]

There is the new Enkidu's Subligar as well, which is basically Rajas for your ass and a passable WS piece to boot. I think a Store TP build would be totally viable, considering that giving up loads of RAcc for a Holy Bolt TP build is already an accepted route.

[Caspian]

Keep in mind that MND builds are highly situational. Good for meripo and a few other instances, but losing all that accuracy on hnm's is still probably not that beneficial.
As for O-hat, I had one, but not sure I really ever used it. I think I used wyvern helm 100% of the time. Pahluwan legs are really easy to get, only took a couple weeks. I never had an Osode, but I got to play around with one sometimes. Very sexy.

[Callisto]

I'll have an Osode eventually, not in a rush at the moment as I'm intending to pick up an Archer's Jupon to hold over, I still need my Altruistic Cape and W.Hands/S.Kote to drop in order for room to clear up to allow me to wishlist Osode(We charge multiple wishlist slots for certain big-ticket items).

The O-Hat's pretty much just for Barrage and TPing on evasive crap, and a hold-over until I can get him up to Emblems for some Cobra Unit stuff. I'm hoping that I can get this character into an Assault static with some of our non-Nyzul members for Paluwhan pants, but pants for ranged attackers is pretty meh in general, really there's just Paluwhan and Denali and not alot else.
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It seems that a 4-hit isn't going to happen without SAM Roll, although a 5-hit is perfectly feasible even without giving up lots of RAcc, that's still pretty heavy duty, especially combined with Barrage.

[Dymlos]

Hey Callisto do you plan to get the Cobra Unit Bow for DoT/WS damage testing for those unable to get an Ebow or Sbow? I'm considering emailing SE to update the Cobra Bow and add some +RATK to the data. >.>

[Callisto]

I know for sure I'll be adding him to Windy in the past for Cobra Unit gear, so yeah I could try. What I can tell from looking at it already, the delay is somewhat high for a Bow so you shouldn't have problems hitting a 5-hit with it, and the base damage is rather hefty, definitely more than the STR/AGI on E.Bow make up for, although +23 RAtk is a gigantic chunk to make up for. It'd most likely will put up larger WS #'s than the E.Bow, but that's only really half the story since it matters more which would put out the most damage in the same amount of time.

I believe the main difference would lie in if you can 5-hit on E.Bow relatively easy or not, I'll try to figure that out RQ.
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Ok, this does indeed seem somewhat sticky. I'm going to assume you'd use Marid Arrows for the greater delay, but even then it takes a solid amount to get a 5-hit with /SAM, and the difference between the two isn't alot, +31 for Cobra Bow and +34 for E.Bow.

Since you'd have to give up a fair amount of other slots for that much sTP, especially the hands slot, which is a pretty big deal since that's another 10 RAtk/10 RAcc from CFG's, you'd be missing out on 33 RAtk/5-8 RAcc going with the Cobra bow, that's a huge chunk from only 2 slots.

If it was immensely easier to 5-hit on Cobra I would think it'd come out on top, but really it's not, and I think over the course of all of your shots E.Bow would almost always come out on top.

[VZX]

The thing about Hellfire, even +1 is that with the addition of Snapshot and Velocity shot, the O-Bow and V/E-Bow draw greater benefit from the effects. Hellfire was slow before and now it just feels slower.

if Ebow was fast for you before they add snapshot merit, then you can't say HF+1 is slow now with VShot + 5/5 merit. I tried using HF+1 on Iriz Ima yesterday, and it's hella fast with 5/5 Snapshot merit.
Rapid Shot has diminishing return as your weapon delay is slower, you can save more aiming time on HF+1 than you can on Ebow/Obow

640*.75 = 480 delay. The same delay of your NQ hexagun. 10 less delay than base delay of Ebow

As for 4-hit build RNG/SAM, if you have SAM in PT, you pretty much can guarantee 4 hit build will always work with Rajas as your only STP piece. Otherwise, you may need more other stuff like Skadi's Chausses or maybe Cobra's Leggings.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

While that may be true, it still feels as though guns are lacking in DoT and versatility compared to thier counterparts.

[VZX]

About DoT, I don't think RNG should really concentrate on DoT. We're not anywhere close to NIN or MNK when you parse. We maybe closer to SAM. 50-60% of our total damage is made from WS/Barrage, while the rest of it is normal shooting.

I'm not sure what do you mean by lacking versatility. Marksmanship includes gun and crossbow. When debuffs from crossbow are effective, we should always use it. Otherwise, Gun will just take over giving more direct damage.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

About DoT, I don't think RNG should really concentrate on DoT. We're not anywhere close to NIN or MNK when you parse. We maybe closer to SAM. 50-60% of our total damage is made from WS/Barrage, while the rest of it is normal shooting.

I'm going to take NIN as a typo, I've never met a NIN DoTing that kept hate while I shot off arrows. If your point is we're more focused on burst damage, then OK.

I'm not sure what do you mean by lacking versatility. Marksmanship includes gun and crossbow. When debuffs from crossbow are effective, we should always use it. Otherwise, Gun will just take over giving more direct damage.

Yeah, but when it comes to direct damage, bow tends to win out, does it not? Places we can use Crossbow effectively, it'll take priority. I can't think of one place in the game where I'm saying, "Man, I'm glad I used a Hellfire and Silver Bullets."

[VZX]

I'm going to take NIN as a typo, I've never met a NIN DoTing that kept hate while I shot off arrows. If your point is we're more focused on burst damage, then OK.

It's not a typo.
If you take a parse from a good NIN, their total damage made up by 66% melee swing, while the other 33% coming from WS. You don't see this when you play your RNG. Unless your WS really suck

Yeah, but when it comes to direct damage, bow tends to win out, does it not?

What's the reason?
Ebow + Demon's DoT : 106.5/6.1875 = 17.21
HF+1 + Silver's DoT : 123/7.21 = 17.03

I don't see it as 'lacking difference'. Those BLU who offhand ifrit's blade instead of Demon Slayer do have 'lacking difference'. The DoT difference in that 2 weapons is apparent. Not so much when we compare HF+1 + Silver Bullet and Ebow + Demon

The amount of TP required to reach 100 - 120 TP is also the same, In fact, HF+1+ Silver Bullet win by 1 sec

Places we can use Crossbow effectively, it'll take priority. I can't think of one place in the game where I'm saying, "Man, I'm glad I used a Hellfire and Silver Bullets."

I don't use crossbow on Limbus Mega bosses and ZNMs.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

It's not a typo.
If you take a parse from a good NIN, their total damage made up by 66% melee swing, while the other 33% coming from WS. You don't see this when you play your RNG. Unless your WS really suck

I understand the distinction you're trying to make. I'm just saying that taken at face value, your statement seems to imply that NIN competes with MNK and RNG in damage. I'm sure that's not the intent of what you said, but its easily misconstrued.

I don't use crossbow on Limbus Mega bosses and ZNMs.

Who does?

[Dymlos]

Has anyone been able to get a Paddock Trousers yet for Recycle testing? I haven't been able to get my Scout's Beret until the next Jeuno run on Sat. (damn you weeknight work!) and I've been meaning to do this ZNM so I can use those pants until I can get my Recycle hat.