So RNG got stiffed (again)?

[Mhurron]

Because they (actually only really seen OMG cry about it) can't be number one by a big margin, they cry.

The ranged attack cap for ranged weapons is generally higher than that of the standard forms of attack, but now the two-hander adjustment makes it seem like even that small advantage doesn't exist.

Remember if it wasn't a *BIG* difference, RNG was nerfed.

[Eauijhkuu]

It's sort of how THFs feel now with this new 2h update. An AH geared melee job (which imo, is not a decked out player since most of the best equip is no AH-attainable) can now out spike a pimped out THF. Is that fair? Someone who has spent a lot of time to gear in hecta/homan is not nothing more than a glorified lucky rabbits foot.

Fugee-la-la

And...bingo.
But you know, that's the awesomeness that is Square-Enix.
And while it might sound extremely bitter, I'm quite sure it is because of the high lack of good DRG, SAM, and DRK, that S-E had to make it to where the vast majority of those players can practically pack larger numbers to compensate for their horribly kitsch playing abilities, and only elevating those players who understand how to play their jobs correctly.

Thusly assumed, can we now say that those who chose to stick to their LV75 THF are considered something of a hardcore breed? Because we have never hit for much DoT wise to begin with. Inferring to the antics would only seemingly place us further down the bottom of the DD totem pole as far as utility and damage dealing are concerned, save the PUP (but obviously uncertain as of late) Those of us that do have good sense do actually buy ninja tools and spend our money on stacks of bolt quivers, and exerting a great deal of time to acquire Rare/ex items that actually benefit our job greatly (Since an AH THF, while skilled, is usually always lacking)

So no.
It's obviously not about the relationship between Gil and Damage output.
Because I assure you that I spend about as much, if not close to, as a Ranger probably would on Ammunition. (Yes I use both Arrows and Bolts, and sometimes even Throwing)

And it's not wholly about time spent either, because it pains me to think that I have to push for a good month or so to get an awesome body piece through assault points, vs. a job that has never done an assault in a great while.

But I think more importantly to the reasoning as to why you even play the job that you do is because...you are actually passionate about the job you play and could care less if another DD outdamages you because they were programmed that way through a bias scope?....

Nah; That just sounds way too much like a romantic.

I guess I completely only play THF because I couldn't give a flying flip about any other job's performance over my own (Insert random Non-conformist opinions here); I am most confident to say that I play the job quite well, and possibly better than a SAM or DRK main ever would or could. And cool if it brings bias to the job since other jobs can outdamage it; People always seem to let new fads cramp their style for a bit, until they get tired of it and jump to something popularly 'efficient', of which you'll probably notice the waves fully and effectively stirring with the release of the new expansion.

[Callisto]

I think the AH vs Rare/Ex argument only works on some jobs. Yes, I'd want my THF using Heca pieces for WS swaps to crank out massive #'s, and a RDM to have several AF2/Sky pieces. At the same time, if I had to choose I'd sure as hell want my SAM/RNG in Hachiman pieces and my DRK in Black pieces, and maybe I'm wrong but I don't see a ton of R/E pieces that can match those.

Besides, I've learned from experience that absolutely any fucktard can get Sky pieces and AF2, hell they seem to dominate endgame from what I've seen. On the other hand, I don't know a lot of DRKs that can earn and save up 4-5m for a Black set without being a good player.

[Eauijhkuu]

I know I'll step on alot of people's toes (You can go read my rant personally as far as the almighty plethora of THF abjuration selection goes)

Hecatomb can only do so much for a dual weaponed job. Even in macroing, there is not mighty benefit from swapping gear that gives you +Crit% or +ACC or +Double and or Triple attack gear. Or unless you're lucky enough to find someone's lost Mandau.

But of course, a DRK in Hecatomb will actually be somewhat of a god now.

Why is this?

Because of the WS% that are geared to them.
Which is practically the only reason SAM can dish out so much damage now since Gekko, and Kashi are like 75% STR.

That. +Double Attack. +SA. And all that gear that designers give them as far as Store TP, STR+, and ACC+ goes, gives them a very keen edge as far as Damage Dealing goes nowadays.

Tho...I never really did see what was wrong with them making skillchains two years or so ago.

[Omni]

Because I assure you that I spend about as much, if not close to, as a Ranger probably would on Ammunition. (Yes I use both Arrows and Bolts, and sometimes even Throwing)

I highly doubt that. I truly do, because 90% of the time you are engaged you are melee-ing. I'll give you 10-15% of the time trying to land your acid or possibly regain some hp with bloody bolts. If you shoot as much as you say you do, you're pretty much negating one of THFs best attributes: TPing fast. THFs TP pretty damn fast to 100 so if you're busy doing that, you're not shooting.

I'm not saying you dont spend money on ammo at all. I've played THF also so I know that you -can- go through ammo but it is no where near the amount a rng goes through. So I think your account is a slight exaggeration.

According to FFXIAH.com for remora:

Acid bolt quiver x12: 13,000
Bloody bolt quiver x12: 25,000
Blind bolt quiver x12: 25,000

Kabura quiver x12: 150,000

Sure, you might spend the same amount of gil initially but get this, those 36 quivers of bolts you just bought llast you a mighty long time. By the time you finish off all of your first purchase, I would have gone back for my 3rd helping by then.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

I honestly don't see how RNG is 'nerfed'...maybe I missed something, granted I don't have a great knowledge of what the S-E implemented 'RNG nerf' back in the day entailed. I do routinely see RNGs dealing out a whole shit-ton of damage, firing 1500+ weaponskills like it's nothing at all. I only played RNG up to 37 so I don't know how it is endgame, but it really doesn't seem too far behind any other DD jobs when I watch them in merit parties. Yes, you don't get extra damage relative to the amount you spend on ammo...but you also aren't shelling out for Haubys, Scorpion Harnesses, Bomb Cores, Speed Belts, Black Pieces, Sniper's Rings, Forager's Mantles, Haguns, Barone/Hydra pieces, and Mezraqs. Your consumable costs are certainly much higher, but gear-wise RNG gets off pretty easy, as most of the best pieces are rare/ex, or not more than a couple hundred thousand gil.

When the nerf happend RNG lost a fraction of the damage was lost. Before that nerf, Sidewinder and Slugshot completely ignored level difference penalties. RNG got the ability to do that again later with Flashy Shot when it was added as a merit ability.

What made the nerf bad, though was not the loss of damage, we could sub /WAR and pretty much make up most of what we lost. We lost accuracy in a big way and SE left that to sit for a year and a half. As I said before, the way ranged attacks and weaponskills were calculated post-nerf did not factor in the RNG's equipment or food like it should have, so missing WS became more common. The problem with that is RNG gets quite a few Accuracy Bonus traits, we're supposed to be the kings of accuracy and we couldn't land vital shots anymore.

The October update addressed this issue and accuracy was practically fixed. We also got some damage back.

What happened with Monday's update was not a nerf to anyone, but it wasn't exactly scaled to balance out with WAR, MNK, RNG, PUP and THF. The two-handers definately should have had better damage than they once had, but this is overkill.

If SE wants people to play this game or stick with the jobs they've invested time and gil into, they need to let people know thier jobs are getting scaled in a timely fashion. I don't care if they intend to update RNG in a month or two months or by the time WotG is out, just let us know what the plan is.

People keep wanting to find a complaint in my posts, but my OP was really just more bewildered than angry. I think its all kinda too good to be true and will be rescaled pretty soon or other jobs will be scaled up.

I mean, let's just look at what else changed on a job level:

DRG gets 2nd Accuracy Bonus Trait
COR buffs scaled up, new bullets
BST loses EXP penalty, jug pet life extended, additional way to regen pet HP
PUP gets a WHM and BLM frame.

While I like DRG and COR a lot, the BST and PUP changes really stick out to me. Up until now SE has sometimes contended these jobs are for soloing, but these changes clearly make them a little more favorable to PTs and Alliance play.

I think SE is priming BST to be a crowd-controller for some future content, the potential had been there forever, but we've not really had but a handful of high level camps where they could capitalize on it. In WotG I don't think that potential can even be ignored.

With these new PUP attachments, PUP now has some room to be a healer/DD hybrid. If the Soulsoother frame proves to be as effective as I think it could be, PUP is a DD with a free backup healer. They might not still be a great DD, but that's a boost to versatility that cannot be denied.

I think more big changes are coming, but SE just needs to be a bit more forthcoming because in the meantime, its shifting the currenty balance of the game to a different extreme, but ultimately the same problem as before.

Again, I already am getting PTs where its Job x4, its just this time its DRG or DRK instead of WAR and MNK. I was sick of that song back when I was levelling BRD with RNG x4 half the bloody time. Hell, I've never even been in an arrowburn on my RNG save for one ISNM60 run.

Job x4 is a plague to this game and it needs to fucking stop.

[Legal Fish]

Ranger could use some more utility in my opinion. It doesn't look likely they will be able to be the top DDs again(not to say they aren't great, they are). Something that would make up for the fact they spend gil for their damage.

Like getting boosts in ammo status effect accuracy... perhaps nearly to the point of 100%(or at least comparable to a mage's spell).

More Damage or useful job abilities as well.

Straight damage isn't the answer imo.

[Callisto]

LoL, I was about to say something along the lines of Shadowbind that did other effects, like Sleep. Then I was like oh yeah, they call that Quick Draw.

[VZX]

RNG is already losing to other job before this 2h patch in TP gain potential.
We don't have haste, we only have shitty lol6%snapshot, and lolrapidshot.
Melee got what? 60% haste from gear, 2xmarch, haste? not to stack with double attack triple attack at once. We just lose in that departement

WS damage is the only thing we proud of. But now, seeing how 2h easily replicate those number, I never understand those who say RNG don't need a buff

Give us double shot trait, Give us haste, even 50-75% effectiveness, it's still good.
Give us more ratk gear.

/rant off

[Akashimo]

<_<; Let's look to the main points I've noticed on this thread.

1)Job x4 is a plague as BBQ said.
2)Jobs that depend on one handed weapons are beyound overshadowed now
(War doesn't count cause they got just about every weapon access now)
3)The shear power 2Handers got with /thf now -.- Making thf main look like a joke.

1) I seriously loathe being in these setups on whm and rdm, it just wasn't what makes me enjoy the job. I leveled them cause of how they used to before this massive burn craze. For their uniqueness, not just shell out mp cure whores.
2)Mainly thf, pld, whm, mnk, brd(as a dd), are gonna suffer cause of these formula changes. I've spent the last two days just to see my average parsing by eying. Whm with staff hands down beats my mnk, thf and whm with clubs DDing on lesser colibri and spiders. Its only 60 skill levels under cap mind you, yet I have more acc and higher weapon dmg out put that with the other one handed weapons at thier peak. With exception to spike damage from weapon skills. Its just driving me insane.

3) Now add in a drk/thf, sam/thf, war/thf or drg/thf and SATA. EASILY out does the best dd quality of what thf can do main with daggers or swords. Nothing, gets on me more than seeing someone using my main job of choice subbed and easily out does it when they don't even get the SATA modifiers. Thf shouldn't be out down in this fashion cause they're really like what other threads are coming to pass, just a glorified TH. I love being a thf, enjoy soloing, spending time pulling in dynamis, watching smn mobs wiff me. I'm not in it for the gear, sure its nice, but gear hunting is nothing but headaches for me. But when it comes to get exp back and merit to do better when soloing or helping with nms, ect, and it just sickens me to get over shadowed so easily cause of anyone can /thf and take my only DD quaility from me. Pulling for exp/merits is left in the hands of those annoying merit mob hording bards that can just whip of elegy and lullaby, so yeah... uhg. Only real updates I've seen for thf has to be the Assassin job trait and the dagger dmg changes, but nothing else. Every other job got something new and fancy changes, be nice if they weren't used to monopolize on what makes thf good, impossible to gauge just from subbing.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

LoL, I was about to say something along the lines of Shadowbind that did other effects, like Sleep. Then I was like oh yeah, they call that Quick Draw.

Exactly.

[Eauijhkuu]

Sure, you might spend the same amount of gil initially but get this, those 36 quivers of bolts you just bought llast you a mighty long time. By the time you finish off all of your first purchase, I would have gone back for my 3rd helping by then.

lol. Doubt w/e;

I go through these things in like a matter of days. I spam bolts for TP, pulling, and hitting things (like Faust) w/ /range. But as one would assume that when you do see THF, they don't use ranged attacks at all while fighting ~ I do, all the time.

And yeah it's very much hyperbole in the sense of making a moot point, but I'm a say that a good majority of my gil goes towards Ammo (Have you noticed the price of Paralysis Arrows, and the other 2 bolt quivers that I do use as well? ), Food, and tools.

I believe strongly that a good player uses every tool that he's given; That's what I intend to do irregardless of what I parse vs other jobs.

[VZX]

I believe strongly that a good player uses every tool that he's given;

I believe strongly that a good player uses tools that he's given properly

I have seen a lot of people with good gear, even with swap. That setup still fail for that specific purpose

[Legal Fish]

LoL, I was about to say something along the lines of Shadowbind that did other effects, like Sleep. Then I was like oh yeah, they call that Quick Draw.

Well, job abilities would be nice, but I was also talking about status effects from arrows(or bolts or bullets) having extreme consistency when a RNG uses it. (Maybe require MND+ and Magic Accuracy or something? but not a lot... barely any).

[Dymlos]

VZX, it's kinda hard to be good at RNG in this situation:

Ranger uses Sidewinder, mob takes 1000 damage.
Melee uses SATA, Melee uses WS, mob takes 2500 damage.

Kinda hard to being a DD when this crap happens every single freaking time!

Edit: I forgot who said this, but what SE needs to do is make Snapshot an actual progressive Job trait for Rangers since it's disgusting how we don't get haste except for a lol6% snapshot merit. If SE won't give us a progressive trait then up the merit to 5% per merit so we can at least get basic haste of 15% fully merited. 6% is a f'ing joke.

What they could also do is add an exclusive ranged attack bonus progressive trait which would stack with WAR's attack bonus. I would want to see this trait start hitting at 38 so CORs don't get it and outshine.