Post-update RNG results

[Caspian]

Thanks Omni. Pretty much what I've been reading elsewhere too. Seems dmg got a little boost and accuracy is MUCH better now. Have to see how my dmg is on xp mobs, but I may be sticking with meat 99% of the time now.
Thanks again.

[Omni]

yea i ate meat while killing some adds and had no trouble landing shots. i know for a fact before, even when facing T mobs, eating meat still gave me acc issues. I ate sole sushi when taking on the trigger nms and sis kebabi for all other times.

I cant wait to hit the mire and see how a STR heavy build + meat and /war would do. I might just get myself killed even. :D

[Cometgreen]

Hmm, my experience tonight was not as mindblowing as I had hoped, but I think it was just poor circumstances. I was in a 59-60 pt fighting crawlers in Aydeewa, so they were IT++. My first battle was awesome - 9 for 9, so I popped a sis kebabi. I had a bard hitting me with prelude, so I thought it would be fine, but a few battles were just horrible until I hit 60. When I first equipped my gun, I only hit 4/11. I weeped for those lost silver bullets...

But after 60, I died and delvled, and switched to sole sushi. It got much better, with my lowest hit rate being 10/12 with my xbow. I ended up having the best damage even without slugwinders factored in. So despite the bad first impression, it does seem like accuracy really has been beefed up, which is all I wanted. And I'm assuming that, when I'm not fighting IT+ and update some of my gear (AF body, deadeye gloves), I can get about the same accuracy with meat.

The distance penalty is definitely pulled back; in fact it seems like the damage only drops when I enter melee range. But I found Berserk to be acting very strangely. I used to always see atleast ~20 dmg increase with my arrows with Berserk up, but the dmg increase here seemed random. It's almost as if there was a cap on how much additional ratk I could have, because with sis kebabi+minuet, my Berserk didn't seem to add anything. It's probably just my imagination, and I'll get another group tomorrow, but it had me worried.

[Omni]

I just participated in the Lv. 6 besieged. I ate sis kebabi the first half hour and was about to hit everything pretty well. i went like 13/15 on slugs. I spent most my time chipping away at Medusa. I found that even at distance 18-20, i was still able to consistantly land shots on medusa. the 2 slugs i missed were on medusa and both were let go under 150% tp.

After my sis kebabi wore off, I ate a sole sushi. dmg dropped off but acc was great. I remember facing Medusa before and I had the hardest time landing consistant shots. I tried to stay out of range of most of her moves. Considering that all her moves hit pretty damn hard and petrify too.

More as I go along...

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Hmm, my experience tonight was not as mindblowing as I had hoped, but I think it was just poor circumstances. I was in a 59-60 pt fighting crawlers in Aydeewa, so they were IT++. My first battle was awesome - 9 for 9, so I popped a sis kebabi. I had a bard hitting me with prelude, so I thought it would be fine, but a few battles were just horrible until I hit 60. When I first equipped my gun, I only hit 4/11. I weeped for those lost silver bullets...

But after 60, I died and delvled, and switched to sole sushi. It got much better, with my lowest hit rate being 10/12 with my xbow. I ended up having the best damage even without slugwinders factored in. So despite the bad first impression, it does seem like accuracy really has been beefed up, which is all I wanted. And I'm assuming that, when I'm not fighting IT+ and update some of my gear (AF body, deadeye gloves), I can get about the same accuracy with meat.

The distance penalty is definitely pulled back; in fact it seems like the damage only drops when I enter melee range. But I found Berserk to be acting very strangely. I used to always see atleast ~20 dmg increase with my arrows with Berserk up, but the dmg increase here seemed random. It's almost as if there was a cap on how much additional ratk I could have, because with sis kebabi+minuet, my Berserk didn't seem to add anything. It's probably just my imagination, and I'll get another group tomorrow, but it had me worried.

You probably hit the camp just a little too early for your level. Also, BRD Prelude just can't match what you get from sushi - Prelude is a flat bonus, Sushi is a percentage bonus - that's why it boggles my mind why any RNG would take Preludes and meat over Minuet and sushi with a BRD in PT. What attack Minuet gives makes attack bonuses from meat look like a joke.

As for Beserk, I think it's just you being there a couple levels early, the boost from zerk was 15-20 more per shot on arrows and guns, it was xbow that felt a bit more random for me. But then, I was alternating Darksteels, Holys and Acids, so maybe I just didn't keep track so well. I have a lot of holy bolt excess, I a burn them at will. With Gun it was just Silvers and with Bow I shot Demons and switched to Bodkin when i ran out.

I did a level 5 Besieged last night against the Trolls. At 62, the accuracy was much more consistant with most of the targets engaged, I'd say maybe 75 percent hit rate. But with the NMs, it just dropped off. I'd say I was just too low to hit the likes of Gurfurler the Menacing consistantly or for much damage. Still compared to previous runs at level 61, the accuracy improvement was very noticable.

[Lmnop]

What attack Minuet gives makes attack bonuses from meat look like a joke.

I don't know exact numbers, but I don't think that's quite true...

I guess double minuets will end up giving a bit more, but I don't think it's extremely significant. From a melee perspective, I'm always happiest with one Madrigal, one Minuet, and Attack food. But I could see how for a RNG, just eating sushi and getting Double Minuet would be easiest on BRD as well. Though if you're in an party with melee who all demand marches, the BRD could stick you with Preludes easier than they could stick you with double minuets w/out hitting the melees (that's one hell of a BRD).

[Omni]

I guess double minuets will end up giving a bit more, but I don't think it's extremely significant.

whoa whoa whoa here. double minuet is awesome. its not just slightly better, it makes a large difference.

last pt in mire, i had a brd giving me double minuet. however a lot of the times im pulling too and standing away from melee to be able to leave early and get the next pull so i get hit with ballad or some other random song.

anyhow, with o-bow + darksteel on imps no songs, id be hitting for ~110. with only 1 minuet, it pops up to about ~130. with 2 minuets, i can reach 165-180. with discoball+minuet x2, i was hitting for 200+ a shot. only with 2 minuets is when i was able to pop slugshots for 1000+, whenever i had 1 or no minuet, my slugs dropped to 700-900. with discoball+minuets, i was able to reach 1400+ on slugs with obow+darksteel.

dont underestimate the power of minuets. if you want raw dmg increase, minuet gives you the biggest instant upgrade around behind popping meat.

[greydaze]

Okay, I'm going to post my findings last night on 64 RNG.

PT setup:

SMN 63
WHM 62
RDM 62
RNG 64
RNG 64
NIN 64


Gear:

Fransisca
Trailer's Kukri
Selene's Bow
Demon Arrows
AF Hat
RNG Necklace
Drone Earring x2
AF Body
Noct Gloves +1
Scorpion Rings x2
Amemit Mantle
RK Belt +1
AF Pants
AF Boots


Now, the other RNG was using the EXACT same gear, except:

Scorpion Ring +1 = Woodsman's Ring
Amemit Mantle = Amemit Mantle +1
AF Pants = Jaridah Pants


So, the other RNG had +13 RATK over me and +1 STR.

FOOD:

Me = Coeurl Sub
Other RNG = Sole Sushi


CAMP:

Mount Zhaolym- Magma Erucas


With Ecliptic Howl, I was landing a good 9/10 shots. While the other RNG had a little better accuracy (very small difference; we were reaching 100% TP at virtually the same time), her shots were doing noticably less.

ME: 102-108 (no Growl)/110-118 (with Growl)
HER: 80-87 (no Growl)/90-102 (with Growl)

Sidewinders were nearly identical, with me doing about 685 per SW and her about 650 per. I missed four sidewinders in a two hour PT. She missed maybe three.

The really strange thing? I couldn't find the difference between melee distance and the sweet spot! I swear, there was a literal 5-10 damage per shot difference. Does anyone else notice this? I thought maybe I was just missing the spot, but id step back, step forward, move around... Nothing. Just that same difference.

[Cometgreen]

Though if you're in an party with melee who all demand marches, the BRD could stick you with Preludes easier than they could stick you with double minuets w/out hitting the melees (that's one hell of a BRD).

With the exception of one awesome JP party, this is how it's always been. The melees at my level generally want minuet and something else (madrigal or march), so getting double minuets just for the rng is not that practical for the brd. I can see why sushi+minuetx2 is better than meat+prelude, I just don't think I'll be seeing it again for a while.

And I definitely agree that we were fighting crawlers a bit too early, and that is probably why berserk was not all that great. I do remember my bolts doing noticeably more damage with Berserk when fighting VT puktraps at lvl 60.

[VZX]

Thanks for all the numbers guys :D

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

I guess double minuets will end up giving a bit more, but I don't think it's extremely significant. From a melee perspective, I'm always happiest with one Madrigal, one Minuet, and Attack food. But I could see how for a RNG, just eating sushi and getting Double Minuet would be easiest on BRD as well. Though if you're in an party with melee who all demand marches, the BRD could stick you with Preludes easier than they could stick you with double minuets w/out hitting the melees (that's one hell of a BRD).

Well, now you're talking about he numbskull TP burn PT trend and Marches have more to do with speeding up recast timers and dual wield rather than enhance damage. A good BRD is going to be able to decide whats best for the whole without catering exclusively to subjobs... and the upcoming BRDs have been lacking in quality since ToA. Haste and Slow don't affect RNG directly and if I'm pulling as BRD the last thing I'd want is two more songs tacked on my rotation when I can just hit every melee with minuets and pull.

Marchx2 was never called upon pre-ToA and I only roll with IT+ PTs as BRD now. As RNG and COR, I have to actively tell mages they're wasting MP on me with Haste.

Anyway, hopefully /SAM will catch on and the haste added from the Hasso ability will hopefully shake up PT setups and get not onlt RNGs in them but also change BRDs songs.

As an aside, have there been any arrowburn PT forming up with RNGs and CORs yet?

[Cometgreen]

OK, got a good group this afternoon, chaining lesser colibris as lvl 60 RNG. It seemed like sis kebabi gave me a 40 dmg increase per shot with all my weapons, whereas Berserk consistently gave me +40 dmg for xbow/gun, and +50 for bow, which is definitely a bigger improvement than what I got as a 59 RNG on them last week. Without food and Berserk, my Sidewinders did about 850; with sis kebabi, about 1000-1100; with sis kebabi + Berserk, about 1400. I also hit my first 4 digit Barrage, and got decent Barrages without Sharpshot. In fact, I never had a complete miss, which was refreshing.

I'd have to say I agree with the new theory that ratk buffs have a bigger influence depending on the mob's level. There was a small change with Berserk on IT++ crawlers last night, a noticeable change on VT puktraps, and a pretty huge change on VT (almost T) lesser colibris. Anyone see similar results?

As for distance, I saw a consistent decrease of ~14% in damage with all buffs when going from sweetspot to melee. My holy bolts would do ~150 from xbow sweetspot and ~130 from melee. My arrows would do ~230 from bow sweetspot and ~200 from melee.

I only wish I had a Selene's Bow and a brd. Given that it was new moon, I probably could have reached 300 per shot (I did get a few 300 crits, though).

[greydaze]

Another set of numbers I c/p from a parser. Keep in mind, I was in melee range (hell, an extra 5 TP every once in a while? sure!), so my accuracy is recorded MUCH lower than it was. I would estimate 85% ranged accuracy to 15-30% melee accuracy. We didn't get to go long, but iot was good fast XP while it lasted.

Experience
Start: 12:00:00 AM
Total Exp: 7123
Per Hour: 0
Per Minute: 0

Experience Chains
EXP Chain #0: 1157 - 7 times, 165.29 average.
EXP Chain #1: 1383 - 7 times, 197.57 average.
EXP Chain #2: 1273 - 7 times, 181.86 average.
EXP Chain #3: 1423 - 7 times, 203.29 average.
EXP Chain #4: 1386 - 6 times, 231 average.
EXP Chain #5: 501 - 2 times, 250.5 average.

__Kaithran (RNG 64)
Total Fights: 35
Average Damage: 734.2
Average Percent: 31.87
Average Accuracy: 61.54
Estimated DPS:


__Crebian (SAM 65)
Total Fights: 34
Average Damage: 809.09
Average Percent: 34.31
Average Accuracy: 82.13
Estimated DPS:

__Orinthia (DRK64)
Total Fights: 35
Average Damage: 517.97
Average Percent: 22.27
Average Accuracy: 75.35
Estimated DPS:

__Nihi (PLD 66)
Total Fights: 35
Average Damage: 263.37
Average Percent: 11.32
Average Accuracy: 54.1
Estimated DPS:


And below, the specifics from two battles.


__Kaithran - The Magmatic Eruca(1)
Melee Damage: 3, 26,
Ranged Damage: 105, 105, 102, 105, 105, 105,
Total Damage: 656

__Nihi - The Magmatic Eruca(1)
Melee Damage: 19, 39, 34, 24,
Heals: 192,192,
Recovered: 192,192,
Total Damage: 116

__Orinthia - The Magmatic Eruca(1)
Melee Damage: 92, 80, 86, 71,
Total Damage: 329

__Crebian - The Magmatic Eruca(1)
Melee Damage: 74, 118, 81, 84,
Total Damage: 357




__Kaithran - The Magmatic Eruca(2)
Melee Damage: 12, 5, 1, 8,
Ranged Damage: 105, 105, 105, 105, 105, 105, 105, 38,
Total Damage: 799

__Orinthia - The Magmatic Eruca(2)
Melee Damage: 77, 86, 86, 124, 84,
Spells: 105 (Drain),
Total Damage: 562

__Nihi - The Magmatic Eruca(2)
Melee Damage: 43, 46, 32, 35, 46, 35, 35, 25, 24, 46, 46, 46,
Heals: 192,192,
Recovered: 192,192,191,
Total Damage: 459

[VZX]

I'd have to say I agree with the new theory that ratk buffs have a bigger influence depending on the mob's level. There was a small change with Berserk on IT++ crawlers last night, a noticeable change on VT puktraps, and a pretty huge change on VT (almost T) lesser colibris. Anyone see similar results?

Yes,
here's my temporary conclusion on damage-distance curve
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v493/vzx/sketch2.jpg