Reverse the Changes to Ranger!

[Rai]

RNG is a job I wanted to level since day one. I chose to level PLD first as my path to 75 and planned on taking RNG next then NIN then WAR. Now I'm not sure, and it's not because of the update. It's because since around level 58 many RNG's have been a source of disgust for me.

I have been in forming parties where RNGs have insisted I be kicked in favor of a NIN to tank so they can get better EXP. I have been in parties where RNGs have disbanded 20 minutes into the party when they have gotten an offer from an arrow burn party. I have been in parties were RNGs have disbanded when the party did not go to the location they wanted to EXP. It has been the terrible attitudes of too many RNGs that have ruined the job.

It has only been in these later levels that I had realized that RNG was overpowered. It is a fact, I don't care about gil per level, I care about balance and common sense. I parsed my RNG parties and in the last one I did 62% of the total damage, that is rediculous. Balance, it wasn't there, plain and simple anyone who denies this is lying. Why are there MNK DRK DRG SAM, why not just have RNG replace these other jobs.? Common sense tells me getting hit by a Sythe would hurt a hell of a lot more than an arrow. An arrow might be deflected by armor a sythe will hit with more force and would do more trauma as it is designed to create a gash wound.

So many people taking RNG to 75 as first job, how can it be, I know I couldn't. I have RNG over 40 and use it for BCNM but seals are not easy to come by. I saw RNG as a reward job much like NIN for people who had invested time in other jobs. But I feel people have abused the power of RNG.

I still like the game, it's always been some of the people that have annoyed me, if some of these people quit over this I won't be bothered by it much. Respect for the job needs to be brought back.

[Omni]

definitely... should have adjusted the dmg modifiers or accuracy of other jobs to make them more suitible for rng dominated activities rather than keeping other jobs the same and diminishing the effective output of rng.

i guess other jobs might 'out dmg' rng now but this doesnt mean your job has improved. all it means is that the bar has just been lowered now, making the gap less drastic. other melee jobs STILL have their issues. drk will still need to sub thf and strap on every acc. gear known to man thus, limiting their innate dmg dealing potential. drk has so much potential to do great dmg but the necessity to sub thf and waste equip spots on acc, just hold the job down. drg will still only be decent dmg dealers w/ sub par weapon skills. they will still be using lv. 14 battle gloves for some 60+ lvls. wvyrens will only last until the first decent aoe atk. so on and so forth.

i think if they improved other jobs like drk and drg and making them more effective to pre-patch rangers, it would have made the game more enjoyable for ALL players rather than keeping the same problems for players that already have gripes and then adding another set of players to that bunch.

[Intensity]

I still like the game, it's always been some of the people that have annoyed me, if some of these people quit over this I won't be bothered by it much. Respect for the job needs to be brought back.

Respect? Where in your post do you show any respect? All I got from it was how you're pissed off at the rng's who've had bad party etiquette. I see nothing but negativity for the whole rng community, because you've had bad experiences with a few. I've never left a pt to join an arrowburn, I'm staticed with my rng with my roommate and wife's BLM and BRD.

It is a fact, I don't care about gil per level, I care about balance and common sense. I parsed my RNG parties and in the last one I did 62% of the total damage, that is rediculous.

Of course you don't care about gil per lvl. You know why? Because you don't have to pay it. Balance and common sense? What balance is there to taking what was DESIGNED to be the most damaging job in the game and making it on par with people who have to work half as hard for the equipment they use to exp. That's what you people are forgetting. RNG was designed to be more damaging than every other job. If we were to be equal, why wouldn't SE have made it cost gil to swing a scythe? Or made ammo unlimited. As for the parsing and you doing 62% of dmg per scrap, you're saying that the total dmg done to a mob in a fight, 62% of it was done by you? Yeah, that is ridiculous. You're a paladin, you're dmg should be negligable compared to any other dmg dealer. And you're dmg should be non-existant in comparison to what should be and always has been the most dmg'n job in the game. Why can't you people recognize that? What would you say if your cures recovered half the HP they normally do? Because that's what's happening to us. The one defining factor of our jobs has been nerfed to the point that we've become ineffectual. Personally, I have faith SE will rectify this, but until that, I'm going back to lvl'n samurai. I also think I'm gonna quit reading this thread already because it makes me sick to death of paladins for some reason.

Double Post Edited:

i think if they improved other jobs like drk and drg and making them more effective to pre-patch rangers, it would have made the game more enjoyable for ALL players rather than keeping the same problems for players that already have gripes and then adding another set of players to that bunch.

omfg someone with sense. Ask me if I'm surprised it came from a nin and not a paladin.

[Omni]

omfg someone with sense. Ask me if I'm surprised it came from a nin and not a paladin.

hehe, well, they DO get whacked in the head for a living. ^^ jk.

[Macht]

Caspian,

The sweet spot for that extra damage I was doing is pretty difficult to get. Its the only spot I've found that's extreemly picky on distance, though an indicator to the spot I've found is just before getting into it your accuracy crashes horribly. I found that out while trying to figure it's location better and I missed a barraged along with 6 other shots. I took a 1/2 step back from there and then I suddenly was hitting more accuratly and my damage was well beyond normal.

I actually got off a 800+ Flaming Arrow in that spot, it was so sweet especially when on those monsters I usually only got like a 250+ Flaming Arrow. The location is hard to describe in terms of steps back, since I've focused since day 1 of being a RNG on the compass. I know down to a T how far a visual monster aggro's and how far a sound based monster aggro's by the compass.

In following that I used the compass to give me visual que of if I'm in the right spot or not. For the spot what you do is Line the target to were it's right between the border lines that indicate the 3rd ring. Normal damage on Bow ends up somewere around the 2nd ring. Beyond that on the 4th ring accuracy tends to crap out badly along with the damage, the anoying thing I see about it now is that I can't solo Worms anymore since their spell range is in the 4th ring so being able to back out quickly to avoid a few spells is impossible. Well not entirely "can't do it now" it's still possible, just more annoying now.

[Keyura]

...close to the luxury of playing ranger pre-patch...

luxury is a good word there, cause thats what rng's dmg output has been, a luxury. RNG has had changes to it that are pretty bad, i don't doubt that, but i think they aren't as horrible as it seems. RNG has always been *can still do dmg to something higher level* well, if they can still do good dmg on stuff regular melee do good dmg on, they aren't completely useless. and as everyones joking, theres always still blm, hell i'd like to see more manaburns. SE will probably end up returning some of hte dmg output rng has, but if they changed the compass to make a sweet spot easy to find, they have to be at least trying.

[Rai]

Originally Posted by 1nt3ns1ty
Of course you don't care about gil per lvl. You know why? Because you don't have to pay it.

If I'm not paying for RNG when I change to RNG/NIN and go out and level then who the hell is? Are you an idiot? Can you not understand as a 39 or 41 RNG I did 62% of the damage. The party was NIN/WAR NIN/WAR RNG/WAR RDM/BLM WHM/BLM RNG/NIN(me). Get your head out of your ass and read a post, look at a sig and think! MY RNG PARTIES = ME AS RNG.

I have bought every +1 Bow and crossbow up to lvl 50, +1 Noct gear, Camped LL and VE until I got the drops all for RNG. I've capped Archery, Marksmanship and Dagger. I wanted to be the best RNG I could be. When I go out to level RNG I carry 3-4 stacks of Acid bolts, 2 stacks of Bloody bolts, 4-6 stacks of Holy Bolts, 2 stacks of Mythril bolts, 3-4 Stacks of Scorpion Arrows, a stack of Squid Sushi, a stack of Sole Sushi and a stack of Rice Dumplings and 2 stacks of Shihei.

--->http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?91461<---

[Intensity]

You didn't specify genius. You started talking from the viewpoint of a paladin, then jumped into "Parsing my rng parties". I took that to mean that post patch your rparties with rng's in them were the example you were using. Rather than claiming my head is in my ass, try to be clearer before you decide to rant.

The party was NIN/WAR NIN/WAR RNG/WAR RDM/BLM WHM/BLM RNG/NIN(me).

So, let us all get this straight because your supposed "Parser'd numbers" don't add up. You're saying in the above pt setup your parser said you're doing 62% of the dmg? So as rng/nin, not only were you out damaging the rng/war in your pt, but lets say that this SUPER gimped rng/war you were outdamaging was doing 12% less dmg then you. That would mean your 2 nin's and the rdm are doing zero damage? 1: No way you were outdamaging a rng/war by that margin, maybe if he was using squid sushi and you were dosed on curry. And that's just saying he's doing all the other damage and the rest of pt is doing 0. How did your 2 nin's hold hate when they weren't doing any damage? This, as I said in another of my previous posts, is an example of outright b.s. from people who don't main rng. You're creating false numbers to support a false idea.

[Rai]

I have to find the other parse, http://home.comcast.net/~k.gav/03-11-2005.html

Retribution was RNG/WAR. But I must not have out danaged him...

81 fights 43.67% damage delt, no that's not over powered.

[JP_Ikari]

What I wanna know is, what was the intent of SE for the ranger job? NIN's were pullers that turned into tanks that I feel will soon fall back into that category as soon as SE figures out more on how to limit them from being able to tank.

Yes, while you guys did damage (to the point of it being rediculous), was that what SE intended the RNG's to be, or is that what every player made the RNG to be. Yes the game has been out for so long and yes I do understand on how much money and time spent by any RNG's out there. But we also have to realize, why the hell did the RNG's do so much damage that they're even favored over BLM's on certain parties or even HNM's. SW's and SS's doing over 1k damage, you gotta be kidding me right. Where a BLM gets lucky getting a 1k off a damn burst.


I'm not here to call RNG's whiners, cry-babies and the like. All I'm wondering is, what did SE intended RNG's to be. And if you guys can give me that definite answer then maybe you guys can understand why they did this change. Penta (multi-hit) tp nerf was put in cause it made certain classes overpowered. While the change with NIN is somewhat insignificant, it made their job a little more harder cause of the fact that they will start using all of their tools now to keep hate (and have a THF or /THF to TA off them at least from what everyone is telling me, correct me if I'm wrong here).

A petition is nice, but it will fall into deaf ears. But I remember reading an interview through Warcry a few months back, where the developers said post up in Warcry cause they do read it. Why not post there about what you guys really feel about the change. May be small, but it's a start. I do understand where both parties are comming from and I do wanna say to everyone that's calling the RNG's whiners that, isn't that a bit harsh?? That's all.

JP

P.S. With this change, I was just curious as to why SE didn't give any of the tanks a better tanking capability vs kiting certain HNMs. Cause I mean that's a huge concern seeing that the sweet spot only works when the mob is stationary.

[Intensity]

Let me get this straight. In a party of 2 rng's, 2 nin's, a rdm and a whm, you wouldn't expect the 2 only DD classes in the party to do majority of the damage? Funny, could have sworn that was the point of a "Damage dealer". Please someone correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't a rng doing 43% of damage in a party with 2 tanks and 2 casters seem right? Especially when neither of the casters is a BLM.

And also, I'm not surprised after my cry of bullshyt that the percentage of damage you dealt dropped 20%. Seems a little more reasonable of a number.

Like I said, what do you expect the percentages to be when you're in a party with 2 tanks and 2 casters? Someone has to be killing the mob.

I also see in your parser that between the 2 of you, both rng's did 63% of all dmg throughout the 81 battles. TOGETHER. How does that not add up? What do you expect the numbers to be? The whole point of DD's, and this goes for SAM/DRK/DRG, is to do the majority of the damage dealt to the mob. Hmmmmm. Let's look at that word, Majority. Majority, as in Most, as in more than half.

/em looks @ parser stats

Okay, 63%. That, if I'm not mistaken, would be considered the majority of the damage, spread between the only 2 DD's in the pt. Not all, not even close to 3/4 of the damage. 2 out of the 4 people in your pt, we're doing 63% of the damage. Now, if we exclude the whm, since they're not gonna be putting out big damage percentages, that means that 2/5 of the jobs in your pt are doing 3/5 or so of the damage to the mob. Now, this might seem SLIGHTLY more damage than average, if you didn't count the fact that one of the 5 is a RDM who aren't exactly prone to huge damage numbers. So where does this math not make sense to you?

If you can show me a pre-patch parse that say had a pt setup of nin/sam/drk/rdm/whm/rng, and the rng was doing 43% of the dmg, that might be slightly excessive. But I doubt that'll ever happen.

[ruffrydasean]

hey... where do ya get the parser dealy bob.. i wanna see how useful/useless i am...

[csBahamut]

Let's compare,

Damage on Kirin

Pre-patch:
RNG/NIN: 90, miss, 108, 101, 98, 99, miss, 102, 102, 100, Slugshot: 600+ = ~1400
in the same time period...
DRK/THF: miss, 0, miss, 0, 5, 20, 0, miss, miss, 10 = ~50(benifit of the doubt)
if they happen to have TP, add a 700-900 SATA+Spinning Slash, but it takes a DRK/THF a lot longer to get TP on Kirin

Think RNG was overpowered? They more than DOUBLED any onther melee's damage output. They allowed HNM LSes to kill Kirin in under 45 mins, when it takes 1-2 hrs using melees. Games are supposed to be a challenge. Where's the challenge in killing Kirin in under 45 mins by spamming arrows and blinking with Utsusemi too?

Post-Patch
RNG/NIN: 40, miss, 35, miss, 43, 41, miss, 37, 32, 38, 39, Slugshot: 250+ = ~650
in the same time period...
DRK/THF: miss, 0, miss, 0, 5, 20, 0, miss, miss, 10, 2 = ~50(benifit of the doubt)
if they happen to have TP, add a 700-900 SATA+Spinning Slash, but it takes a DRK/THF a lot longer to get TP on Kirin

So a RNG/NIN STILL outdamages a melee on Kirin by more than double, plus RNG/NINs still have Utsusemi to save them. You're still getting your money's worth by outdamaging melees.

And don't even complain about outdamaging melees in exp parties. Any DD could outdamage RNG on exp mobs. That's mainly because RNGs could not go all out, like they can on Kirin or HNMs(where utsusemi saves their butt).

I'm starting to wonder if most of the people complaining about RNG changes are the ones who bought gil and sped RNG to end game.

So you don't outdamage melees by 10-20x's anymore, big whoop. Live with it. You've been balanced.

[Intensity]

/sigh Yeah, paladins disgust me. It's official.

[DakAttack]

I don't understand why it's so hard to understand. You've been equalized, balanced, brought down to the same level; we're all pretty much the same now. Paladins disgust you because one of them posted his findings on Kirin? Man, Rangers are such sore losers.