f.ck guns!!!!

[Thegod]

i had this at the bottom but realized maybe my post is so long alot would miss

MY FRUSTRATION WITH GUNS IS: their WS damage is limited by something, a bow user doing sidewinder will hit for higher dmg even if your owning him by 30 on per hit damage....dunno how to explain it though.



he was 1 level higher then me...

yeah i know im kinda overdoing it on rng accuracy, but i figured(before actually obtaining both+1 daggers i figured this) if i could get maxed agi and rng accuracy (the most possible agi/rng accuracy combo) and then if i ate sushi i could let of my slugs go literally as soon as i hit 100% tp (witch i can with sushi if theres someone else who can keep up w/ the rapid tp gain, witch means sam or /sam or rng and some uber thfs and mnks can keep up)

anyway im not 63 yet, so maybe thats wut my problem is, i just dont see how rangers faught tormas at level 61 with no sushi.....

i mean seriously only a peacock charm would make me more accurate and i miss more then im comfortable with w/o sushi.

someone here did say i would miss against those mobs at that level (i'd call myself 62, but i dont even have marks or archery capped for 62 yet)

So i quess my set up from now till fransisca is

hawers+1 x2
AF hat
genin + drone
scorp+1 ring x2
amemet+1
r.k+2

jaged gorget <---gonna try tonight with this set up but spiked necklace instead*

republic pants
JSE body
savage gaitors
must+2 + silvers
mage's cuffs



so yeah fransisca in one level will be nice, and besides that shyt i guess i have to wait till triumph earring to be equipable

do you guys think its a waste to equip minuet earring over a drone for only 1 str and 1 dex???

and would i gimped my def too badly by wearing garrison hose instead of republic pants or nocts?

[imac2much]

Originally posted by Thegod
i dunno how you rangers did it w/o sushi a while ago, because its just too great not missing

With good gear and a BRD's love (prelude), my rng hit % was consistently 80-88% on IT, 75-85% on IT++, and 85-90%+ on VT's. With smart timing you will always have either a sharpshot or a US+PPA ready for WS, making them very very rarely miss. This is all with just with meat mithkabobs.

Now I wonder... if I used sushi, how much would my rng hit% have increased? At the very most, on IT's and VT's, around 10% (max, since you can't exceed 100%). Now let's be reasonable, you'll never reach 100% hit rate, so I'd guess sushi would increase my hit% at MOST by 5% , especially on VT's. Now to make sushi better than meat mithkabob (before its effect was changed), my damage must drop no less than 5% or so... In other words, before the food patch, did meat mithkabobs increase my damage by more than 5%? Hell yes, they did. So for my PT setup it would seam +rng atk food would be better.

Now I don't know how yellow curry or any other +rng atk food compares to meat mithkabob, especially with the new rng atk "caps", so maybe someone else can elaborate.

Also, for very hectic playstyles (people who do really high chains), I can see how rng acc food is better... since you will probably be using WS's faster than US and SS can refresh. Also, this may relieve some pressure on the BRD, since they can use another AE song (like another minuet) instead of spamming prelude individually on each RNG whenever the recast is up.

As for gun vs bow, I think most of the points have already been covered, especially this one: wait til hellfire. Things change a lot. Stronger barrage (bow users can't use PPA for barrage), comparable WS, faster TP gain (thanks to instant abilities like barrage and WS's that still give back TP based on weapon delay).

[kowboy]

Apparently mithkabobs and chiefkabobs have no Ranged Attack bonus after the food patch.

[Apple Pie]

dunno some of you may recall my complaints w/ curry for a while not raising my dmg enough

Unless you have a considerable amount of RATK, you don't see an improvement.

Both ATK and RATK are related to multipliers, PDIF, that multiplies the fixed damage based on fSTR and weapon's base damage. PDIF is determined by the ratio between your ATK/RATK and target's DEF. What you should understand is PDIF isn't in a direct proportion to this ratio. It decreases or increases like a stairstep.

You may sometimes notice that Acid Bolt doesn't improve your performance. This is because DEF down effect of Acid Bolt isn't enough to raise PDIF. This is the same as your case, thegod. You might fight with too strong mobs at that time.

I am not sure how much RATK Yellow Curry boosts (those numbers like "+32%" is just a speculation, BTW) but remember that hume RNG also got some RATK from his bow. I always use Crossbow and eat Boiled Cockatrice when the difference of LV between myself and the strongest mob is 10 or less. I currently have +40 RATK from my gears (Heavy Crossbow +1, Hunter's Beret, Ranger's Necklace and Amemit Mantle +1) and Boiled Cockatrice always makes a difference.

If the LV difference between me and the strongest mob is greater than 10, I eat Sole Sushi. What's great for ranged attack is the minimum number of PDIF is 1.0 while it can be 0.0 for melee. That's why Sidewinder/Slugshot still does a good amount of damage.

[Narmo]

"If you can't beat them, join em"

Why don't you just copy what the other RNG wears? Then you don't have to keep on complaining.

IMO:

Eurytos' Bow > Hawker's Knife +1 (x2) + Jagd Gorget.

If you can't find anyone to sell the Eurytos' Bow to you, keep trying. Eventually, someone will put it up on the AH. (I found a well-known JPN crafter who had Haubergeon +1, bought it off her, and now the damn thing is on the AH. Currently two are on the AH).

Eurytos' Bow + Demon Arrows + Yellow Curry = {Please invite me.}

[Thegod]

yeah everyone in my LS keeps telling witch gears are better then hawkers+1

but then i hear, dont buy ebow (even if its the best non relic weapon a ranger can use period, they said that assuming it was not really wanting to argue about it) unless you have all the other stuff and can still afford it and afford to level a bunch w/o stopping.


so now im almost to that point, but yeah i'd agree

ebow >> hawkers+1 (x2)

no am mantle+1 when i used sushi and was complaining.....i took off my Af hat when i used sushi that night, and dmg dropped 10 points per hit, so yeah w/ curry i'd max out my rng attack for sure.

partied last night, and sushi is amazing, dunno why i let 750 slugs get me down, yeah they r 750, but they never miss, i honest to god, in 3 hours of partying do not recall missing a single slugshot.....seriously

oh and i worse mage cuffs and republic pants this time to absoltely have the most possible AGI you can have with no agi back piece.

I loved it, having a crazy high hit % is much better then a 1k+ slug imo, i mean the sharpshot>>barrage>>slug>>ranged attack>>melee hit>>slug combo works amazingly great when you can actually depend on landing a melee hit because sushi ups melee acc as well.


no more complaints about dmg from me, im using sushi no matter what it just makes no sense to risk missing multiple WSs because of dmg that thats even there, you miss once, sushi user caught up, twice and sushi user now passed you.


I do not like guns though, im so over them right about the time their damage got gimpy on WS, i wanna go bow really badly, just need that dam ebow or it's pointless spending the same amount of gil on ammo using a warbow, when i could use a gun.


thnx for replys

[Kibogaoka]

Originally posted by Thegod
being mithra is fine, you just have to play it a tad differently..

I don't understand that, what's different? Focus less on AGI and more on STR? :sweat:

[Elsurion]

Jup, Mithra lacks in the STR Department, while Elf lacks the AGI Departement.

So Mithra should keep an eye on the STR while Elf has to look at the AGI Department. Seen last night a Gun (lv52 +1) Slug for around 600 while my X-Bow (Lv50 +1) made 500 Slug on Darters or was it a Crawler. Equip was AF except my Boots (Winged)

Since Slug is mainly AGI Based with some STR Mods.

[Thegod]

it had to do with the food i was eating, mobs i was fighting, and lvl rng.

im 5k till lvl 70 now...

guns still arnt very good at lvl 69, obow and ebow demolish them by a great amount.


anyway yeah gun's suck man, not worht the xtra gil spent to do meanial dmg at a high rate of delay.


but they were exstremely fun, and do do as much dmg as the uber weapons for a small period of time.

i'd guestimate 52-59 as the optimum lvl rng for a gun user.


hellfire is in my mog waiting for me to get 5k cxp.

[Macht]

Originally posted by Thegod
it had to do with the food i was eating, mobs i was fighting, and lvl rng.
im 5k till lvl 70 now...
guns still arnt very good at lvl 69, obow and ebow demolish them by a great amount.
anyway yeah gun's suck man, not worht the xtra gil spent to do meanial dmg at a high rate of delay.
but they were exstremely fun, and do do as much dmg as the uber weapons for a small period of time.
i'd guestimate 52-59 as the optimum lvl rng for a gun user.
hellfire is in my mog waiting for me to get 5k cxp.

Yes, Guns at lv. 50 - 55 is actually the best. Then you get that fluke of the E-Bow which easily overpowers guns till about lv. 71 or 72. Then the Silver Bullets along with those guns end up reigning supreme again in damage. Especially a fully upgraded dynamis gun.

Between X-Bows, Bows, and Guns each have their best moments when they are better then the other two. Also though it does end up being situational to what you fight, for example the Promyvions areas. The X-Bow with Acid Bolts and Holy Bolts work extreemly well on the Empty, but are horrific against Memory Recepticles it's much better to use a Bow/Gun against those.

[Thegod]

Macht im not being sarcastic just being serious to find out when i should sell my ebow if ever.


do you have osode, sery kote and duel triumph earrings?

i hear just like the must+2 the hellfire caps out in ws damage and since bows do not the ebow with above mentioned equip breaks that cap.

[Macht]

Originally posted by Thegod
Macht im not being sarcastic just being serious to find out when i should sell my ebow if ever.


do you have osode, sery kote and duel triumph earrings?

i hear just like the must+2 the hellfire caps out in ws damage and since bows do not the ebow with above mentioned equip breaks that cap.

I haven't gotten any of that yet, but if you are just looking at Raw stat I think it's more of personal prefference. At a straight look though E-Bow is the best till about 71, then Gun is the best unless you've gotten Yoichinoyumi.

If you have that Bow then might as well Ignore Guns the rest of the way and stay with E-Bow till 75. In a straight out shoot fest (considering that Rapid Shot not once activates) then the Bow is going to have more DPS, but if Rapid Shot is factored in then the Gun user would only need Rapid Shot to activate only 1 time to match damage if a Bow activates Rapid Shot 3 times.

Not only will they exceed in DoT then but because of the delay the Gun (especially if you got Annihilator) is going to be able to use a WS every what 2 or 3 hits as opposed to Yoichinoyumi needing 4 or 5.

I personally am sticking with E-Bow till I get Yoichinoyumi then I might either sell it or have it for lv. 60 restricted areas. I do plan to also get the Annihilator (Got to love how much money all those Dynamis Weapons are going to cost ) in case I do figure out how to get Rapid Shot to activate more frequently the merit points for it might be a good start >.>

[Thegod]

i have decided to keep my ebow untill i can get 20 mil for it (current price is 12 mil)

IMO 20 mil is a nice big price i can use to buy hellfire+1 shingetto+1/gend+1 and still have gil left over for another triumph earring, maybe a serkit ring or an elemental earring for blm.


or i just wont sell it, i told a couple ppl, who keep askin me to sell it because the last 7 sells after mine have been JPs, that i would sell for 20, they laughed, but my point is i kinda never wanna sell it, but 20 mil is too much to pass up.

[imac2much]

Personally, if you don't need the money, I'd just keep it. I did end up selling mine once I got o-bow, knowing that I would just switch to guns anyway... but that's also because I knew I was quitting (bought bunch of stuff to give my friends as gifts). E-bow may not necessarily be the best bow endgame, but there is enough grey area/doubt to make it worthwhile to keep it. From what I've seen, hellfire+1 outplays e-bow in some ways, but keep in mind it's not always about straight up damage.

Sometimes you don't necessarily want to shoot lights out (if main tank is building aggro, etc). Yet you need to make sure your WS's hit for skillchains... e-bow will be damaging and accurate with US+PPA for weapon skills. Honestly e-bow is one of the few "niceties" of the RNG job that is even remotely worth the price.

For xp'ing, hellfire in many ways outshines previous guns, due to the higher barrage TP% it gives. Until 75, this is the only way to get 100+% TP with one fully hit barrage. Since many things you fight at those levels will be VT or low IT to you, you just want to kill them ASAP. Slug->barrage->slug is a nice way to do that.

However, one thing to note. If guns have a damage cap for WS, so do bows. They both follow the same similar damage formulae (albeit with different values for the variables, but the formula in essence is the same). If bows do higher WS damage than guns, it's not because they lack a damage cap that only guns have.

[Macht]

Originally posted by imac2much
Personally, if you don't need the money, I'd just keep it. I did end up selling mine once I got o-bow, knowing that I would just switch to guns anyway... but that's also because I knew I was quitting (bought bunch of stuff to give my friends as gifts). E-bow may not necessarily be the best bow endgame, but there is enough grey area/doubt to make it worthwhile to keep it. From what I've seen, hellfire+1 outplays e-bow in some ways, but keep in mind it's not always about straight up damage.

Sometimes you don't necessarily want to shoot lights out (if main tank is building aggro, etc). Yet you need to make sure your WS's hit for skillchains... e-bow will be damaging and accurate with US+PPA for weapon skills. Honestly e-bow is one of the few "niceties" of the RNG job that is even remotely worth the price.

For xp'ing, hellfire in many ways outshines previous guns, due to the higher barrage TP% it gives. Until 75, this is the only way to get 100+% TP with one fully hit barrage. Since many things you fight at those levels will be VT or low IT to you, you just want to kill them ASAP. Slug->barrage->slug is a nice way to do that.

However, one thing to note. If guns have a damage cap for WS, so do bows. They both follow the same similar damage formulae (albeit with different values for the variables, but the formula in essence is the same). If bows do higher WS damage than guns, it's not because they lack a damage cap that only guns have.

The damage cap Bows/Guns have is the gray area though I haven't seen to much logic to answer it. A Bow most of the damage potential you get from it is the Bow itself, with a Gun though most of the damage potential is the bullet being used.

So if the damage caps or potentials are measures by Ranged slot only then the Bow will have a massive one (About 2x that of the Gun) that probably won't be reached to easily and the Gun will have a limited one reached very quickly. The counter balance to this is that the Gun is capable of doing more WSs faster. So even if a Gun caps at say 1,200 damage and the bow is doing 1,500, between each WS that the two can do the Gun can basically get 2 WS to the Bows 1 which means the Gun is really getting 2,400 damage.

Of course you still have to take into account the hate being drawn, so the Gun using that full potential like that is tougher to do.

EDIT:

Idea is basing were the RNG is still trying to not draw hate to themselves.