melees and hnm an gods

[Capathyst]

one of hte main reasons i want to play ffxi is hdoing hnm and gods and stuff like that but what i hear melee isnt good for these? is this true? if it is how can i be a good melee for hnm/gods/etc ?

[TheMidg]

DRK stay in for Stun.
RNGs stay in because they're the best melee to be in battle.
MNKs are subbed in for Chi Blast
All other melee subbed in for spirits within

Hope this was useful.

[Sheng]

What about PLD and WAR ?

From what I read, PLD are in for tanking/kiting and so are WAR.

[Uroboros]

PLD main tanks, and are the most consistent/easiest tank option on really hard mobs. WAR can main tank HNMs but it requires more work and more of a team effort than a PLD tanking so most shells don't do it. It's doable though. WAR/NIN is probably the best kiter due to having both a strong provoke and blink, and WAR/THF can DD as well as any melee/THF can.

[TheMidg]

He was asking about melee, not tanks.

[Sheng]

I'm sorry TheMidg, WAR and PLD are indeed melees, unless you consider them as mages...

[Uroboros]

Originally posted by TheMidg
He was asking about melee, not tanks.

Originally posted by Sheng
What about PLD and WAR ?

From what I read, PLD are in for tanking/kiting and so are WAR.

[Blood Red Poet]

Uh....

WARs are a hybird of tank/damage dealer.

Anyway here is how it works: Tanks(PLD NIN), Melee(DRK DRG SAM RNG* THF**), and Mages(WHM SMN BLM* BRD*** RDM***). WAR could be either tank or melee.

*-Often considered another group named "High-Dmg dealers"
**-Often considered another group named "Hate Control"
***-Often consider another group named "MP Refresher"

Thats how the game works, and how the game worked before you started playing. Midg(ardsormr!) is right.

[Kailea]

Tanks(PLD NIN)

I would not consider NIN as a tank..... the only reason NINs tank is because of Utsi and with out that they cant tank at all where as PLD and WAR can tank with out any skills other than voke

and I am sorry but RNG is not "melee" it is range, yes RNG does physical damage but it should not be called a Melee class. Melee is a term used for upclose combat...and that is defenatly what RNGs do NOT do.

it would be more like this....
Tanks: PLD WAR
Melee: THF NIN (does damage but not enuff to be called DD)
DD: SAM DRK DRG
Range: RNG
Magic: WHM RDM BLM SMN
Solo: BST

now this does not include WS or skills like Utsi because they are limited

[Pounce]

it would be more like this....
Tanks: PLD WAR
Melee: THF NIN (does damage but not enuff to be called DD)
DD: SAM DRK DRG
Range: RNG
Magic: WHM RDM BLM SMN
Solo: BST

So why is a THF and NIN a "melee" and a DRG/SAM/DRK A "damage dealer" and a RNG a "Range"? I'm sorry but that doesn't compute.

And NIN is a tank. It has some ability to deal good damage and debuff, but 99% of the time people will invite NIN to tank, and that by definition makes NIN a tank, no?

For that matter, at higher levels people will invite WAR as a DD more so than a tank.

Granted, it's really an issue of semantics.

Here's a better list, based on what people will invite various jobs for.

Tank: PLD, WAR, NIN
Melee DD: WAR, DRK, MNK, SAM, DRG, THF, RNG
Healer: WHM, SMN, RDM
Refresher: RDM, BRD

[Icemage]

*thinks the people below level 70+ who have never been on an HNM hunt should stop posting uninformed opinions based on lower level experiences*

Vs. Non-kited HNM:
Tank - PLD/WAR, NIN/WAR, WAR/NIN
Damage - RNG, BLM, SMN , non-/THF DDs
Damage/Hate Control - THF, and /THF DDs
Healers - WHM, RDM, SMN (and occasionally BLM)
Support - RDM, BRD, SMN

vs. kited HNM:
Tank - PLD/WAR, NIN/WAR, WAR/NIN
Damage - MNK, RNG, BLM
Healers - WHM, RDM, SMN (and occasionally BLM)
Support - RDM, BRD, SMN
Spectators - everyone else


Icemage

[ZQM]

Originally posted by Icemage
Damage - MNK, RNG, BLM
Spectators - everyone else

SAM/THF can do up to 1k every 6 minutes against kited HNM. Although not close to MNK, RNG, or BLM damage, that's still good damage (And obviously the /THF isn't there for hate control, but is there for the damage).

And ofcoarse there's sleep pots for other melees, but there's no need for that at all unless your loaded.

[kumaeru]

<3 war/nin tank on Kirin, Genbu, Suzaku. Makes it too easy to kill. All you need to stun is the ga's, and let the utsusemi eat the lvl 4 spells and ancients XD.

*thinks the people below level 70+ who have never been on an HNM hunt should stop posting uninformed opinions based on lower level experiences*

woo icemage hit the nail right there :p

Hate displacement with /thf is almost irrelavent besides doing more dmg on WS. Hate displacement with the /thf is usually only used on easier HNM/ lesser HNM's, or when there is only a few people required to take down an HNM efficiently. Thf sub is also used to get TP, because the hit rate on high HNM is rather low. Except that doesnt matter on Fafnir/Nidhogg...

The bulk of the dmg does goto Blm, Rng, Mnk on all HNM. I still do consider Drk dmg.. however comparitivly to the high dmg jobs, Drk can do a good amount of damage, but usually they are in just for the fact that they can do decent dmg and stun ><;

tbh.. Thief is in for 2 reasons.. TH2/3/4 OR to fit a renkei so Blms can burst for more damage more often.

On Kited HNM.. ie. King Behemoth (which is usually a Spirits Within fight for most melees), or Kirin. Melees usually just follow around chasing after the NM attempting to hit it and gain TP for WS. Its not needed though, but it helps. I've seen Kirin go down very fast due to the amount of Rng and Blms available. Even some LS' just kite the 4 gods while Blms and Rng kill kirin while being kited and casting stone5/ga4.

To answer the question, if you want to be a "good" melee who is active in main alliance all the time, be a Rng. You can do high damage, be very helpful ie. throwing winds on gods, Shadowbinding if needed, and even tank some HNM/Gods if it's needed.


Also basically, if you need to use sleep potions or what not, then you/your LS probably isnt ready to be fighting that NM. I can see using remedies on jormungands aoe paralyze.. cause thats just really annoying, or antidotes for Serket maybe.

[sudo]

bst = solo....

hrm....

http://yarrthepirate.com/v-web/bulle...pic.php?t=2718


I really wish they change smn to where they can work vs Kited mobs as DD also. I mean having the mob move 5 feet and be out of range, bp timer wasted, MP sucked, and worse avatar stuck out, or avatar taking 30 seconds to get to the right distance cause of pathfinding stupidity really needs to be fixed somehow.

But ya in general icemage is pretty much correct.

though I'd like to change the "spectator" aspect of his job break down list because you will almost ALWAYS need extra non-allianced pts for add / agro control. Allianced brd's are not good enough vs a lot of HNM's extra agro.

Bst are very good at this job and it doesn't seem like anyone's remembered that they are needed for a few fights too. Not as DD of course (though our pets are decent DD in themselves , and yes, I mean HQ summoned broths, Not RNG super DD lv but not exactly off the map either. an IT spider on bst 2hr is a mighty nice pet too. I'm not sure who'd do more damage, Rng or IT spider... )

Spectators are going to be needed quite often for adds. One alliance won't be enough vs a lot of these things.

Oh ya, also for kited mobs, bst pets can run and hit the mob even if the mob is moving. Pets are not under the same contraints as pc's for melee hitting moving things.

[ZQM]

Originally posted by kumaeru
Also basically, if you need to use sleep potions or what not, then you/your LS probably isnt ready to be fighting that NM. I can see using remedies on jormungands aoe paralyze.. cause thats just really annoying, or antidotes for Serket maybe.

If that was pointed at me, I clearly mentioned it wasn't nessicary.

However, as a DRK v.s. Kirin (When Stun is void), you can either TP up quickly by Sleep Potions, or TP up a lot slower by normal hits. Which is better? Sleep potions, obviously.