SURPRISINGLY effective DRAGOON

[Silverquick]

Yeah you saw the title, now hear me out.

Of late I have gotten the opportunity to work with a Drg that actually made them a very worthwhile team member in an EXP group.

Drgs can dish out damage, we all know that, not ranger level damage, but damage nonetheless... something that was surprisingly effective not just in normal EXP groups but also even large raids.

Combo... Drg/Whm

This combo is incredibly effective in a group when fighting AE mobs.... AKA Darters in Boyadha, or Hobgoblins in Bibiki.

Dia is a low cost Whm spell costing 2 MP. However when any group member reaches half hit points, casting this 2 MP spell results in the Wyvern doing in essense a Curega II or III for the party. I know its right around 200 hps for each group member.

Its incredibly mana efficient and keeps your Whm from having to gain hate and saves a ton of MP. Plus surprisingly the Drg has enough Mana to cast a plain old Curega II as well.

I know what you're thinking... this means dead Drg right? Nope, their Super High Jump gets them out of trouble in no time flat.

I was shocked to have witnessed this be so effective.

It was actually worth spending a Refresh on that Drg because they were literally that effective at keeping the group alive.

And this doesn't even include the additional melee dmg from the Drg. Its one class combo that is worth inviting to your party in those situations.

I wonder has anyone else been able to see this in action besides me?

[Tokitoki]

Dia is 7 MP last time i checked >.>

Still MP efficient though

[GSDragoon]

Drgs can dish out damage, we all know that, not ranger level damage, but damage nonetheless... something that was surprisingly effective not just in normal EXP groups but also even large raids.

Ok, first of all, I play DRG/WHM quite a bit. I'm hoping to get a dark staff and erase because It's that much fun. You are severly gimped dmg wise with WHM sub. You do less per hit, plus you lose berserk and double attack.

Dia is a low cost Whm spell costing 2 MP. However when any group member reaches half hit points, casting this 2 MP spell results in the Wyvern doing in essense a Curega II or III for the party. I know its right around 200 hps for each group member.

As someone pointed out, Dia is 7 MP. Healing Breath III does not do curega (curing whole party). For me, it cures about 187-232 HP to a single person. It does not work in other parties in an alliance.

Its incredibly mana efficient and keeps your Whm from having to gain hate and saves a ton of MP. Plus surprisingly the Drg has enough Mana to cast a plain old Curega II as well.

In an EXP party. your going to be even more gimped if you have +MP gear. Electrum Rings over Sniper's while EXP'ing, NO THANKS. Also, for this to work you NEED The AF helm. lv70+ without the Optical Hat, another nono.

I know what you're thinking... this means dead Drg right? Nope, their Super High Jump gets them out of trouble in no time flat.

This combo is incredibly effective in a group when fighting AE mobs.... AKA Darters in Boyadha, or Hobgoblins in Bibiki.

This is where I STRONGLY dissagree. Sure the DRG can stay alive, but can the wyvern? DRG/mage with no wyvern is absolutely crap.

1 gob alone killed my wyvern at over 90% HP:


Darters in Boyad Tree SPAM thier AE for 250+ dmg to me. Wyvern has no chance. Another problem is healing away TP for MP, that's just stupid.


DRG/mage is mainly for solo. Though in the last skillup party I was in, I subbed WHM. I was fine with the AF helm and RSE pants, still keeping my sniper's for ACC. We had 2 BLM for curing so my extra cures came in handy, especially when the RDM convered right as a Quadav poped on him. Healing away TP then was perfectly fine.

[TheMidg]

This might actually worse than DRG/RDM.

[Silverquick]

No,

You miss the point here...

I actually saw it done, this isn't a what if scenario... it lasted and was effective. The Wyvern didn't die. until much later, but by that time the 2h had recycled and they summoned it again.

See that chain #4 in the pic you presented? I saw those even a few chain 5s.

The Wyvern did take damage, but it lasted nearly 2 hours through that kind of combat.

And the party itself kept on going with little lasting damage. While I am sure the Drg wasn't dishing out the damage possible with a Warrior sub... he did in fact save the party a lot of problems.

[GSDragoon]

I find it REALLY hard to believe the wyvern survived more than a few battles. Gobs sometimes like to pop a bomb at the begining of the battle and dish out HUGE dmg to everyone. My static tried Bibiki Bay at lv63, but our PLD tank was getting killed by the bombs. They would do over 850 dmg to him. I would summon my wyvern and he would be dead a few fights later. Spirit Link is every 3 minutes, not every 30 seconds. Our AF auto-regen so slow, it wouldn't make a difference either.

And the party itself kept on going with little lasting damage. While I am sure the Drg wasn't dishing out the damage possible with a Warrior sub... he did in fact save the party a lot of problems.

So... basicly your saying your mages wern't that good? We have a WHM, RDM and BLM and they could do their job just fine with the AE.


No doubt DRG/WHM is a fun and effective combo, but if you ask most DRG's, it's NOT for EXP parties. If you do a search, you'll find that out.

[Rogan]

Originally posted by GSDragoon


No doubt DRG/WHM is a fun and effective combo, but if you ask most DRG's, it's NOT for EXP parties. If you do a search, you'll find that out.

I would agree with that

[TheMidg]

Originally posted by GSDragoon
No doubt DRG/WHM is a fun and effective combo, but if you ask most DRG's, it's NOT for EXP parties. If you do a search, you'll find that out.

Well put.

[modnar]

Originally posted by GSDragoon


In an EXP party. your going to be even more gimped if you have +MP gear. Electrum Rings over Sniper's while EXP'ing, NO THANKS. Also, for this to work you NEED The AF helm. lv70+ without the Optical Hat, another nono.

Just wanted to point out that the original poster made no mention of having +MP gear instead of melee gear...

Mage sub does not mean any change to main job equipment.

Other than that, I do not wish to comment because I actualy don't know enough to open my mouth. :sweat:

[Rainsford]

As a drg/whm you can spam dia as long as you have refresh and pretty much you won't run out of MP if your sub is leveled, so you wouldent need to wear electrum rings or anything, but yea loseing optical hat sucks.. not saying its good for exp pts, but soloing modertly tough NMs, drg/whm and rdm/blm or brd/whm is pretty effective.

[Silverquick]

Originally posted by GSDragoon
So... basicly your saying your mages wern't that good? We have a WHM, RDM and BLM and they could do their job just fine with the AE.

Lol, ok thats enough putting words in my mouth, you may not like what I saw... but what I saw... was what I saw.

And no there was no "failure" of the mages. The Drg was just able to save the rest of them a ton of mana ...

...just like I said in the very beginning... that you must not have read or skipped over for some reason.

Now... this was supposed to be a discussion, not an insult fest.
Just because you don't like what I saw, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

If this was just some fluke then thats one thing, but your tone is not necessary.

[GSDragoon]

Originally posted by Silverquick
Lol, ok thats enough putting words in my mouth, you may not like what I saw... but what I saw... was what I saw.

And no there was no "failure" of the mages. The Drg was just able to save the rest of them a ton of mana ...

...just like I said in the very beginning... that you must not have read or skipped over for some reason.

Now... this was supposed to be a discussion, not an insult fest.
Just because you don't like what I saw, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

If this was just some fluke then thats one thing, but your tone is not necessary.

What I'm saying is that your mages shouldn't need help. If you want the best EXP possible, you have to kill fast. DRG/WHM will kill slower that DRG/WAR. Was the DRG/WHM replacing a WHM or what? What was your party setup?

Oh, and this is a discussion, just that I don't agree with you, that's all.

[Silverquick]

Are you saying... that someone who takes pressure off of me as a caster and frees me up to do other things with that mana... say... haste more people comfortably... and perhaps an extra nuke...

... is a bad idea and doesn't help at all?

I'm afraid I seriously disagree with that line or thinking.

[GSDragoon]

Originally posted by Silverquick
Are you saying... that someone who takes pressure off of me as a caster and frees me up to do other things with that mana... say... haste more people comfortably... and perhaps an extra nuke...

... is a bad idea and doesn't help at all?

I'm afraid I seriously disagree with that line or thinking.

Mages in my static have no problem keeping the meele hasted, cured, ect. Our RDM has me and the THF hasted at all times during fights, enfeebles, MB's , refreshes and nukes without a problem. I'm still wondering what your party setup was.

[csBahamut]

The idea is to kill fast. Sometimes the best defense is a good offense. The faster the mob dies, the less damage the tank takes. Sure, DRG/WHM allows the mages to spend less MP in one sense, but they're going to be spending just as much due to needing to refresh the DRG/WHM, and heal the melee from AoE or attacks, all because the DRG is dealing less damage. Now, let's evaluate this. Pro: Party survivability and safety goes up due to additional healing. Con: Party takes more damage due to lower damage output from the DRG. Con: Slower killing speed means slower exp gain. Just because you see 250+ exp from every mob doesn't always mean you're getting fast exp. Sure, you might be able to hit a chain #4 or #5, but right after that, everyone with MP will probably be out of MP and need to rest up to full, or at least long enough to negate the larger exp per mob(note: there are exceptions, like multi-RNG parties with NIN tanks, but that's just abusing the system).

Now, if you have a crappy party, or just mages with bad MP management, or whatever else that requires you to need better survivability, the DRG/WHM might work. Just stay away from AoE mobs. The wyvern just has no chance, unless you want to sacrifise TP and EXP/hr. If you have good players, then you want to go with DRG/WAR. No other sub will allow DRG to kill faster than WAR sub. Sure, SAM sub allows you to do more WS, but at the cost of double attack, berserk, and better damage overall. The extra damage from WS most likely won't beat the damage output from a DRG/WAR. Same goes for DRK and THF subs. Sure, they can both make some big single hits, but not all damage is done in single hits. Regular attacks add up.

Your choice, do you need a crutch(WHM sub) or do you know what your doing(WAR sub)?

Note: This is all reference for exp parties only!