[Rushing]

Made by some japanese guy.
all levels will benefit from this info at some point.

http://woys.hp.infoseek.co.jp/forNA.html

[ruffrydasean]

Thank you I will print this and study this....not to be a joke, but the english is so broken it must be from a JP player:sweat:. Anywho...I'll be a better nuker for it now

[protoroc]

some points are wrong, after refresh, pld should NEVER sit, sitting pld means one less skillchain

[Trimpton]

Plds dont need to participate on most skill chains .. dmg dealers are allowed to do alot more dmg if pld has more mana to hold aggro meaning quicker kills and more mana.

Nothing really new to me but lots of nice info. I dont like the pull order I like just doing 4 straight IT mobs for chain 4 each over 200.

This guide could be used in alot of other MMORPGs too .. with a few exceptions.

Good post though, good info. Thanks

[Demetrios]

Most PLDs are perfectly able to hold aggro while participating in SCs. For the most part you should never sit heal for MP during an EXP chain, however, you can probably get away with it after #4 or #5 (or whenever your casters are drained of all mp.)

[Basher]

if a paladin(tank) is sitting, then you have downtime

if you have downtime, then you have a crappy PT

[Ajhev]

I find it disturbing when I hear people suggesting that PAL should never or rarely sit to maintain TP. For a PAL to correctly handle hate they must be able to regularly toss out a couple of heals or more each fight to maintain hate. A possible exception is when you have a secondary tank pulling and a THF using fuidama to pull hate onto the PAL tank as this can give the PAL a very high hate rating if successful and backed up with provoke. PAL are not hitters, they are tanks and their potential is better used by being #1 on the hate list. I've PT'd with some really good PAL and alot of PAL who can never keep hate. The good ones all know enough to request being excluded from skill chain so they can rest between pulls. I've been in more than a few PT's that we've had to drop a PAL because he refused to heal because his TP was too important. In fact being a Taru WHM I tend to get a little pissed when a PAL can't keep hate. Only takes about two to three good hitts from an IT to drop me with the net effect of dropping the entire PT's xp/hr. Keep this in mind and don't be afraid to tell your PT's to exclude you from skill chains. This will make the entire PT more effecient and everyone's job much easier.

Okay, think that's enough out of me for now :sweat:

[Zaptruder]

you guys should realise that the paladins hate comes primarily from the use of MP... for flash and cure, voke may be alot of hate, but it's not enough without the rest.

without decent amounts of MP, the paladins job is much more difficult... and in extreme circumstances, you might as well not bother getting a paladin if you can't wait for their MP to recharge.

[Miriamel]

Originally posted by Zaptruder
you guys should realise that the paladins hate comes primarily from the use of MP... for flash and cure, voke may be alot of hate, but it's not enough without the rest.

without decent amounts of MP, the paladins job is much more difficult... and in extreme circumstances, you might as well not bother getting a paladin if you can't wait for their MP to recharge.

Agreed. I encourage PLDs to sit. And this guide is nice, but it deals with the basics. Nice for starters, but if there is any character 40+ who has never heard of those basics, they should stop playing immediately and leave Vana'diel forever.

[protoroc]

DID I NOT SAY AFTER REFRESH! if your pld doesnt have enough mp then your rdm isnt refreshing her enuff...my pld friend never sits, always SCs, and ALWAYS has hate

[Deodorant]

In certain circumstances (read: thf in party for fuidama), then yes, refresh may enough. Or when you're lower level, and your attackers don't do enough damage yet.

In almost every other circumstance, refresh is not enough. Get a ranger in party for his 800 dmg sidewinders + 400 dmg renkei, or a blm with 1200 dmg MB, and a pld will have to spam flash and cure like crazy to get hate back (well a good pld would be doing this constantly during battle, but that's a different argument).

If you think refresh is so godly, go to terrigan and get your mages virus'ed by the raptors and go try relying solely on refresh for mp regen.

Also paladins should ideally not be in skillchains, because their TP charges a lot slower than the other attackers (if not, then your attackers suck).

[JamesX]

Like Miriamel already pointed out. The guide is for beginners. As is the intention of the writer when he/she first posted it on the VN board - Unfortunately I forgot his/her post name... it was during a discussion about WHM blaming WAR for not tanking right.

At the level of refresh I really hope people have learned enough to be able to adapt to different cirumstances and not follow a guide letter to letter.

Paladin if not recovering mana should sit.

If he is then don't.

There is no contention here.

[bside]

Originally posted by protoroc
DID I NOT SAY AFTER REFRESH! if your pld doesnt have enough mp then your rdm isnt refreshing her enuff...my pld friend never sits, always SCs, and ALWAYS has hate

Refresh gives a total of 150 MP over 2 min and 30 sec. but needless to say, sitting down between the battles helps heal more MP.

well, let's use some examples here;

Condition: PLD takes part in renkei, PLD's max MP is 250, current MP is 80, current TP is 130%, Refresh is intact, just finished battle and a puller has left to find a mob.

at this point, do we, PLD's sit down? YES. even w/ Refresh, YES. it's clear that we normally use more MP than Refresh gives back. and w/ 130% TP, but w/ 80 MP, we better sit.

now, let's suppose the condition changes as follows;

current TP -> 60%, but others have more than 100%, finished 3rd chain and rushing for the chain #4

at this time, we have a choice, whether we should sit down until the very last minute puller comes back, or not to sit to save TP. personally, i won't sit, due to the circumstance, mainly that we have the 4th chain coming up, and that we won't have time for PLD's TP to build up from 0 to make the chain.


it is true that when PLD takes part in renkei, we should save MP usage to minimal, so that we won't delay renkei any more than we should. but properly analyzing the current circumstance and deciding whether to sit or not is the PLD's job, and that decision is made far beyond one condition that Refresh is intact.

and what happnes if PLD never sits down just because u have Refresh? PLD's MP will be very low as u start the 3rd or 4th chain, and will have problems w/ holding the hate.

why ur friend is able to hold the hate without ever sitting? let me ask... is there a THF in a party? my guess is there is, and that's exactly why ur friend is able to hold the hate without ever sitting and still have enough MP. making use of it and saving MP is one thing, but that dones't apply to all the party setup.

[bside]

Originally posted by Deodorant
Also paladins should ideally not be in skillchains, because their TP charges a lot slower than the other attackers (if not, then your attackers suck).

fortunately, as u level even higher, this problem gets somewhat solved. while the Shield Break was weakened in the Dec patch, the accuracy in higher lvl's has been raised. of course, without Life Belt, our accuracy still sucks much, but w/ the belf put on, we usually don't have that much of problem to keep up w/ others' TP, at least as much as u r thinking. and of course, if BRD and/or SMN r in a party, PLD can get TP enough to keep up w/ others.

and this is true no matter what other melees' equipments r. in some cases, PLD's TP gets 100 before others do. (and this isn't that rare, either.) of course, that TP doesn't come solely from normal attacks; we get TP when we get hit.


until lvl 65, it is true that PLD rarely takes part in renkei (except for lower lvl's when PLD is just another melee), but as u learn Swift Blade at 65, things change a lot. and there r instances where PLD rather should take part in it, for better overall party performance. and when u reach 66 or 67, u'll kill skeletons (again) in Gustav, and the popular renkei there is Red Lotus Blade->Kumei (Howling Fists)->Dragon Kick, thus PLD starts the renkei. (note that the above renkei without the first RLB, or just the Kumei->Dragon Kick part does NOT chain, so PLD's participation is rather required.)

[tazirai]

as long as you keep it clean ill leave individual posts alone. it provides some good basic info all should see and help on.



Keep the flames non existant please.