Bait And Switch. Please Help!

[Snowball]

I'm ready and willing to go do this quest, since I really want the belt reward from it, for my thf. (just felt a bit awkward saying "my thief" there, since the game is very much created by SE and it belongs to them, but you know what I meant. Couldn't find an appropritae way to say it)

Been following 2 links on it, over at alla.
Here - : http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/quests...tok&fquest=706

And here - : http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.h...;num=57;page=1

I'd really like to get started on it, but I'm quite confused I think!
Is there anyone here who has done this quest who may be able to help me?

I'll just try explain what I'm confused about to make it easy for people to explain to me.

Someone on alla asked, why is there an 8 button combo if there are only 3 switches? This is what I'm very confused about, even after reading all the replies. *sigh!*

I've been trying to get my head around it, and this is what I think you need to do, though I'm not 100% sure.

I'll just take someone elses example from that link, and tell me if I have this right or not.

1. - Small Switch
2. - Medium Switch
3. - Large Switch
4. - Medium Switch
5. - Small Switch
6. - Large Switch
7. - Medium Switch
8. - Medium Switch

Now, I know that it's all pretty much random, but I just copied that from the link because I want to refer to it.

So anyway, from that example, "the small switch" is used twice.
So I operate the small switch 2 times.

The "medium switch" switch is used four times.
So I operate the medium switch 4 times.

The "large switch" is used twice.
So I operate the large switch 2 times.

Again.... I know it's just an example. But is that how it all works?

Also, say for e.g. the medium switch has to be operated twice.
Do you operate it twice..... but right there on the spot, one after the other?
Or do you have to use it once, then come back to it a second time when you have used other switches? (I'm sorry about that. Hope I didn't make it sound too confusing for anyone)

I think I understand everything else in this quest. It's just the order of the switches I maybe somewhat confused about.

[Mazon]

I know this quest well, as I repeat it every conquest week for more Skeleton keys on My current Main THF and my retired THF.

Read the information here:
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Bait_and_Switch

Also, another side note:
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org is your friend. I find most, if not the greater majority of my information on the wiki first.


Edit: Oh and to clear up your confusion:
There are 3 switches.
Large Switch, Medium Switch, Small Switch.

You need to deactivate these switches in a certain order to successfully deactivate the trap and obtain your reward. See a random switch order example below.

1. L
2. M
3. S
4. S
5. S
6. M
7. L
8. M

As you can see, the small switch must be deactivated in the third, fourth and fifth spot.
These are done one after another.

[Snowball]

Okay, I think I'm at least 50% sure on what to do.

Just something else I am unsure of.
I cannot correctly remember, but when you get the clues from the NPCs on what the order is, I think they say things like (just for e.g.) : switch 1 is the same as switch 5, or switch 3 is the same as switch 8. Something a bit like that I think.

If that's not right, then please could you (or anyone really) tell me the kind of things they might say in their clues/hints. This might help me.

If I was reading clues like the ones (as examples) I mentioned above, then I would have absolutely no idea which of the 3 switches were in which spots.

What is an example of what they would say in their clues, to tell you which is which please?

[Mazon]

There are 3 NPC's in Bastok Metalworks that will give you the clues needed to determine YOUR switch order.

Helmut
Hungry Wolf
Darha

Example of clues:
The first switch? I would activate the hardest switch to trigger first. (LARGE SWITCH)

The 3rdnd 4th and 5th switch are same. And the 1st and 7th switch are also the same.

The normal switch is activated 2nd 6th and Last. (MEDIUM)

1. = L
2. = M
3. = S
4. = S
5. = S
6. = M
7. = L
8. = M

It's a logic problem. You only need to speak to these 3 NPC's anything beyond that and you'll need to look over the wiki link I posted earlier.

[Snowball]

There are 3 NPC's in Bastok Metalworks that will give you the clues needed to determine YOUR switch order.

Helmut
Hungry Wolf
Darha

Example of clues:
The first switch? I would activate the hardest switch to trigger first. (LARGE SWITCH)

The 2nd 3rd and 4th switch are same. And the 1st and 7th switch are also the same.

The normal switch is activated 2nd 6th and Last. (MEDIUM)
1. = L
2. = M
3. = S
4. = S
5. = S
6. = M
7. = L
8. = M
It's a logic problem. You only need to speak to these 3 NPC's anything beyond that and you'll need to look over the wiki link I posted earlier.

In your post, you put "the 2nd 3rd and 4th switch are same."

Don't you mean 3rd, 4th, and 5th are the same, since you have all these 3 assigned to the "small" switch?

I'm still a bit unsure, but I think I have to use them in order like this.

Switch 1 = large.
Switch 1 is the same as 7 because it is used twice.
So I operate switch 1, twice in a row.

Switch 2 = medium.
Switch 2 is the same as 6, and 8 because it is used 3 times.
So I operate switch 2, thrice in a row.

Switch 3 = small.
Switch 3 is the same as 4, and 5 because it is used 3 times.
So I operate switch 3, thrice in a row.

Again, that' was just what I worked out from your example.

But I STILL don't understand!
There aren't 8 switches, so how the cripes do I work out which number is assigned to which switch???

The NPCs don't mention the size of hte switches in their clues, which is why I'm finding this so darn difficult to understand!

I was never any good at logic problems when I was at school.
Obviously it's too confusing, and was indeed one of my very weak points!

[Legal Fish]

Okay, first off, why not stick with default text color?

Anyway, it's not as hard to understand as you make it out to be. Really simple really.

People will tell you either the size of the switch or if multiple switches are the same. So like someone will say "Switch 5 is Small" and another one will say "Switch 2, 5, and 6 are the same", meaning 2, 5, and 6 are all small.

Another thing, I'm pretty sure there are more than 3 NPCs, but I don't tend to use them all. I think you can use the process of elimination for the type of switches. For example, if someone says "2, 5, and 6 are the same", then 1, 3, and 4 are not that type of switch ever. I MIGHT be wrong, since I have not done this quest in a long time.

[Mazon]

I don't know how to make the explanation any simpler than giving you the ffxclopedia link and giving you examples.

Yes, I meant 3rd 4th and 5th in my earlier post.

It's like a keypad combination for your home security system
You have all the numbers from 0-9 to use, but do you use them all? No.
You punch you key code in a certain order right?
Right.

Same idea here.

From my MADE UP ORDER earlier:

1. L
2. M
3. S
4. S
5. S
6. M
7. L
8. M

You touch the Large switch first
You touch the Medium switch next (2nd)
You touch the Small switch next (3rd)
You touch the small switch AGAIN (4th)
You touch the small switch AGAIN (5th)
You touch the Medium switch next (6th)
You touch the Large switch next (7th)
You touch the Medium switch next (last)

[Anaki]

the numbers you have beside the switch show the order of which they must be done in. not which switch they are. there are 3 switches in total. with 6561 different patterns to hit them in
1 small
2 large
3 small
4 large.

means you go and hit the small switch once. then hit the large switch once. then the small switch again but only once. and then the large switch again but only once.

in total both are hit 2 times.

but without knowing any of the clues myself i wont be able to help on what they mean.

[Lunaryn]

The missing NPCs are Folzen (near the kiln/large switch) and Striking Snake (in the Gunpowder Room). Folzen in particular only tells you how many times you have to press switches (this depends solely on the item you choose from Luto's list; e.g. for the Lucky Charm it will always be 8 times).

NPCs often refer to the Large Switch as "the hardest switch to operate" and the Small Switch as "the hardest switch to find"

In each switch cutscene, you'll have to distract a guard. There are some options that sometimes work, but for each situation there's one guaranteed to work. This depends somewhat on what item you chose when Luto offered, but since this is being approached for advancing THF, I'll assume you chose the Lucky Charm.

If the switch is guarded by Gentle Tiger, leave it to Luto. He's the normal guard who's eager to catch a thief.

If the switch is guarded by Militant Gale, leave it to Miledo. He's the normal guard who's laid back and just wants to be done with his duties.

If the switch is guarded by Pensive Beast, use the Lucky Charm. He will move on to guard somewhere else. He's the Lead Guardsman who wears special armor.

The first several times you use the Lucky Charm, a Tarutaru standing nearby will react. You will see him again at the end of the quest. He only appears the first time you do the quest with this particular item.

Note that while Luto says you should avoid the Lead Guardsman and he does tell you where he's going, you will need to encounter him anyway to complete the quest successfully. Ignore Luto's advice and simply use the Charm to ward him off.

[Snowball]

I just got round to doing this quest for the first time on this Sunday evening, and I must say, I found it quite long too. PHEW!!

But guess what?....... I failed it, 3 times in a row!
I think I understood the order of the switches from working out the clues from the 5 NPCs, and worked out in my mind (writing down the order on some scrap paper helped too) what they were, but there's something I don't quite understand here.

When I got to the 3rd switch, the mithra girl (I think it was Luto) told me it was the lead guardsman, but I didn't see him being accompanied by a taru, (like it says in the quest instructions) so I just assumed that he was unnacompanied, and so I chose to say something clever, and that I was waiting for a friend. (again.... like it says in the quest instructions) But the guardsman just said something to the fact that I was using that as an excuse, and can't I come up with anything better to say?

I don't understand why this isn't working for me?
It just feels like everytime I choose to say something clever, that I always get caught!

The instructions say that if it is the "main guard", then say something clever.
That's the same as the lead guard or head guard....... isn't it?

Does anyone know what I'm doing wrong here?

Also, when I got the message from the taru (Milendo or something. Can't remember the exact name) saying that he will have to help me later, I then precedded to try and locate Salim again, (he's the the start npc for this quest) but I could NOT find him anywhere!

Is he supposed to dissappear if you faill too many times?

Is this quest repeatable?
How long do you have to wait before you can do it again please?

[Snowball]

Just came back to say that I've just finished this quest, and finally received my Key Ring Belt. YAYYYY!!! *does a backflip*
So not much more help is needed here I guess.

BTW - Since this item/belt can dispense skeleton keys, which areas of the game have doors that you can use them on please?

[Ameroth]

BTW - Since this item/belt can dispense skeleton keys, which areas of the game have doors that you can use them on please?

Skeleton Key

Guide: Picking Chests and Coffers

Using the FFXI Wiki isn't hard.

[Snowball]

Skeleton Key

Guide: Picking Chests and Coffers

Using the FFXI Wiki isn't hard.

Ahh..... so they are only used for picking locks on chests and coffers then? No doors intended?

For some reason I thought you could use them on doors, but it seems as I was wrong,

Thanks for the info.

[Mazon]

Actually, there are two doors that I recall that you can in fact use these and any other lockpicking keys on.

The Iron Gates in the Phomina Aquaducts, and the Iron gates blocking your path for Corsair (the one you would normally use a Lamia Fang key for).

If not, if you thief is high lvl enough, I usually pop coffers in Kuftal and Garlaige, as the sum of the Gil earned from popping them nets me more than selling a stack of Skeleton keys on the AH.

That is of course, after I finished popping my AF Coffers.