[hongman]

It'll be tomorrow before i get to try now

Ill let you all know how it goes XD

[Murphie]

You should be fine. I fought them as RDM/BLM with just a RDM's regular arsenal of buffs and enfeebles and did just fine. I generally just meleed them down instead of trying to sleep/nuke. But that might have been faster (I was after skillups).

If you have an NPC, it can be a nice place for them to get some exp while helping make the fights a bit easier too.

I was there any time I had some spare time for weeks. I can't tell you how many Wespes I ended up killing. So good luck.

[Mhurron]

Originally Posted by Murphie

I was there any time I had some spare time for weeks. I can't tell you how many Wespes I ended up killing. So good luck.

That's why I just did Garuda. Well, that and doing a Prime Avatar was out of the ordinary for me at the time, killing random mobs wasn't so it was fun.

[Murphie]

I killed Garuda the other day. I haven't gone back to the quest NPC either. Hmmm. Of course, I already have a hornetneedle now.

But yeah. I seriously thought I was never going to get a Bee Larvae.

[Sabaron]

I did this a bit later in RDM life than you, but I will say this. /NIN is the wrong combination for this. Bees are either MNK mobs or have double or triple attack with a high proc rate--I'm not sure of which. The effect is that your shadows are pretty lackluster. Since I don't want to steer you wrong, do the following:

1. Determine the meme single hit damage that a bee causes you.
2. Subtract your Phalanx reduction.
3. Divide your Stoneskin pool by that.
4. The goal is to have Stoneskin recast (30 sec) up before/when the bee drops it via DoT.
5. Sub /BLU or /WAR and use Cocoon or Defender--this way you can use the higher-tier Weaponskills and speed up kills.

Bees hit fast and weak, so Phalanx is their ultimate enemy whereas Utsusemi is pretty much a waste of Shihei before Ni--your 6 shadows will last all of 10-15 seconds tops, but of course, depending on their actual duration and the amount of damage absorbed by your shield and boosted defense from your other sub, it might still be better to be /NIN (or just go /NIN and use a shield).

I wouldn't engage DFA at 60... Get a friend. Larvae are a pain to collect. Good luck on your needle.

Oh btw, just recently while farming Flickering Lanterns for the new Thief's Knife, I was struck dumb by a Temple Bee who decided to pop me with a Final Sting worth an unheard of 847 damage. I had Stoneskin up, but it must've been just under 50 left on it because with me keeping my HP in the yellow for my ring, he one-shotted me through SS even though on most shots a bee can't even get through my Phalanx (hit for 0 even if SS is down). In summary, watch out for Final Sting...

[Ghostraven]

skillup before you try this..

[Murphie]

I've been hit for Final Stings even higher than that, Sabaron. NOT FUN.

[tdh]

I would also suggest going and doing some Skill Ups before you attempt this solo. It's one thing to slowly whittle away at your enemy, it's another thing to slow try and blow them over from the wind of your missed swings. lol

When I was camping my coffer for my AF Pants I believe, I decided to try my hand at some soloing. I was past the 3rd Banishing gate in GC and knew that three Coffers pop'd back there. So I buffed up, walked around the corner, and pulled a Skeleton.

Swinging a Sword, making sure I had Blink, Stoneskin, Phalanx, En-spells, Ice Spikes, Haste and Refresh took a long time to kill the mob but I gained amazing Enhancing Magic Skill Ups, and Sword Skill Ups rained from above. So you're to the point where you can do your own Skill Ups with out having to jump into a group that's expecting you to keep everybody Hasted and healed.

By doing the solo Skill Ups is how I cap'd my Enhancing magic by Lv.70. Each level after that I could cap the skill before I leveled. But those last few levels of Lv.75 took quite a while. Possibly due to having stopped leveling so furiously.

[hongman]

Thanks people.

Murphie, I am prolly partial to some skillups too. Try to get em in where I can!

I am defiantely NOT planning to taking on DFA solo - I have more than enough people lining up to murder him for me, just none that wanna help farming!

And Final Sting was a concern...thats why I was asking if Utsu would mitigate the damage - but it certainly seems I would have enough trouble keeping shadows up with Ichi anyways so the benefits of /BLM outweigh /NIN. My WAR is underlvled and /BLU isnt even an option as its not unlocked!

Ill have a test run tonight to see how it goes. I know it wont be the fastest farm in the world but as long as I can do it consistently, Im golden. I REALLY want my hornetneedle!!!

[hongman]

After all this talk about Garuda's Dagger...

How does the 2 compare?

I definately want both, just wondered if the stats (comparison) on G Dagger and low delay on HN...how it works out?

Does G Dagger give a bonus on Wind type elemental WS's?

[Murphie]

Hornetneedle
Rare/Exclusive
(Dagger) All Races
DMG: 16 Delay: 150 DEX +1 AGI +1
Lv. 48 RDM / THF / BRD / RNG / NIN

Damage Per Second: 6.4
TP Per Hit: 4.8%

Garuda's Dagger
Rare/Exclusive
(Daggers) All Races
DMG: 19 Delay: 183 AGI +3 Attack +7
Additional Effect: Silence
Lv. 65 WAR / BLM / RDM / THF / PLD / DRK /
BST / BRD / RNG / SAM / NIN / DRG / SMN

Damage Per Second: 6.23
TP Per Hit: 5.1%

Notes: On Windsday, the additional effect activates frequently (every 1-3 hits).

So, Hornetneedle has higher DPS, but returns less TP per hit. I'm sure that probably evens out, but don't feel like doing the math. It doesn't have an added silence effect, however, so Garuda's Dagger could be pretty nifty against casting mobs if nothing else.

[tdh]

I've always wondered if Atk+ was factored into DPS. The Atk+7 should help the Garuda's out do the Horny. Either way the lowered DLY on the Horny is what wins it out.

My problem with it is for WS damage. Takes Sneak Attack and a Too Weak mob to break 400 on Evisceration. The base DMG is just too low to really put the Dagger to use. I've also seen THF's offhand the Horny and hit for 0dmg with the thing. So it's great for skill ups due to how fast it is, but for all out damage there better options.

Having said that, don't get me wrong because I love my Hornetneedle. Nothing like Haste, Double March and a Horny for Hundred Daggers! ^^b

[Sabaron]

Originally Posted by Murphie

Hornetneedle
Rare/Exclusive
(Dagger) All Races
DMG: 16 Delay: 150 DEX +1 AGI +1
Lv. 48 RDM / THF / BRD / RNG / NIN

Damage Per Second: 6.4
TP Per Hit: 4.8%

Garuda's Dagger
Rare/Exclusive
(Daggers) All Races
DMG: 19 Delay: 183 AGI +3 Attack +7
Additional Effect: Silence
Lv. 65 WAR / BLM / RDM / THF / PLD / DRK /
BST / BRD / RNG / SAM / NIN / DRG / SMN

Damage Per Second: 6.23
TP Per Hit: 5.1%

Notes: On Windsday, the additional effect activates frequently (every 1-3 hits).

So, Hornetneedle has higher DPS, but returns less TP per hit. I'm sure that probably evens out, but don't feel like doing the math. It doesn't have an added silence effect, however, so Garuda's Dagger could be pretty nifty against casting mobs if nothing else.

As I discussed previously, this depends if you're using an Enspell. If you are a Red Mage you should be using an Enspell when you're fighting unless you need the additional effect that the weapon carries itself (e.g. Excalibur, Guispiere, Sleep Dagger). I doubt you'd actually choose the Silence effect off of Garuda's dagger over an Enspell's damage output and casting an Enspell on Garuda's Dagger will prevent the Additional Effect from processing. The DPS Change depends on how much enspell you currently have. Assuming you can do at least 10 damage with an Enspell on your weapon the DPS for both weapons rises.

Hornetneedle: 26/150*60 = 10.40 [previously 6.4]
Garuda's Dagger: 29/183*60 = 9.51 [previously 6.23]

So now, what was a 0.07 differential is now 0.89 differential which means over a 1 minute battle, Hornetneedle with an Enspell doing just 10 points of damage will do 53 more damage over a 1-minute fight than Garuda's. The +7 attack is Ok--I won't run it through my calculator, because I'm not sure if it's right anymore (it gives me weird answers somethimes), but it's not going to beat an Enspell (it functionally increases the damage code of the weapon depending on the level difference between you and the mob-- +Attack is less effective versus high-level mobs than it is agains mid and lower level ones).

[hongman]

Thanks all

Slightly OT, but I have noticed a lot fo the times, wearing Fencer's Ring does not add to the enspell damage - what gives??

[tdh]

Mobs can resist En-spell damage as well. I've seen Enblizzard do 21dmg to Crabs with the Buzzard Tuck, then it uses it's Shell move and the damage is halved. So that could be what's happening.