[Lmnop]

Originally Posted by Halldir

I never implied that pup was the god of DD jobs nor that should or will ever be top parse on the DD game. The intent was to gauge and see what kind of response my OP was going to bring and for the most part is was exactly what it did... people will not accept that pup has any place in any facet of FFXI and no matter what data could be produced, people are going to be ignorant of what they have no clue about.

This entire thread just lost it's appeal. And I don't feel bad about calling you a troll.

I saw some doubts. If there was any naysaying, it was one person. The rest of us have been nothing but realistic. We see problems but we use this as a good starting point. I dare you to go through this thread and count up the number of times you see someone say something like "but this is very awesome to see".

But you see whatever the fuck you want to see and call the whole thing a wash.

I'm probably blowing this out of proportion and if so, I apologize. You want my respect back, acknowledge the vast majority instead of focusing on one or 2 negative opinions. We at FFXIOnline pride ourselves on not being BG.

[Sabaron]

Originally Posted by Karinya

...Nyzul might be a better testbed...

Nyzul Isle Investigation has the same problem as a meripo, there will only be 3 DDs in the sample set and even worse, the data will only be collected over a period of 1 very hectic half hour.

Yes, Eagle Eye Shot and Mijin Gakure can get rather annoying in Dynamis, and yes, a lot of DDs just like to post big numbers--not everyone is a fan of dying every 30 seconds though. However, I still like it as a test area. As an alternative, you could test in Limbus (18 players), Salvage (18 players), or Einherjar (36 players) though some Limbus runs may be a bit too short to collect any significant data.

[Clever Ninja]

I wouldn't count on more data, this guy is obviously full of himself. I hope he read the thread on BG cause majority of the people in this thread at least gave him positive reinforcement before we made our comments, they just tore him to shit. After seeing his response here, it's well deserved.

[Sabaron]

Originally Posted by Clever Ninja

I wouldn't count on more data, this guy is obviously full of himself. I hope he read the thread on BG cause majority of the people in this thread at least gave him positive reinforcement before we made our comments, they just tore him to shit. After seeing his response here, it's well deserved.

Yeah, I read them. While I do place some value on posts on BG, based on the fact that a lot of people at BG play FFXI far too much, there is a lot of pride there. So much so that it causes them to behave irrationally, especially with respect to changing their position on long-held traditions like PUP bashing. Basically, I think that a lot of the PUP bashers won't give it up until SE comes out with a new job that they can rag on like say... Chemist that they can make fun of instead. That notwithstanding, I find that since a lot of people frequent BG, you will find within their threads 1-3 solid positions and then 50 sheep who follow each position who post as frequently and insultingly as possible until they're reasonably confident that no one is listening--sort of like having a shouting match between political parties--you can never change their minds, and the winner is determined by who yells the loudest. Since I respect data and not dick-shaking, most of the effect of BG's flame-bloated threads is lost on me.

[Durahansolo]

Originally Posted by Sabaron

Chemist

One can only hope...

[Hyrist]

This all being said and accepted. It's a pity that Elmer the Pointy isn't playing the game as obsessively as he used to. This is an individual who does play the Puppetmaster job who is a supporter of the job's potential and also has a decent name for himself in BG as well as many other communities.

However I do believe he is more focused on JP Button nowadays than really pushing out his data.

It's sad to say but he did run into quite a difficulty when he advocated Puppetmaster as well. This stems more from the Min/Max mentality that generally rules over MMOs as a genera.

While I would like to say Elitism isn't also to blame, the truth of the matter is that players who play for status historically have the worst time accepting newer tactics, or going against the popular fads. This is a fact that SE, who was completely naieve in it's entry into the MMO world, had to learn the hard way. Fortunately, though they HAVE learned, if Blue Mage and Dancer (Especially post Group2 Dancer) are any indication.

They've essentially learned that to get a vision for any certain aspect of game play, they need to force it into the mechanics somehow, or at the very least make a spectacle of it. Fortunately it's worked for many things thus far so I'm remaining hopeful that neglected jobs such as Pup, Rdm, Whm, Smn will be satisfied with what updates they'll be getting in the future.

That said, someone needs to champion Puppetmaster and not let themselves get Jaded by adversity. If Pup was my main job, that call out on Kirin would have been a welcome challenge.

[Clever Ninja]

Honestly, main problem with PUP is people who know nothing about it go after the stigma. Alot of people know of lolPUP, and that's how I viewed the job until I unlocked it. Cost abit for the NPC and AH attachments, but just the normal level 1 frame is crazy useful. That combined with that I read from people who have PUP and I can see how it'd do well. Probably not as well main DD jobs, but fact is PUP is the same as BLU in the respect that they are very flexible in their roles.

Although not soon, I'm eventually gonna level PUP, probably after I finish RDM, and BLM/DRK/SCH for subs.

[Celeal]

I believe that if S-E willing to reduce the recast timer of activation, a lot of related issue would be fixed.

The selection of attachments available is very awesome. On the other hand, the low ~ mid level gear selection for the master is kind of out of place: S-E offers most WHM/BLM/SMN line of gear for PUP but majority of PUP player would put the master in the front-line.

The fun but hardest part of playing PUP I found is the Maneuvers: A lot of times when I try to maneuver combination for the situation, the situation would often shifted before I even finish the previous combination that I was working on. The learning curve for that first-in-first-out ~ max 3 maneuvers, plus overload, 12 attachments + head + frame is quite advance compare to other jobs. I mean the automation can Flash, Aspir... like the other jobs, but to get the pet to perform those task at the right/correct moment is tough.

[Sabaron]

Originally Posted by Celeal

I believe that if S-E willing to reduce the recast timer of activation, a lot of related issue would be fixed.

I agree.

Originally Posted by Celeal

The selection of attachments available is very awesome. On the other hand, the low ~ mid level gear selection for the master is kind of out of place: S-E offers most WHM/BLM/SMN line of gear for PUP but majority of PUP player would put the master in the front-line...

The whole idea of the PUP being a "clothie" is that they're not supposed to be in the spotlight. The maton is. I don't believe that PUP was intended to be in the monster's radar which is why they gave the maton Flash and Provoke. In real life, the puppetmaster is above/below/behind the stage/curtain. While the puppetmaster's face and voice may be part of the show, the audience is focused on the puppet. That being said, I would be in favor of adding a new clothing line in the WHM/BLM/SMN/SCH/PUP type that focuses on physical buffs rather than mental ones. You might want 1-2 lines say at 20th level and 30th level to replace Baron's and Seer's, but I don't think PUP suffers much in end-game gear with Enkidu and Pahluwan for self-improvement and a solid AF/Relic line.

[Kajidourden]

As someone who both recognizes the faults of and recognizes the potential in PUP, this post was very interesting. MY biggest question is though, does the OP have a TP AND a WS set? This could very well make the percentage gap larger by at least a few percent. Not only that, but (since it has been brought up elsewhere) he lacks the Nyzul WS, which is considerably more powerful than Howling Fist, which would more than likely double his WS numbers. Just some other things to consider