[IfritnoItazura]

Now that Soulsoother has been out for a while, and even some WHMs have caught on to /PUP, can PUP/WHM function as a main healer in exp parties? Though mostly interested in the Lv.40-72 range, please share if you have Lv.72+ experience as well.

I especially would like inputs from players with both PUP and WHM under their belts, and compare how they do. Would also appreciate links to other forums' discussion on this topic.

[KingOfZeal]

I've done the soulsoother from 42-50, both in parties and soloing.

From everything I've seen, they make terrific back-up healers, but they defiantly don't have the stuff for a main-heal spot, namely because of the wait time on spell casting. Though, that does change around 47, with the puppet learning Cure IV. However, at that point it becomes more about efficiency and hate control on the puppet. When I was soloing 49-50, the puppet was cure bombing me and itself regularly, and while it only rarely pulled hate because of it, it did run out of MP shortly after it used Mana Converter (of a pool of ~590 mp, it uses Mana Converter at ~200. With a 3 minute recharge time with the converter, it was frequently hovering around ~200 mp).

As I said, it does a terrific job at backup but, at least until Cure V, it shouldn't be put into a main heal position. Even after Cure V, mp is still an issue, since the puppet doesn't scale cures - it casts the highest one possible assuming it has the MP for it. I'd be willing to bet that it would do fine in a meritpo setting, though, with limited curing needed.

[Solymir]

Originally Posted by KingOfZeal

Even after Cure V, mp is still an issue, since the puppet doesn't scale cures - it casts the highest one possible assuming it has the MP for it.

Let's say at level 50 you or a party member has taken 100 damage from a mob, the first cure the puppet with cast is Cure IV? Or does it wait until you/party member has lost enough hp to be equal or more than Cure IV will cure? I don't have any experience with this yet so any info would be helpful.

[KingOfZeal]

Actually, that's very good question, and one which I can't answer accurately.

First, puppets will heal someone depending on a few factors, like having the Damage Gauge Equipped and how many light maneuvers you have up. Personally, I do use that attachment and I keep 1 maneuver up. That makes the puppet heal me (or itself or anyone else) at around 60%, when I'm in the yellow.

At the point, I'm missing about 240 HP. Normally, Cure IV will heal me for about 250, though I've seen it go as high as (I think) 340, but no less than 200. So, really, it can go either way, but I would be willing to bet that if you had 3 light maneuvers up, which makes the puppet heal you at 80% instead of 60%, it would cast Cure IV for a 120 HP heal (which is what it would do to me with 600 HP).

Basically, unlike the Black Mage head, which scales nukes depending on how much HP is left on the mob (it won't cast Fire IV if Stone II will kill it all the same -- it'll cast Stone II), the White Mage head doesn't scale down cures. It will cast it's highest tier as long as it has MP for it and the conditions for a cure are met (you can see the threshold for curing over on the page for Damage Gauge. If it doesn't have the MP for it's highest tier Cure, it will cast the highest cure possible with it's available MP. If the conditions for curing are not met, then it goes on to cast something else, like regen or a debuff.

[Solymir]

Thank you. That helps me a lot.

[Sugesuke_Plain]

The main problem is the global recast timer, so the only way I'm able to keep him just curing is by only deploying him when someone needs a cure. You'd pretty much have to sub WHM as well, cause unless you have an amazing tank that keeps hate 100% of the time and takes little damage your Automaton is not fast enough to keep a full PT healed. One thing that actually isnt a problem is MP, if you ever did actually run out you can deactivate at full HP and call it back to refill its MP.

And yeah it doesnt matter how much damage you have taken, if you meet conditions for a cure your automaton will use its highest one(if MP allows).

[Magoo]

I was in a level 64-66 xp party fighting colibri at the northwest camp in thickets. Our party consisted of myself (ninja), 2 mnk, 2 pup and a corsair, using the automatons as healers and it worked great. One of them eventually even switched out of healing mode because one was able to heal me just fine (sorry if terminology is wrong, my experience with PUP is pretty limited =P ).

We were fighting colibri though, and at that level keeping shadows up wasn't difficult. I have to wonder how effective they'd be if we were fighting mobs that did a lot of AE damage like flies - how would the automaton know to heal the tank first?

[KingOfZeal]

Very technically, the automaton will only heal the tank first if the tank is doing their job well (IE, keeping hate all the time).

The automaton's healing priority is as follows (as best as I can tell):
Puppet > Master > Whoever has hate > Anyone else

For each target group above, the spell priority is as follows:
Effect Erasing > Healing

In other words, it checks like this:
Puppet need an effect erased? > Puppet need healing? > Master need an effect erased? > Master need healing? > Whoever has hate need an effect erased? > Whoever has hate need healing? > Whoever has hate need buff (Regen)? > Anyone else need an effect erased? > Anyone else need healing? > Mob need debuffed?

The first one it comes to that is true it will take action on. Also, the reason I said the best I could tell, is because I have seen it cure the tank over me, and so the priority for master and whoever has hate *might* be switched, at least under certain conditions. Also, it will only cast regen on the person who has hate at that time, regardless of how far gone other people are.

[Saren]

Thanks King of Zeal. I have been looking at whm/pup as a possibility and your posts have given me a lot more practical help than almost anything else I have been able to find on it.

[Akashimo]

Now I'm more interested how I can play pup in different situations... but first... need to level it xD

Also, I've had noticed from other pups, that the auto does what has been said, use its highest cure when able. Blm, deals about inbetween the dmg a rdm teir 3 and blm teir 4 spells on nukes, at least for Dynamis Stones. I've yet to see any for exp yet ; ;

I'm also wondering, how does the attachments for the head/frame works subbed. I asume that its the same as /smn in terms of ability for a pet, or will it be such like 75 bst subbed to another 75 and charm works in similar manor?
Edit: Cause I've noticed that /pup gets skill ups when I was toying around in sky with 75thf/1pup XD

[KingOfZeal]

The puppet will be about the same as SMN, as you suggested. The skills, HP and MP are capped at whatever level it is when subbed. However, since frames and attachments aren't level-specific (there's no minimum job level to use any of them) you can use any of the frames and attachments you want subbed. Attachments that give it special abilities, like the flashbulb, replicator, shock absorber, and strobe won't have any diminished effect (since they get the same amount of effect regardless of level) with the possible exception for the shock absorber, since stoneskin is based off MND.

Now, during the first update or two after pup came out, there was a bug that /pup would have the automaton be the level based off the main job, if I recall. So going as a 60WHM/30PUP (with pup being 45 for the sake of this argument), the puppet would be either 60 or 45, I can't remember which. However, as I also implied, this bug was fixed early on.

As far as skillups go... I'm impressed a level 1 puppet can hit a level 70+ mob, though if it does I can't say it surprises me that it gets a skillup off it.

[Lmnop]

Drg/pup thread, someone* comfirmed that a subbed PUP can only become half as strong. Or... something.

Still, half as strong is a nice pool of MP and (I assume) Cure 3.


*"Someone" involves Vyuru abusing connections for the good of the community.

[Akashimo]

Originally Posted by KingOfZeal

As far as skillups go... I'm impressed a level 1 puppet can hit a level 70+ mob, though if it does I can't say it surprises me that it gets a skillup off it.

Yeah, I basicly just made it cast on a birdy with dia, then it got whiffed, skill up on melee and magic, then 1 shotted XD
Apparently automations hold grudges like Tonberries now >_>;

[Vyuru]

Now, during the first update or two after pup came out, there was a bug that /pup would have the automaton be the level based off the main job, if I recall.

Actually I think that the problem was in level capped areas the puppet wasn't capped, not puppetmaster so I'm not 100% positive on that, but it's sticking in my head that the problem was like the adventuring NPCs in level capped areas.

Drg/pup thread, someone comfirmed that a subbed PUP can only become half as strong. Or... something.

Indeed, that Vyuru is almost as smart as she is drop dead sexy

Ok, so it was my friend Wence who I got the info from >.> Had to say it though

[Srxjo]

as a lvl 8 MNK (Naked) i was able to hit a Lesser Cobri, for 0's but still i was shocked lol