[IfritnoItazura]

Originally Posted by Selphiie The Enchantress

Asking people who aren't seeking:

Try your best not to ask people who are not seeking for a party, because most likely they are AFK, or they are busy, and especially if they have a search comment that says that don't want to party. Although if you are missing a key job like a tank/puller/healer, or even a DD, it never hurts to ask, you may find yourself lucky. Just be sure not to get angry at the person if they say no, if they don't want to party, then they don't want to party. ALSO for a little more experienced players, (low level players are still learning), if you see someone seeking in places like Sky,Sea,Temenos, Hazhalm, or any other endgame zone, then they are doing a LS event, it is very rare that someone would be LFP in an endgame zone, but make sure to read the search comment if they have one. If you see a RDM looking for party in Dynamis-Sandoria, don't ask them lol.

lol. I only get invites on RDM lately when I'm trying to get back into alliance after d/c. >_<;

Agree with the general flow: take those looking first, only ask those not seeking if can't make a reasonable party from those seeking. Be polite, don't get angry if turned down.

Originally Posted by Selphiie The Enchantress

Invite a puller:
Make sure 1 of your party slots has someone who can pull. Yes EVERY job can technically pull, but when you get to camp you should be able to safely say "Ok so-and-so, your going to pull". I've had numerous partys where we would stand there like idiots for about 10 minutes after buffs until someone would just ask "so...whos pulling?" I try not to have MP jobs pull only because i would like them to HMP in between pulls, Blue Mages and Dark Knights are excellent pullers with throwing/poison/marksmanship, but most of the time without a refresher they would always sit there with no MP along the course of a few battles. I don't make DRGs pull, at all. Don't ask a DRG to jump pull, half the time they will come back dead, there is a small delay after a jump that gives the mob the opportunity to beat the crap out of the DRG as they start running back. Warriors are excellent pullers until around the time they start to equip pieces like the Bomb core, thats when you should have someone else pull. NEVER provoke pull, UNLESS you are tank pulling, because that is just deadly for the puller especially if the tank is not one to keep hate well. If there really is no one who can pull, then tank pulling is fine, Paladins can flash pull or provoke pull, and Ninjas (Ninjas worth their salt) will have a throwing item (Ungur Boomerang,etc).

It's a good idea, but may want to condense it a bit.

"Ask a member if he would be alright pulling before heading out .(Somepartymember ◀Fishing▶ OK?) That way he can grab a range weapon and ammo first if he doesn't already have it. Avoid asking members with MP (DRK can do it, especially with Refresh), shouldn't be asking DRG or MNK for the role at all."

I find asking tank to pull is generally a bad choice, especially NIN tanks for some reason. Provoke pulling is non-optimal, but can work; the puller better not use WS in the first 30 seconds. (Without enmity gear/food, the enmity from Provoke fades away in 30 seconds nearly completely.) WAR isn't a bad puller at any level; they are always using /NIN anyway, might as well make them spend a few shihei.

The problem with using a DD as puller at higher levels is that the good parties do not need a lot down time to recharge MP, so it make more sense for a DD to be flailing away instead of disengaging, then running around to bring in the next victim. At lower levels, though, the mages can use the break anyway, so stick to players with good damage mitigation (armor, Utusemi, flee, evasion, etc.) as pullers.

[Selphiie The Enchantress]

I kind of have this hierarchy of pulling, like depends whats in the party.

Thief > Ranger > Warrior > Corsair > Dark Knight > Bard(This obviously changes in later levels) > Anything else

But thats just me lol, as much as I love Ranger pullers, if there is a THF in the party i'd rather the THF with Evasion skill pull than the Ranger with E in evasion lol.

[Karinya]

A ninja that *isn't* tanking makes a great puller (imo that's what Utsusemi was originally intended for). If you happen to have 2 ninjas in your party, or before level 37, keep it in mind.

Even without throwing items they can pull with ninjutsu (assuming they're not total morons and have some tools other than shihei).

SAM have decent archery and Third Eye and can make decent pullers too, although they may not have a lot of practice at it.

If you're inviting anything other than THF, RNG, COR or high-level BRD to pull, *let them know in advance* - as soon as you invite them, or certainly before you leave town. They may need to change gear, or tell you that they have no experience at pulling (which can really hurt in a zone full of linking mobs, or aggro mobs that you don't want to pull).

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Originally Posted by Karinya

If you're inviting anything other than THF, RNG, COR or high-level BRD to pull, *let them know in advance* - as soon as you invite them, or certainly before you leave town. They may need to change gear, or tell you that they have no experience at pulling (which can really hurt in a zone full of linking mobs, or aggro mobs that you don't want to pull).

Actually, I would inform a RNG or COR in advance as well. Just because they typically have ranged weapons by default doesn't make them the best pulling choice. RNG and CORs have some of the highest-delay weapons in the game which can make pulling a pain in the arse in competitive camps. Additionally, CORs have a buff cycle to maintain and not every COR can juggle that and pull at the same time. I can, but I know plenty that can't.

As a RNG, I actually protest the idea of pulling because it takes away from my ability to DoT. No good reason for that, I'm a DD just as much as any WAR, MNK or other in the PT, if not moreso at times.

At any rate, these jobs aren't always "in the mood" to pull, sometimes we'd like to sub something other than /NIN to enjoy what our jobs can really do. Asking us to pull forces the issue of /NIN and takes a bit of fun out of both jobs. I subbed /WAR a lot during my RNG levelling and was always /RNG on COR.

[Selphiie The Enchantress]

Ok updated the guide with Ifrtinoitazura's post, which was frustrating because for some reason whenver i scrolled down to edit the scroll bar would bounce back up >.>; So it looks kind of out there lol...

[Karinya]

Originally Posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten

Actually, I would inform a RNG or COR in advance as well. Just because they typically have ranged weapons by default doesn't make them the best pulling choice. RNG and CORs have some of the highest-delay weapons in the game which can make pulling a pain in the arse in competitive camps.

No problem; it was already established earlier in the guide that competitive camps suck and you shouldn't go there or stay there. Find multiple options, search them in advance, pick one where there's a decent mob supply.

Additionally, CORs have a buff cycle to maintain and not every COR can juggle that and pull at the same time. I can, but I know plenty that can't.

Sure, there are always players who fail at their job. That doesn't mean it isn't their job. There are WHMs who can't juggle cures, regen and -na spells (let alone throwing in haste too). Does that mean you shouldn't expect WHMs to cover all those responsibilities? Hell no.

Do you inform PLDs in advance that they will be tanking? Inform WHMs in advance that they will be healing? Inform MNKs in advance that they will be punching things? Pulling is an integral and expected part of the roles of some jobs, particularly the ranged attack specialists.

As a RNG, I actually protest the idea of pulling because it takes away from my ability to DoT. No good reason for that, I'm a DD just as much as any WAR, MNK or other in the PT, if not moreso at times.

So is every other puller job, except BRD (at high levels), and not every party has one. (And bards, too, sacrifice a lot to go /NIN just to pull, as I'm sure you know quite well.)

RNG can control when they do their damage more than most other jobs (aside from THF, which is often pulling for the same reason).

The whole party, including you, will get more exp if you act for the good of the party rather than your own personal % of damage dealt. Your ability to DoT is only useful when it enhances the party's exp/hr. When your ability to pull enhances the party's exp/hr more, then the party needs you to pull rather than DoT. This applies equally to any DD/puller - but the ones who are traditional pullers are already used to it, which is why you only need to *specifically* notify the WAR, DRK, SAM etc.

At any rate, these jobs aren't always "in the mood" to pull, sometimes we'd like to sub something other than /NIN to enjoy what our jobs can really do.

Then do so. Not every mob is a raptor or tiger. There are plenty of camps where you don't need shadows to pull cleanly.

If you really don't want to pull on a job that appears designed to pull and is widely used as a puller, put it in your search comment. Don't be an ass to parties that invited a pulling job to pull.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Originally Posted by Karinya

Sure, there are always players who fail at their job. That doesn't mean it isn't their job. There are WHMs who can't juggle cures, regen and -na spells (let alone throwing in haste too). Does that mean you shouldn't expect WHMs to cover all those responsibilities? Hell no.

You're being a little elitist here, not everyone rolls into COR from prior RNG and BRD experience like I did. It was easy to pick up both obligations with ease for me because I was used to being a puller BRD, juggling buffs and doing pulling/DD on RNG.

People who don't come from those jobs or jobs commonly asked - not made - to pull are not used to the fast pace expected of them as COR or BRD puller. You seem to forget COR, unlike BRD, has a minute long recast between buffs. Its easy to manage for me, but complicated for other people.

Do you inform PLDs in advance that they will be tanking? Inform WHMs in advance that they will be healing? Inform MNKs in advance that they will be punching things? Pulling is an integral and expected part of the roles of some jobs, particularly the ranged attack specialists.

OK, scratch "elitist," you're just being a retard now. "Integral" is false - any job can pull. What not every job can do is stage pull, which BRD and COR excel at.

The whole party, including you, will get more exp if you act for the good of the party rather than your own personal % of damage dealt. Your ability to DoT is only useful when it enhances the party's exp/hr. When your ability to pull enhances the party's exp/hr more, then the party needs you to pull rather than DoT. This applies equally to any DD/puller - but the ones who are traditional pullers are already used to it, which is why you only need to *specifically* notify the WAR, DRK, SAM etc.

You send out the DD whose damage is of least consequence to pull, in most cases these days, its not a DD, its a BRD. THF's damage is of lesser consequence and they can affort to disengage early for next pull thanks to their ablity to move thier hate on to other people.

"But what if there's no THF?"

By your logic, only people with ranged weapons can pull because we're "used to it."

No,anyone can pull. Its not a job element, its a player skill.

Even then, why force it on the guy with the higest delay and largest damage potential? Give me a better reason than the ones you've given thus far.

Then do so. Not every mob is a raptor or tiger. There are plenty of camps where you don't need shadows to pull cleanly.

There are plenty of camps - pre-55 - that you don't need shadows to pull cleanly, once they start flying its a completely different matter, you are garunteed to get tagged.

If you really don't want to pull on a job that appears designed to pull and is widely used as a puller, put it in your search comment. Don't be an ass to parties that invited a pulling job to pull.

Again, pulling is not a job element or job design - anyone can pull. "Ranged weapon = Puller" is much of a misnomer as "Summoner = Healer."

I DO make search comments stating that I don't want to pull on they days I don't feel like it.

Guess what? People don't read your search comment when you're a COR or BRD.

[Karinya]

Originally Posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten

You're being a little elitist here, not everyone rolls into COR from prior RNG and BRD experience like I did. It was easy to pick up both obligations with ease for me because I was used to being a puller BRD, juggling buffs and doing pulling/DD on RNG.

People who don't come from those jobs or jobs commonly asked - not made - to pull are not used to the fast pace expected of them as COR or BRD puller. You seem to forget COR, unlike BRD, has a minute long recast between buffs. Its easy to manage for me, but complicated for other people.

Oh, I don't expect them to pull perfectly at level 20. But they'll learn it as they level up, like any other job role. COR often have a RNG sub which means more experience pulling (or insisting that their uber damage means someone else should be sent to pull instead). *Any* advanced job necessarily means they have 30 levels of experience in *something*, even in the dunes - time when they could have been observing good and bad pullers, if they knew they were going to try a job that frequently pulls.

I don't think it's elitist to insist that people who are going to play a difficult job actually learn that job. At least by the time they get to higher levels in it. Certainly playing COR well is one of the more difficult jobs in the game. That doesn't mean we shouldn't expect CORs to do a good job, or at least to try to do a good job.

"Integral" is false - any job can pull. What not every job can do is stage pull, which BRD and COR excel at.

Do some pulling as MNK or DRG before you say that job doesn't matter. Let alone MP jobs, which need to be resting between pulls (and yes, for most levels of the game, there still is such a thing as "between pulls"). This wasn't intended to be a meripo only guide, last I checked.

Stage pulling isn't really necessary with a little party cooperation - even at the highest levels where overlapping pulls are a good thing, there's no reason the puller and CCer *have* to be the same person.

You send out the DD whose damage is of least consequence to pull, in most cases these days, its not a DD, its a BRD. THF's damage is of lesser consequence

Now who's being an elitist?

and they can affort to disengage early for next pull thanks to their ablity to move thier hate on to other people.

That doesn't really make any sense. Unless you think that the puller is going to be so bad at hate control that they'll leave camp for the next mob and the current mob will *chase* them.

By your logic, only people with ranged weapons can pull because we're "used to it."

No,anyone can pull. Its not a job element, its a player skill.

It's both. People with ranged weapons get a freaking huge head start on every mob they pull, for free (well, for the cost of one piece of ammo). People with ranged magic get a moderate head start that may cost them some MP (unless it's non-MP magic like bard or ninja). People with jack shit outside of melee range are going to get hammered every step of the way back to camp *and* have a much harder time pulling one out of a group of aggro and/or linking mobs.

The right job won't make you succeed at pulling. But the wrong job can very easily make you fail at it, even if you're quite skilled. And that's not even counting all the jobs that have responsibilities at camp that prevent them from pulling (tanks, healers, people that need to rest).

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Originally Posted by Karinya

COR often have a RNG sub which means more experience pulling )

False. Most CORs - for whatever reason - sub WHM or NIN. Its a monkey-see/monkey-do thing. CORs that see it as "another BRD" sub /WHM or /NIN because that's what BRDs sub, CORs that see it as a RNG, sub /NIN because that's what most /RNGs do. Even JP players are extremely guilty of this, in fact, its where the problem largely stems from - monkey-see/monkey-do begetting even more of monkey-see/monkey-do.

Do some pulling as MNK or DRG before you say that job doesn't matter.

Pebbles. Everyone gets them, there's even a belt that dispenses them for all jobs.

Moar excuses please.

Stage pulling isn't really necessary with a little party cooperation - even at the highest levels where overlapping pulls are a good thing, there's no reason the puller and CCer *have* to be the same person.

Way to backpedal.

Then why do you expect CORs and BRDs to pull? Because we can stage-pull. Just because we're great at doing it doesn't mean we always want to. In fact, in slaughters BRD's job role by taking the focus off of thier specialization and puts it all into pulling.

SE seems aware of that issue while the rest of the community thought the job was just fine. Glad I'm not the only one who saw the problem going on there. BRDs were all like "March, Ballad" OK I'm pulling again. I'm like... "Um, Minuets?"

Now who's being an elitist?

Do you invite many THFs to pull in merit? To pull in EXP PTs? Let them SATA? Invite them at all? Other's jobs damage do catch up. THF just gets great spike damage early on, but other jobs admittedly catch up and without a willing SATA parter, THF and /THF cannot shine.

That doesn't really make any sense. Unless you think that the puller is going to be so bad at hate control that they'll leave camp for the next mob and the current mob will *chase* them.

You're not making much sense lately. I said THF has the ability to shed hate and leave to pull. If I pop off a Slugwinder on RNG or COR, I can't just walk away from that and pull. >.>; Should I not Slug? Its the best DD WS I have until Detonator just barely nips at its heels.

It's both. People with ranged weapons get a freaking huge head start on every mob they pull, for free (well, for the cost of one piece of ammo). People with ranged magic get a moderate head start that may cost them some MP (unless it's non-MP magic like bard or ninja). People with jack shit outside of melee range are going to get hammered every step of the way back to camp *and* have a much harder time pulling one out of a group of aggro and/or linking mobs.

WAR/DRK/THF/RNG/NIN/BRD/COR/DNC/BLU/SAM/PLD/PUP all have access to ranged weapons or good pull abilities, SMN and BST are a last resort of potential links in which we sacrifice the pet to make a clean pull.

I seem to remember you feeding me the argument that WARs shouldn't pull because they'd have to give up Bomb Core to use a ranged weapon. I have to give up some DD priority to pull and you see that as fair, buts not fair to WARs for me to ask them to bring a ranged weapon? Hypocrite much?

The right job won't make you succeed at pulling. But the wrong job can very easily make you fail at it, even if you're quite skilled. And that's not even counting all the jobs that have responsibilities at camp that prevent them from pulling (tanks, healers, people that need to rest).

Look at the jobs I listed 14 jobs that succeed at pulling, well over half of the jobs in the game. I could arguably throw in RDM as the 15th, as they can also equip ranged and if they're a good RDM, should might have to give up a tathlum or hedgehog bomb to do it, but they do get bows too. Even BST does and they have no skill in archery.

3/4ths of the jobs in the game can pull with ranged or magic, and if I want to get technical, MNK and DRG can use pebbles, bringing us to 17 jobs. Your argument fails everwhere but SCH, BLM and WHM.

[IfritnoItazura]

Originally Posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten

False. Most CORs - for whatever reason - sub WHM or NIN. Its a monkey-see/monkey-do thing.

Never really had trouble with asking CORs to pull, whatever they use for support job. Call me a lazy when it comes to the philosophy of pulling, but I'm happy when a puller uses /NIN; it makes puller dying on the way back that much less likely.

Originally Posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten

Pebbles. Everyone gets them, there's even a belt that dispenses them for all jobs.

That's a bit impractical; on Ifrit, a Pellet Belt is priced modestly at 9-10k, but only 0.352 sales per day. It's likely to be absent from AH most of the time.

I've had a grand total of one person (MNK) who proclaimed he has a Pellet Belt in party since I start playing.

Originally Posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten

You're not making much sense lately. I said THF has the ability to shed hate and leave to pull.

THF has the ability to not get enmity from a WS when used with TA, but doesn't have the ability to remove existing enmity already on itself. (It can steal enmity from others and add to its own, though, with Accomplice.)

As far as I know, only DRG (plus /DRG) and BST can shed enmity. Until S-E implement that wacky temporary enmity reduction thing for NIN, anyway.

Originally Posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten

I seem to remember you feeding me the argument that WARs shouldn't pull because they'd have to give up Bomb Core to use a ranged weapon. I have to give up some DD priority to pull and you see that as fair, buts not fair to WARs for me to ask them to bring a ranged weapon? Hypocrite much?

Assuming the two jobs, if pulling, would each spend same amount of time away from camp--if they spend that amount of time DD'ing, which would do more?

The one which does less damage should pull, no?

Unless you're claiming the average COR can out damage the average WAR, I'd say have the COR pull--the same argument for asking THF to pull instead of WAR.

Originally Posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten

I could arguably throw in RDM as the 15th, as they can also equip ranged and if they're a good RDM, should might have to give up a tathlum or hedgehog bomb to do it, but they do get bows too.

If you want some RDMs to pull with arrows, make sure you let them know ahead of time. We don't typically pack them (can't hit much even with capped skill), and often don't have room unless we leave something behind.

[Karinya]

Originally Posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten

Pebbles. Everyone gets them, there's even a belt that dispenses them for all jobs.

Moar excuses please.

Neither the pebbles nor the belt is all jobs. Most jobs, though. Pebbles also have shorter range than real ranged weapons, IIRC, but I suppose you can work around that.

The belt will dispense one stack of 12 pebbles every Earth hour. Have fun pulling with that.

Unless you're going to bring half a dozen pellet belts (and most players have never even seen one), MNK is not a practical puller and DRG is worse. Comparing the pellet belt to RNG, COR, BRD or THF's pulling abilities proves my point, not yours.

Then why do you expect CORs and BRDs to pull? Because we can stage-pull.

Wrong. I expect CORs to pull because they have guns (that you don't have to argue with them to convince them to bring) and they continue to contribute to a fight after they physically leave it (while their buffs are still in effect on other players). BRDs have 0-mp ranged magic and, again, stay in the fight while walking away from it.

RNG, on the other hand, do have to leave the fight when they leave the fight. So in that respect I'd agree that they're less than ideal for continuous pulling. But they still have a headstart on every mob, stealth abilities to avoid unwanted adds on the way to and from the mob, and shadowbind if something goes really wrong - in addition to whatever their subjob is.

And since they're a traditional pulling job, they're much more likely to have pulling experience - remember, this thread is from the perspective of the leader of a pickup party. If you don't personally know any of the other party members, which one do you think is more likely to have the skills to pull successfully? The RNG or the MNK? Which one already has a ranged weapon and ammo in their inventory?

In fact, in slaughters BRD's job role by taking the focus off of thier specialization and puts it all into pulling.

BRD pulling certainly does have downsides, but if it's the type of party and camp that benefits from continuous pulling (which not all of them are, but in that case there's no reason for a 0-MP DD not to pull), having the BRD pull may be the least-bad option, compared to having a DD sacrifice damage by leaving camp. Very few jobs can continue to contribute to a fight for a minute or more after physically leaving it; BRD and COR head that list.

Do you invite many THFs to pull in merit? To pull in EXP PTs? Let them SATA? Invite them at all? Other's jobs damage do catch up. THF just gets great spike damage early on, but other jobs admittedly catch up and without a willing SATA parter, THF and /THF cannot shine.

About as many as other jobs. They're somewhat disadvantaged by hate-bouncing parties, of course, but that mostly happens after 60 and Assassin can make up for it. An above-average pulling capability (compared to an equally skilled player playing a different job) doesn't hurt, certainly.

I do try not to discriminate against jobs because they're not the flavor of the month. A few jobs have serious balance problems (IMO SCH and possibly PUP atm, and both are being adjusted in 2 days) and it's arguable that THF is one of them; I think they usually do more damage than people think they're doing. It's notorious that people underrate low delay and H2H weapons if they're not actually doing the math, or having a computer do it for them.

You're not making much sense lately. I said THF has the ability to shed hate and leave to pull.

Which is false; THF can avoid accumulating hate, but once they have it they're stuck with it. Unless you're a job that really can *shed* hate - DRG and BST is pretty much it atm - you're responsible for not drawing too much in the first place. That applies just as much to RNG (especially RNG/WAR) as it does to last resort + souleater + berserk DRKs or chain-nuking BLMs.

In any case, a THF that leaves can't DE when they're not there any more than a RNG that leaves can SW when they're not there. Both suffer somewhat in damage and missed TP opportunity. They're still both usually better choices than anything else in the party.

If I pop off a Slugwinder on RNG or COR, I can't just walk away from that and pull. >.>;

You can if you were careful of enmity before you shot.

One of the worst developments of the TAU era, IMO, is that DDs don't take responsibility for their own enmity anymore. Not that there weren't some idiots before, but it's much more widespread the last couple years to see someone who would literally rather die than do 1% less damage than their maximum possible - even though becoming an MP sponge, let alone dying, slows down party exp far worse than moderating their damage to keep enmity on someone who can handle it.

Of course, it's convenient to be able to save it for a finishing shot and not have to worry about hate; but it's a sacrifice you sometimes have to make for the overall good of the party. The purpose of the party is not to beat the other DDs. (That would be meaningless anyway in a game with things like acid bolts, Warcry and Shield Break.)

I seem to remember you feeding me the argument that WARs shouldn't pull because they'd have to give up Bomb Core to use a ranged weapon.

That wasn't me, and I disagree with whoever it was.

Someone posted that many WARs will, in fact, *have* a bomb core (or something like it) rather than a ranged weapon, and you'd better tell them to switch *before* leaving town, which I agree with; if you have to specifically tell your RNG to bring a ranged weapon, then you shouldn't be inviting them for any purpose whatsoever. But either job should be prepared to pull when asked to. RNG, COR and THF should expect that they will be pulling in most of their parties, so many that the leader may think it's redundant to tell them each time, just like it would be redundant to tell a WHM, PLD, NIN, DRK or MNK what their role is going to be. At high levels BRD falls into this category too.

Look at the jobs I listed 14 jobs that succeed at pulling, well over half of the jobs in the game. I could arguably throw in RDM as the 15th, as they can also equip ranged and if they're a good RDM, should might have to give up a tathlum or hedgehog bomb to do it, but they do get bows too. Even BST does and they have no skill in archery.

3/4ths of the jobs in the game can pull with ranged or magic, and if I want to get technical, MNK and DRG can use pebbles, bringing us to 17 jobs. Your argument fails everwhere but SCH, BLM and WHM.

All of which can pull with magic, anyway, except maybe in places like Ro'Maeve or Ru'Avitau which hardly anyone camps in anymore. Actually, WHM and BLM can use pebbles too (although, oddly, not SCH - unless wiki's info is just outdated, which is possible since it doesn't list DNC either).

In any case, I never argued that *only* a few jobs could pull, just that they're *usually better*. WHM can pull. With Repose they can even stage-pull. They have Blink and Stoneskin to protect themselves while they do it, too. All of which does not add up to making it a good idea in any but the most bizarre party setups and camps. The existence of a possible pulling method for a given non-traditional-pulling job does not mean that they are going to be on par with an equally skilled player (or the same player) playing RNG, THF, COR, BRD, or non-tanking NIN, because job does matter.

[MrMageo]

I think you should add a section party upkeep.

I notice alot of the time plaers no longer respecet the party by finding a replacement, when im the leader i find it really irritating because it becomes my issue to find a replacement. No matter what the excuse is you have to leave right away blah blah blah players can always take the 30's logout to find a rep and send him to you or tll the leader i asked so and so.

As a leader now I generally expect this to happen more than once durring a party so i actively seek all in my lvl range just so i know whats out there ahead of time. Its nice knowing if you need to rep someone who just ditches your options so you can tell the group dont worry i saw a XXX seeking a few minutes ago ill get him to rep the XXX.

This also falls under afk members. I notice that often times if a PL is involved players take liberties of long AFK's for no real reason, sometimes 10 minutes or longer, at his point i would recomend a boot and invite someone else leechers kill the PT mood and generally slow things down.

On the topic of PL's i think it falls under the leaders responsibility to make sure the party members still preform there usual tasks, a suprise AFK by the PL mid pull can lead to the death of the party if your healer has been taking to much libertydoing other things (ie. WHM using banish). Just my 2 gil

[Murphie]

Originally Posted by MrMageo

I notice alot of the time plaers no longer respecet the party by finding a replacement, when im the leader i find it really irritating because it becomes my issue to find a replacement. No matter what the excuse is you have to leave right away blah blah blah players can always take the 30's logout to find a rep and send him to you or tll the leader i asked so and so.

I can't speak for everyone, but I know that a lot of players don't like to replace themselves for various reasons.

- They don't actually like the party, and don't want to inflict it on someone else.
- They aren't sure how much longer the party is going to last.
- They don't know what jobs the party wants.

Obviously it's going to vary from person to person, but as a party leader, I actually prefer to do the replacing myself. I want to have control of who I invite to the party.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

/shrug, think what you want, doesn't mean RNG and COR or even THF are defacto pullers.

I can honestly tell you as a COR PTs that invite me to pull have no chance of getting Corsair's Roll. There are plenty of RNGs that don't pull and object to it given what other jobs are present it should only be a last resort, not a point or which they're invited. Being ask to pull as BRD is irksome because it diminishes thier focus on buffing and its fostered the creation of several piss-poor BRDs.

BST/NIN with pet and Bow could be best puller ever, why doesn't anyone invite them? Shadows, Pets, Snarl - sounds perfect, really. Never happens.

Originally Posted by Murphie

They don't actually like the party, and don't want to inflict it on someone else.

Pretty much your best reason for force d/c or not seeking a replacement. I seriously don't want to waste anyone's time with a PT if I didn't like the PT and saw it wasn't working.

[MrMageo]

ya well i dont care for the reason they leave, (im guilty of it a few times acctually) just thought it would be a good section for the guide, most PT leaders spend lots of time bumbling around after a player leaves.

Im not going to jump to deep into your pulling debate, but i pull on every job it dosent matter what job there is always a way to pull. I pull on mage jobs with magic except rdm i use a bow and some arrows (and as a RDM i enjoy pulling in a meripo gives me something else to do), on DD jobs where im not tanking i pull with voke or range. I havent lvld cor or BRD much but i know that cors get guns and elegy/requiem make pretty great pulling tools. Carby is the best puller in this game, and if i got invites on BST my pet would do a bang up job as well.

Its a role that changes to what the party needs, Today i was pulling on my drk with a thf in the PT, but we were setting up a THF Sata onto the ninja tank so why should he lose out on TP for sata VB. I could afford to miss some swings since i generally have the hate on me SANS SE/LR/BRSK after a few swings, and am able to make up damage with those abilities.

In meripos i pull with RDM fairly often, rdm/nin to be exact. I line then up more effectivley then BRD because sleep 2 lasts forever. Ive pulled chain 150+ before. With a BRD in the party. We would alternate chains so we both didnt get immensly boerd with what we were doing. As much fun as it is to main heal im sure its just as much fun playing the same 6 songs all day.

Hell even DRG can pull if you do it correctly, sure youll take some hits but dont you have a main healer. The fact is lots of times parties wont have a defacto puller, because there are none. For some reason since TAU everyone is afraid to take damage for some reason and that dosent just apply to 50+ thats 10-75. With weak mobs comes weak players.