[DeebsTundra]

I just recently hit 75 and therefore have barely broken the ice on merit parties. ...but several times I've been for lack of a better word, "hassled" because I don't have a 37 Ninja subjob. ...cmon. ...is /nin really so important in merit parties? I'm a dragoon for crying outloud. /nin gives me nothing but shadows at that level. I'd rather taken a Regen II or III after pulling hate with an 1800 damage Penta-Thrust than not have access to berserk, warcry, meditate, hasso etc. I've been telling people that it's not leveled (which is sort of true, my nin being 18.)

One guy actually asked me to join his pt, then told me nevermind after he asked and I said, "Sorry, no ninja sub."

Experienced Meriters, got any suggestions? Drg/nin is worthless in my opinion. Shadows or not.


Offtopic Side-rant: I'm so tired of the answer to everything being "Utsusemi" Use your other job abilities for crying out loud. I had a drg/nin in an early 70's party that would pull hate and not Super Jump. I'm really surprised nobody has shouted Nin/nin {Can I have it?} yet. Ninja is not the end all beat all job and subjob in the game. >.>

[Kiyoko77]

Merit PTs are not XP PT's and anything goes! ....But yeah though, you must have NIN sub to survive the craziness that ensues!

Originally Posted by DeebsTundra

Ninja is not the end all beat all job and subjob in the game. >.>

For Merit PTs yes they are!

[DeebsTundra]

Originally Posted by Kiyoko77

Merit PTs are not XP PT's and anything goes! ....But yeah though, you must have NIN sub to survive the craziness that ensues!

So the virtual merit party I was in with a brd/nin, a whm/nin, a nin/war, a mnk/nin, a drk/nin and me as /war... ...I was wrong to go with /war despite the fact after a bad Greater Colibri link and some mis-placed spells, they all wiped and I was last man standing and still got away scot-free without /nin?

[Armando]

I don't think you understand the point of a merit party (or at least the kind of merit party the term usually refers to these days.)

It's all about near-endless chains and survivability. Taking no damage is better than taking some when you can blow through mobs at such a ridiculous rate that the only thing that could stop your chain is not having the MP to go on. You say /NIN offers you nothing but shadows, but that's the ENTIRE point of it.

You say you'd rather take some Regens than sub /NIN. Well, consider the amount of MP spent on Regens when no melee subs NIN compared to when they all do. The difference is big and obvious.

Many people loathe this trend, but the fact is that it's here to stay. SE has done nothing to discourage it, and in fact, have stated that rather than kill off meleeburns they'd rather pump up alternative party styles (not that they've done much about that yet either.) If you want to get the invites you're going to need /NIN.

It's a useful sub anyways. Not unlike /WAR. Sure, it's kind of lame that shadows solve everything but jeez, stop hating on a sub just for the sake of hating on it.

[Murphie]

There are always going to be exceptions. But for safety, and speed of kills, most parties are going to ask you to meripo as /NIN. If you don't want to sub it, you don't have to, but that is going to affect your options a little bit. Unless you make all your own meripo parties.

I know when I'm in a party with BRD/NIN and 4xMelee, the ones that don't sub NIN are the ones that eat all of my MP. And yeah, it's there to be used, but when everyone subs /NIN, we don't have to stop. When they don't, we do.

[Kiyoko77]

A long time friend of mine thats been playing since day 1 Japan release invited me over one night to check out how his static merit PTs go. Yeah my jaw was on the floor at the craziness I witnessed.

Just 6 ppl, I forget all the main jobs, and everyone had /NIN. The one to watch was the BRD though. He was the puller and I'd never seen anything like this done so well in my life.

Anyway as the other 5 stood in a circle and were beating one mob down, the BRD was keeping the fighting going by sleeping mobs up in a line outside the chaos. He had at several times 4-5 mobs sleeping and waiting their turn to die. As the 1 in the center was near death he'd wake the next one in a line and pull it into the center of battle and set it right where the other is. {Usually right before the other died, and battle continued.} Nobody ever had to put away their weps or stop, just a constant flow of mobs and I watched this group do this for nearly 4hrs straight.

That BRD was the ultimate master in crowd control/pulling I've ever seen. I was just speechless at how amazing this group was! Especially that BRD!!!

[DeebsTundra]

Ok, maybe I went about "hating" on ninja the wrong way. ...let me rephrase. ...on Ramuh, the typical merit party camps (Greater Colibri in Bhaflau, Mamool Ja Staging Point and Caederva Mire) are jammed. The idea of a merit party is to go after stuff that dies easy and chain like crazy. ...So look at the example of the Greater Colibri camps. 3 levels, 11 spawns on the 2nd level and 10 on the lower. Every single time I've been there, it's attempting to support 2 parties on each level. I've partied there 3 times at all times of the day and night and there is no chance any of those parties are chaining higher than 6, MAYBE 7 if they get lucky and the other party is half-asleep. So why sub a sub that you wouldn't sub in normal exp? After all, the way I see it, Merit is just a faster form of exp. And if the chains are going to die out anyway to to camp overcrowding why not sub something that's going to give me that extra "umph" on damage?

By the way, for anybody thinking it, I'm not hostile, just trying to understand.

Edit~~ Thank you to whoever moved this.

[Eohmer]

As far as overcrowded camps... for that 1 second it takes to cure you, another party already pulled your possible prey.

[Aksannyi]

Well since my linkshell despises the "ZOMG PULL FASTER PULL FASTER" style of meripo (and because I hate main healing) we tend to take a more traditional set up along with us, and because of that, we don't give a good god damn what you sub. Unfortunately, our LS is the minority, it seems.

I understand why /NIN is so important, but I don't like it. And since I won't join one of those OMFGCHAIN9000 parties to begin with, it hardly matters. My ninja is sitting at 15, and it's staying that way. Even though, as RDM in most meripo, I'd be /WHM and main healing anyway.

[BurningPanther]

Seconded. People constantly espouse the wonders of those rapid-exp parties, but the fact of the matters is that, while certain things like /NIN are required to get an invite to such parties, you can certainly do without them. You can sub what you please(within reason--ah fuck it, sub what you please), just be prepared to possibly be discounted from those high-chain setups.

Though, it's getting harder to find like-minded individuals...

[Aksannyi]

I'm perfectly content to have just Slow II right now, with my limited playtime I want to have fun when I'm out and about in Vana'diel, not want to beat my head through a brick wall.

[Omni]

Originally Posted by DeebsTundra

Ok, maybe I went about "hating" on ninja the wrong way. ...let me rephrase. ...on Ramuh, the typical merit party camps (Greater Colibri in Bhaflau, Mamool Ja Staging Point and Caederva Mire) are jammed. The idea of a merit party is to go after stuff that dies easy and chain like crazy. ...So look at the example of the Greater Colibri camps. 3 levels, 11 spawns on the 2nd level and 10 on the lower. Every single time I've been there, it's attempting to support 2 parties on each level. I've partied there 3 times at all times of the day and night and there is no chance any of those parties are chaining higher than 6, MAYBE 7 if they get lucky and the other party is half-asleep. So why sub a sub that you wouldn't sub in normal exp? After all, the way I see it, Merit is just a faster form of exp. And if the chains are going to die out anyway to to camp overcrowding why not sub something that's going to give me that extra "umph" on damage?
By the way, for anybody thinking it, I'm not hostile, just trying to understand.
Edit~~ Thank you to whoever moved this.

again, its for survivability. you dont need that 'umph' when you'll be pulling hate and having the healer spend unnecessary mp on you. you might say, well i can kill the mob faster. it will be hardly any faster than you will with /nin because theres only so much hp on a mob for you to pound on. if you dont ws, someone else in ur pt will ws. your kill rate will be slowed down much more by your 1 healer having to rest for mp than you subbing /nin.

its perfectly fine i think if you dont like the high chain pts. if you dont like the high pace, cant stop or youll break chain attitude ppl have, i completely understand. BUT, if you dont like those pts, then dont join them as some ppl have said. you cant fault ppl for wanting to make an efficient pt either.

personally, i like the high chain pts due to the fact that once i get off work, i dont have a whole lot of time left in the day to play. if i get a pt, i want to get the most out of it. getting 5 merits in 2 hours fits my play time better.

[DeebsTundra]

Originally Posted by Eohmer

As far as overcrowded camps... for that 1 second it takes to cure you, another party already pulled your possible prey.

I'd debate that considering I've never seen someone mainhealing and pulling at the same time.

------------

I guess I'm fighting a losing battle considering it's the classic subjob "argument." But maybe I like the near 700 attack I get with Berserk and Warcry, and using the first 60% of the Great Colibri's health to build TP. ...then buffing, unleashing and taking the other 40% off myself. Maybe it's just the way I see, but I dont see shadows getting cast very often when I'm in parties with the exception of the tank. But that's just my opinion.

Sorry I asked, just let the thread die.

[Murphie]

I know you asked for the thread to die, but seriously - meripo is not about your WTFPWN damage. It's about getting exp for everyone.

Also, most meripo don't have "tanks".

Again, if you prefer one style, that's totally cool. But you are limiting your options with regard to meripo options. And as long as you're ok with that, then there's really nothing more to say. But it sounds as though you're not ok with that, and you want everyone else to do things your way, rather than doing things everyone else's way.

[DeebsTundra]

Originally Posted by Murphie

and you want everyone else to do things your way, rather than doing things everyone else's way.

I shouldn't respond to this but I will. First off even if I was trying to tell people to do things my way, (which I'm not) how is that any more excuseable than other people telling me to do it their way?

I don't care if other people want to sub nin. I don't get into a party and say, "wtf, you are all ninja, that's stupid." But if I don't want to sub nin, because I'd rather deal the damage out to help kill said mob, don't complain and kick me out because I don't want to do it your way. If the exp flows, the exp flows.

The original post was a simple question about why people were so adamant about having /nin. I understand that fine, but I've taken a little bit of a beating here because I don't want to sub nin. ...I think it's pointless when the basic idea of a merit party is to kill fast. ...and I killer fastER with a DD style sub as opposed to "omg, please don't hit me so the whm has to regen me."