[Palom_FF]

I don't understand the mentality of people lately. This has happened to me twice in the past week. Perhaps it's more of a rant, but I don't get why people won't accept the NM system, as broken as it is, as something we have to deal with.

First instance: I was in Xarcabard and a friend of mine in my LS asked me to check Biast. I run over to look, and lo-and-behold it's up. A RDM is holding it by gravity kiting. I was with a NIN friend at the time and we were just watching the RDM kite it. Apparently the RDM didn't know what they were doing because they kept turning to face the mob and would get Petrified from Petro Eyes. I told my LS friend to head out. 5 mins later, the RDM gets petrified for the third time and dies. My NIN friend then vokes Biast and we start fighting it.

About 2 minutes after we start fighting, my LS friend gets disconnected. I ask my NIN friend if I should R1 (I was on SMN at the time) the RDM and get them in to lot the helm if it drops, since neither of us wanted the helm and my friend who did disconnected. He then proceeds to tell me that the RDM is sending him nasty /tells about how we're selfish pricks, yada yada. So I say screw that and let them sit there. When we get the mob to about 50%, the RDM's LS finally shows up and their PLD tries to "steal" it back by tossing Cure IV on my NIN friend and using Invincible (he apparently doesn't understand the new claim system). The RDM has been R3'd and is now spewing profanities in /say about how we are selfish. My LS friend still has not come back from his disconnect, so I ask the RDM's LS (I stuck the RDM on blist by now) who they were here to get the helm for. We didn't get a drop, but I had planned on inviting them to lot had it done so.

Second instance: I have been camping Bonnacon for the past week to get Cure Clogs for myself. Just this morning I was farming Buffalo for about 3-4 hours, no pop, then had to go help my LS with an event. After the event, I come back to try to pop the NM again and there are two people camping Bonnacon now (RDM/NIN and WHM). 15 mins later, the NM pops and they claim it. Stupidly, they fight up top (this area has 5 min repops) and get an add. I finish up the mob I was fighting and am sitting here resting for MP while watching them fight.

They panic and drag the NM off to another area while picking up another add. The WHM is sleeping the adds and RDM is fighting the NM. WHM runs out of MP and dies, and the RDM dies shortly after. I let the NM wander off and regain its HP and then claim it. The RDM then runs up to me and screams and yells at how how I "fucked them over" and how selfish I am. He goes on a tyrade how it was their NM and I stole it. I told him I let them try and handle it and they couldn't (to which his only response was "BS," though I don't understand how wiping is being able to handle it); not my fault.

Seriously, what kind of crap is this? Are there lines for NMs? Do we have to be in a queue to get claim? "Oh, sorry, I was here first, you'll have to wait." THAT is being selfish. We're going to act like 5-year-olds at NMs and expect to have "do-overs" if we wipe? Try pulling that kind of crap at Nidhogg.

I don't consider myself a selfish person, but I will be competetive at NMs. I will not play dirty and attempt to MPK people. I will not spam abilities and try to steal claim during a fight. But if you can't handle an NM on your own and die, you lost it. No do-overs. If it were a popped NM, it would have despawned after you died and you would have lost your trigger.

This is just really getting to me being treated like crap whenever I'm at an NM. I never expect anyone to help me whatsoever when I'm fighting an NM. If I die, it's my own fault for being under- or unprepared. I don't even expect a Raise. Sure, I would love a system where all NMs were forced pops and we could do them at our leisure without being forced to compete with people. But, unfortunately, Square seems to think otherwise and we're forced to deal with the NM system as it is. I've lost many an NM in my time. Don't be a sore loser and throw a temper tantrum if you lose one.

[csBahamut]

They couldn't accept that they screwed up, and tried blaming you. Just ignore/blist them and move on. There's always people like that around.

[Eohmer]

Oh geez... people like that soooo ruin the game... just BList them and move on.

[framerate]

I'm very social with other campers.... I normally chat with them. There's one right now camping Leaping Lizzie every day with me and we let each other know who gets the claim/drop.. We even started synching our paths so once of us was always in one area so either he'd get it or I'd get it. I've seen a few people get the boots this way and I never feel bad. It's all in good fun.

On that note, I don't feel the NM system is broken at all. You really do? These mobs are SUPPOSED to be rare. If everything was a "force pop" or "instance" fight we wouldn't have as much fun. Things can't all be TOO easy or you wouldn't still be playing FFXI.

I like camping NM's a few hours after I'm done with an exp party. It's sorta fun and if you get it it's really rewarding. Making it easier would ruin that.

[Ashady]

Theyre interesting storys, I normally laugh t hate tells and just move on. Just do the same then Blist them

[Thrasher]

/Sarcasm
It's my NM and
I'll cry if I want to.
Cry if I want to, cry if I want to.
You would cry too,
if it happened to you.
/Sarcasm off

(ok so im kinda board)
Sometime I should dress my Dark knight up in my lv 30 mage gear and go /anonymous and go hunt NM. But ya when I hunt NM I ignore all the tells and talking (unless it is highly important) so I can clam the monster as quick as possible. If all else fails tell them {You can have this} {/Blacklist}

[Tirrock]

I've seen a few cases similar to this when I did HNM stuff. It gets really silly.

I especially liked the one where they died to the buffalo NM and it was somehow your fault in their eyes. You even let it regen before you pulled it after they died.

[Drive]

Well you had every right. They had a chance and failed, just the way it works.

Personally though I can't stand NM's and will only camp then when no one else is. After spending all that time staring at the screen or killing placeholders so someone else can claim, no i can't do that. I go as far as leaving if another camper shows up because I hate the competition. Obiviously with linkshell or friends I don't mind as much but when i'm on my own I usually duck out.

[fallenintoshadows]

Childish. Totally childish.
If they want to throw their toys out of their prams let them. The NM didn't have their name on it

[Karinya]

Originally Posted by framerate

On that note, I don't feel the NM system is broken at all. You really do? These mobs are SUPPOSED to be rare. If everything was a "force pop" or "instance" fight we wouldn't have as much fun. Things can't all be TOO easy or you wouldn't still be playing FFXI.

Nonsense. If King Behemoth, Aspidochelone and Nidhogg could be popped like Kirin or Jailers (let's say farm normal mobs for a rare/ex item to pop the normal version, who has a 25% chance to drop a rare/ex item that pops the king or has a 25% chance for the king to spawn claimed at death, AV-style) there would still be lots of things for high level LSes to do (in fact, for most high level LS, there would be *more* things to do, because they would be worth doing.) They'd just usually have better gear to do them in and certain things might be a little less expensive (dusk set, anyone?). FIGHTING King Behemoth is, and should be, challenging and rewarding. FINDING him shouldn't be.

Kirin, AV, ground kings, other popped NMs (Kurrea etc.), Dynamis (old and new), Limbus, Assault and whatever content will be added in future Aht Urhgan updates - that, of course, is *after* you progress far enough in at least four mission storylines (there's six if you want to do them all), and is in addition to leveling, merits and any other jobs you want to play with. There's so much content in FFXI, it's absurd to say that some of it *needs* to be hugely time-wasting to keep people in the game. (Oops: left out BCNMs, KSNMs, ENMs and the new Aht Urghan battlefield fights: ISNMs? Plus Conflict, crafting and chocobo digging if you're into those, and soon chocobo raising/racing too.)

Everything on that list *except* the ground kings allows LSes to spend the majority of their time fighting or doing something interesting. You could play for years without ever touching a 24-hour pop and not run out of things to do - and the majority of players do just that.

There's no excuse for 24 hour (or longer) timed pops. None. SE just refuses to change a pop system that clearly doesn't work, despite years of evidence that it doesn't work and years of player consensus that it doesn't work, and even after they have invented systems that work better, they still refuse to apply them to the NMs that were the original problem.


All that being said, of course anyone who loses to an NM should accept their loss and let someone else fight it.

It still pisses me off though when I'm killing stuff to pop a lottery NM and I see someone just standing there, not fighting any placeholders, so that he can have an advantage over me at claiming the NM if it pops - because of the work I'm doing and he's not.

Maybe they should turn all lottery NM pops into AV-style death pops. Wouldn't that freak out the people exping on rock lizards in S Gusta? :D

[Omni]

never under estimate someone else's stupidity.

ignore and move on, those people wont ever be happy about anything. next you know, they'll blame you for not getting drop because you give them badluck or something.

[tdh]

Personally I think people are way too competitive when it comes to NMs. I know it's frustrating, and I really do not like doing it, but it's saved me gil farming some of the items. (I do NOT camp NMs for gil. Wasted time in my eyes.)

But at the same time, trying to steal a claim from somebody, or just letting 6 people wipe is wrong to me. I've been yelled at for helping somebody kill a NM they weren't quite prepared for, and I've bought the farm helping a group take down a WS NM.

[moral]

I was leveling DRG back like 3 years ago in Sarutabaruta. I was wanding along, Lv.8 I believe when I spotted Spipi. I didn't really know what level it was, but I had TP, and Delphyne was at full health. I decided to give it a try. 3 straight crits and I was in dire straights. A WHM40 who was PL a RDM10 walked by, and they both Cured me to keep me alive. I won the fight, got about 180EXP and the Cape! I was so happy they helped me out, I gave each of them 20k. Cape was selling for about 100k at the time, so I almost gave them their share for helping. Both were quite impressed, and happy.

To this day I've kind of treated NM camping like that. If I run up on somebody killing an NM that I want a drop from, and they're not doing so well, I help them. Does this mean more time for me camping this thing? Yes, but I have the ToD, and I helped somebody else in the community. Now I have no idea if that same person would have done the same for me, but that's not how you live your life.

Be competitive, but don't forget that this is a community, and there are other people around you. Helping them may later come full circle, but letting them die so you can then claim it, could also come full circle.

[/moral]

[Akashimo]

Genral rule i'd follow, if it's time spawned or lottery popped, claim and kill, if you were killed and someone else claims they got the right to. As for forced pop mobs, person who spawns it get the mob and choices who's drop it is. You wipe, reraise heal up and continue. People shouldn't steal forced popped mobs no matter what. Carbuncles mitts.... a while back my social ls had a mitt run, unfortantly i had school the next day so they let me go afk safe and get me a pair of mitts since one of the ppl there only wanted the pact. Unfortantly, from what i can gather at that time, first pop, they wiped from link, long and messy story, but another group who were gonna after it, stole and killed the mob, and didn't bother to replace a pop with thier item :/ That kind of thing should not be happening with forced pops. Your items it is YOUR nm, lottery pops only claim is when the mob is dead simple like that. After a while there was another carby mitt run, so i used my item to replace for the mitts of the person's who lost theirs.

[Grizzlebeard]

Originally Posted by Karinya

There's no excuse for 24 hour (or longer) timed pops. None. SE just refuses to change a pop system that clearly doesn't work, despite years of evidence that it doesn't work and years of player consensus that it doesn't work, and even after they have invented systems that work better, they still refuse to apply them to the NMs that were the original problem.

You know, in Everquest there were mobs on a 7 day respawn timer. Difference being after four years plus there were so many more mobs in the game for the players to kill at group and raid level. There was no formal claim mechanic either, the general rule enforced by GMs and accepted by players was that you had to have a sufficient force to take the mob down and deal the first damage to the mob. If you tried and failed more often than not the other raid forces present would stand back and let you try again if it wasn't clear you were hopelessly outclassed. If you tried to hold a mob while not having sufficient force as was the case occasionally then a GM would arrive in short order and have words.

The big issue with FFXI is the lack of high end gear target mobs and the morality of the people in that scene. Everyone knows the three kings are a botclaim fest anyway. There's a reason why Fafhogg, KB, and Aspi are perma-camped by the same LS's that were camping them four years ago, it's still pretty much the best gear in the game.