[Lone Dragon]

Paladin, Paladin, Monk (me), Thief, White Mage, Red Mage...

The Paladin and I were the only english speaking people there. Apparently, the PT setup was so bad the rest of the PT disbanded. ._.

I don't get it!
Two tanks, two healers, two damage dealers, wtf?
I even had it set up so the damned thief (which i really didn't want) could fuidama.
I already had Pld, Mnk, Thf, Whm, and Rdm, and I knew we needed a tank, but no Wars were available.
Get the 2nd Pld, BOOM fell apart....

Be brutally honest without being condescending.

[bside]

2 pld's. that's the main problem. well, the bottom line, even "2 tanks" is somewhat wrong.

around that lvl (assuming around 35-39 from ur info on the left), u wouldn't need 2 tanks. u only need one. 2 pld's=less damage=slow to kill. it's that simple. if u r trying to say "for fuidama," ur picture of pld is almost wrong. w/ yokodama now gone, the pld's job isn't to always keep the hate, but to "control" it. thereby allowing thf to performe fuidama onto pld when and only when it's needed. (i know it might be too much to ask for someone in 30's, but that's the reality.)

also, did u consider about renkei? u got thf, and probably use viper bite, but what connects to it? one of the pld's uses 2h sword for power slash? when forming a party, renkei combination is one of the big factors to consider. and ur party setup lacks the melee class who can toss onto the viper bite for incurve renkei. (i'm excluding pld's) w/ that said, war who can use spear (though i understand there wasn't any at that time), drg, or rng would've been a better choice.

that's about all that come up to my mind right now. if someone else can point other things, please follow up.

[Lone Dragon]

Yea, I had considered that the damage output would be low, but I always thought it was prudent to have two tanks.
I wanted to ask a Blm to come over that thief, but the only one I could find was just about to farm for new spells.

On the Renkei side, it was pretty simple: Viper Bite > Red Lotus Blade > Combo (and when I get to 41, Raging Fists) failing that with the tanks having to heal for MP and all, Viper Bite > Backhand Blow.

Again, my options were limited even in a world search (called the 2nd pal in from jugner),
so (unfortunately) this is a learning experience.

[kainzero]

On the Renkei side, it was pretty simple: Viper Bite > Red Lotus Blade > Combo (and when I get to 41, Raging Fists) failing that with the tanks having to heal for MP and all, Viper Bite > Backhand Blow.

you need to lead into viper bite. it does a lot of damage. 2nd hit is source of renkei damage.

ex:
i was in a group at qufim with a sam.
enpi(60) > lotus(30) + liquefaction (10) = 100 dmg
flip it baby
lotus (30) > enpi(60) + scission (30) = 120 dmg

doesn't sound like much until you put in more powerful WS.
SA + TA + Fast Blade (200) > burning (40) + liquefaction (20) = 260 dmg
burning(40) > SA + TA + Fast Blade (200) + scission (100) = 340 dmg.

wow.

[Niexist]

Originally posted by Lone Dragon
Yea, I had considered that the damage output would be low, but I always thought it was prudent to have two tanks.
I wanted to ask a Blm to come over that thief, but the only one I could find was just about to farm for new spells.

nope 2 tanks isn't prudent, it's stupid. Any more than 1 tank is a waste, and is hurting the PT.

The minimum a PT can be, and still get 5k an hour is

1 RDM
1 WHM
1 PAL, or NIN
3 DMG dealer(by dmg dealer I mean any class that's main purpose is dmg output.)

There are obviously better PT setups, but this one is the best that will with competent players get youa good 4-5k exp per hour.

Anyway, the point 2 tanks suck, only 1 ever.

[Lone Dragon]

Kain: Yea, I figured that out beforehand, but keeping chains powerful and without resists isn't exactly consistent.
Most of the time, the only point is to use the right element so the mages can MB with the right spell.

Niex: Do you have any idea how many times the enemy runs to the back row in a fight?
I mean, I can see your reasoning, and I agree, but it's an amazing pain in the ass being a DD then having to provoke off the mages.


Oh, and just to be sure...
Two Red Mages does not equal a White Mage, correct?
The first time I heard that, I knew it was somewhat asinine.

[kainzero]

Kain: Yea, I figured that out beforehand, but keeping chains powerful and without resists isn't exactly consistent.
Most of the time, the only point is to use the right element so the mages can MB with the right spell.

imo, better to renkei with damage output in mind, not magic burst.

in my first example, lotus > enpi vs. enpi > lotus, lotus > enpi is scission, and we were fighting worms, which are naturally strong against earth.
today in qufim PT, did a renkei that ended with SA + combo with lv2 skillchain fusion against clippers. clippers aren't weak against fusion, but it's a) lv2 and b) high damage output.
much better than using elemental chains.

[Niexist]

Originally posted by Lone Dragon
Niex: Do you have any idea how many times the enemy runs to the back row in a fight?
I mean, I can see your reasoning, and I agree, but it's an amazing pain in the ass being a DD then having to provoke off the mages.

If you're having mobs run to the back row, then your mages are doing something wrong, or the main tank isn't provoking every 30 seconds, plain and simple. Most likely people are nuking for to much damage, or doing mega heals when they should be using cure II.

You never, ever need more than 1 tank, if you think you do, your PT mages need talking to. I know when I pt the only time the tank loses hate is when the thief does sneak+trick off of me, and directly after it either is within 3 hits of death, or I use super jump, and aggro is back on the tank.

I can't emphasize this enough, it is the reason people left your group ONLY 1 TANK EVER.

[Lone Dragon]

Niex: I completely understand, and the next time I'm forced to make my own PT, I'll remember that.
I just wanted you to see my end.

Kain: Ok, lvl2s = high power & low resist rate, gotcha.