Hate, Provoke, and Damage Question

ChezGod · 12-11-2003, 06:32 PM

How much hate does provoke give in comparison to how much damage you would have to deal to gather the same amount of hate?

Star Sibyl · 12-11-2003, 07:20 PM

As far as I know, hate only falls on a character for two reasons: the ability Provoke is executed by player X or player X deals the highest amount of damage within a pt. So basically if player X seems to consistently deal the most damage within the pt, the hate will most likely continue to fall on him/her. Also player Y can execute Provoke and bypass the default hate towards player X's high damage dealing.

What all this means is that there is no range of different damage dealing in equivalence to Provoke. Provoke is just one way to keep the hate off of whoever the highest damage dealer is...which if a BLM exists in the pt, it would be him/her...or in the case of a WHM which would also create hate towards that player.

Bottom line, if you're a WAR, just keep pressing your Provoke macro and if you're a BLM/WHM/RDM, choose wisely when to cast your spells.

ChezGod · 12-11-2003, 09:05 PM

What about a Dark Knight? What should a Dark Knight do to keep aggro of himself?

Izual · 12-12-2003, 06:06 PM

Why would a dark knight want to keep aggro? I don't know about you, but I take too much aggro as it is with damage alone. The tanks in my parties can barely keep the mob off me:sweat:

I suppose if you had to tank for some reason you would want to do a good job at keeping aggro. If your damage alone isn't enough, and you don't have provoke, use abilities like last resort that generate hate just by being activated. You can cancel it right after you activate it to avoid taking hits with the lower defense. It isn't ideal, but then drks weren't meant to tank in the first place. Casting spells will generate some hate too, though the kind of magic you're using doesn't seem to make much of a difference.

EDIT: I think I read that wrong, and after seeing it again I'm guessing of = off, not of = on:spin: If so, just disregard this post:p

Kagi · 12-19-2003, 11:48 AM

Chez, get a good pld (or nin or whatever tank). The job of keeping hate off you is not yours, it is mainly your tank's. Of course you need to be aware of your own damage, like you don't use Souleater+Last Resort+Berserk+some mad WS and expect the tank to keep it on him/her...

Varo · 12-19-2003, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kagi
like you don't use Souleater+Last Resort+Berserk+some mad WS

Unless you are 100% sure you can kill it with that WS.

LEOsh · 12-26-2003, 01:28 AM

This is straight out from a Japanese website. I don't have the url but this is what was said. Just to summarize:

Hate is built up in several ways.
-damage inflicted (magic or melee)
-enemy weakening spells/skills/songs
-curing spells/songs
-skills that increase your stats - like berserk
-chohatsu (Provoke in English?)

The amount of hate it generates differs. Like cure may generate less nate whereas provoke generates more in an instant. Over time and as the enemy attacks and hits a player, the hate for that player decreases. However healers usually don't get hit thus hate only adds on (although some will be decreasing as time passes). Thus the importance of regular "provokes".

Sorry, this isn't really answering the original question. :sweat:

Somajan · 01-04-2004, 05:59 PM

I've found that using 2 dex rings as a paladin helps with holding onto the hate well, I'm not quite sure but it worked for me during the beta days,

But now with those +2 stat rings I think I'll eventually buy one of the +2 dex and +2 vit rings and use both.

12-11-2003, 06:32 PM	#1
ChezGod Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 47 Style: Light Theme V7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0x in 0 Posts	Hate, Provoke, and Damage Question How much hate does provoke give in comparison to how much damage you would have to deal to gather the same amount of hate?

12-11-2003, 09:05 PM	#3
ChezGod Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 47 Style: Light Theme V7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0x in 0 Posts	WHat about.. What about a Dark Knight? What should a Dark Knight do to keep aggro of himself?

12-12-2003, 06:06 PM	#4
Izual Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 478 Style: Light Theme V7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0x in 0 Posts	Why would a dark knight want to keep aggro? I don't know about you, but I take too much aggro as it is with damage alone. The tanks in my parties can barely keep the mob off me:sweat: I suppose if you had to tank for some reason you would want to do a good job at keeping aggro. If your damage alone isn't enough, and you don't have provoke, use abilities like last resort that generate hate just by being activated. You can cancel it right after you activate it to avoid taking hits with the lower defense. It isn't ideal, but then drks weren't meant to tank in the first place. Casting spells will generate some hate too, though the kind of magic you're using doesn't seem to make much of a difference. EDIT: I think I read that wrong, and after seeing it again I'm guessing of = off, not of = on:spin: If so, just disregard this post:p __________________ www.lunariansls.com

12-19-2003, 11:48 AM	#5
Kagi Member Bronze Ribbon of Service Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Columbus OH, Singapore Posts: 619 Style: Light Theme V7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0x in 0 Posts	Chez, get a good pld (or nin or whatever tank). The job of keeping hate off you is not yours, it is mainly your tank's. Of course you need to be aware of your own damage, like you don't use Souleater+Last Resort+Berserk+some mad WS and expect the tank to keep it on him/her... __________________

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12-11-2003, 07:20 PM	#2
Star Sibyl Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 184 Style: Light Theme V7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0x in 0 Posts	As far as I know, hate only falls on a character for two reasons: the ability Provoke is executed by player X or player X deals the highest amount of damage within a pt. So basically if player X seems to consistently deal the most damage within the pt, the hate will most likely continue to fall on him/her. Also player Y can execute Provoke and bypass the default hate towards player X's high damage dealing. What all this means is that there is no range of different damage dealing in equivalence to Provoke. Provoke is just one way to keep the hate off of whoever the highest damage dealer is...which if a BLM exists in the pt, it would be him/her...or in the case of a WHM which would also create hate towards that player. Bottom line, if you're a WAR, just keep pressing your Provoke macro and if you're a BLM/WHM/RDM, choose wisely when to cast your spells.

12-26-2003, 01:28 AM	#7
LEOsh Junior Member Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 89 Style: Light Theme V7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0x in 0 Posts	This is straight out from a Japanese website. I don't have the url but this is what was said. Just to summarize: Hate is built up in several ways. -damage inflicted (magic or melee) -enemy weakening spells/skills/songs -curing spells/songs -skills that increase your stats - like berserk -chohatsu (Provoke in English?) The amount of hate it generates differs. Like cure may generate less nate whereas provoke generates more in an instant. Over time and as the enemy attacks and hits a player, the hate for that player decreases. However healers usually don't get hit thus hate only adds on (although some will be decreasing as time passes). Thus the importance of regular "provokes". Sorry, this isn't really answering the original question. :sweat:

01-04-2004, 05:59 PM	#8
Somajan Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 330 Style: Light Theme V7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0x in 0 Posts	I've found that using 2 dex rings as a paladin helps with holding onto the hate well, I'm not quite sure but it worked for me during the beta days, But now with those +2 stat rings I think I'll eventually buy one of the +2 dex and +2 vit rings and use both.