This job is too easy. - Final Fantasy XI :: Dreams in Vana'diel :: Community

Raitox · 06-10-2008, 05:09 PM

A PLD has all those tools BEFORE level 40. The first time I personally lost hate was at level 60, with Tachi: Yukikaze. First time I lost hate as NIN? Level 18.

Voke
Flash
Shieldbash/sentinel
cures for steady hate gain

Ninja 1-39
Voke... debuffs that are kinda pointless before ni

Ninja 40-53
Spam wheel. Efficient, but about 1 million gil in levels. Ni debuffs.

Ninja 54-75

Damage, really. Meripo doesn't matter really.

...and.... sure, Utsu is broken. Shadows and dual wield does not make a job. That is all subbable. I want a fucking JA that doesn't make me commit suicide or is meritable. Something to enhance us as DD's, ANYTHING. Anyway.

NIN tanking up to meripo levels, actually requires good weapons, and a dedication to the job by paying for tools. A gimpy NIN won't keep hate at all.

PLD, on the other hand?

Voke every 30 seconds, derp.
Flash every 45, derp.
Shield Bash or Sentinel every few, derp.
Rampart, derp.
Reprisal, "O hay! Now I take even less damage!"
Warcry, Derp.

It's a damn good thing NIN is a better choice than PLD for meripo.

When will S-E stop buffing PLD ? When shield blocks 100% of the time?

Vyuru · 06-10-2008, 05:10 PM

Quote:

NIN tanking up to meripo levels, actually requires good weapons, and a dedication to the job my paying for tools. A gimpy NIN won't keep hate at all.

Even a well geared and well played ninja will find it difficult to keep hate against equally well geared and well played DDs unless they are holding back, which, if there is no Thief in the party, they will be forced to hold back if they don't want to get hit.

Quote:

It's a damn good thing NIN is a better choice than PLD for meripo.

Highly debatable.

Quote:

but Ninja has not gotten anything since the game has started.

So, merits don't count?

And if we all excluded abilities and spells that should have already been in the game, how many jobs have gotten anything "new"?

Quote:

They don't compare to Warriors or Samurai's in merit.

That is probably debatable depending on puppet used and skill levels. I've seen my friend's puppet toss out some wicked damage.

Feba · 06-10-2008, 05:14 PM

I'm afraid of catching a terminal case of stupid here, so I only read the title, but cheer up emo nin.

Raitox · 06-10-2008, 05:16 PM

Sorry, but no time soon. Our AF is black for a reason.

Feba · 06-10-2008, 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by Raitox

Sorry, but no time soon. Our AF is black for a reason. TO MATCH OUR HEARTS.

You know, Taskmage was right.

Mog · 06-10-2008, 05:19 PM

This is old news.

Paladins can natively hold better hate than ninjas, but each have their own uses and are situational.

Raitox · 06-10-2008, 05:21 PM

Thank you for a non-biased, informative approach to this situation. This isn't much of an argument between the two jobs as it is me retaliating to a barrage of flames. And yes, I've subbed Red Mage for Barfire.

Vyuru:

1. I'm saying that a well geared NIN will, and should, have hate on him at least 60% of the time. Not more, because, if you have a Samurai firing off WS left and right, what are you going to do with just Provoke and Damage?

2. I've never had a PLD out damage my NIN.

3. Yeah Monomi should've been in the game -- we have an invisible spell, why not sneak? We're Ninjas, after all. Sange is in no way useful; NIN/DRK tanking no, meripo no you need your shadows up. Useless. San wheel? Won't touch Ni wheel in damage unless merited more. And you can't merit them all fully. Expertise - Useful.

Did you know NIN is the only job in the game with no natural job abilities (This is excluding two hours).

4. I wish I partied with your friend.

Ameroth · 06-10-2008, 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by Raitox

This isn't much of an argument between the two jobs as it is me retaliating to a barrage of flames.

Well when you state your opinions/anecdotal evidence as being facts, you can kinda expect that coming.

Raitox · 06-10-2008, 05:41 PM

But can you really deny that, with a touch of a few macros you'll have hate for a good portion of the battle as a Paladin, whereas as a NIN it's like "gl dude, provoke and katana dmg is it".

Murphie · 06-10-2008, 06:01 PM

I still don't see why it's a bad thing that a job that was built to tank is good at tanking, but a job that wasn't originally intended to tank but can has a bit of trouble with it.

Ameroth · 06-10-2008, 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by Raitox

But can you really deny that, with a touch of a few macros you'll have hate for a good portion of the battle as a Paladin, whereas as a NIN it's like "gl dude, provoke and katana dmg is it".

No I won't deny holding hate is relatively easy for a PLD. But I won't refer to the job as retarded or "too easy." On the contrary, I use that evidence to suggest PLD is the superior tank in these situations.

You said it yourself, most NINs will struggle to hold hate at first; PLDs will begin applying JAs and spells to increase enmity. So your main argument is that you are peeved that "your" job has to work to do something that another job is just naturally better at. Sounds like the angry MNK saying DRK is too easy because they deal spike damage easier.

Raitox · 06-10-2008, 06:09 PM

No, Ninja wasn't meant to tank. But players made a tank out of it. So, could S-E find a way to balance hate tools to Paladin and Ninja? Yes. Have they? No. That pisses me off to no end.

WishMaster3K · 06-10-2008, 06:10 PM

Prons · 06-10-2008, 06:10 PM

Ninjas are emo that's why they wear black.

Murphie · 06-10-2008, 06:11 PM

The legion of NIN tanks at 75 says that it's not actually that necessary. Is it harder to hold hate? Yes. Because that's not what NIN is good at. Is it easier to tank while still putting out a fair amount of damage? Yes. Because that's what NIN is good at.

It's not as though NIN needs help with invites. Or soloability. Or endgame (or mid-game) viability. They aren't super fantastic with the enmity though so suddenly we should feel bad for them? A bloo bloo bloo, your nearly broken job isn't perfect.