[Karinya]

Assault Jerkin is free... sort of. Ditto Jaeger Ring. But yeah, a lot of DD gear is very expensive, which is a big barrier for a job that can't make money worth a damn because they kill slower than anyone except BRD and WHM and aren't wanted for most commonly done BCNM fights.

There aren't many mobs where I'd be comfortable wearing -30 Evasion; I don't much like getting hit every swing *during* Flash, as well as outside it. -AGI is going to hurt your shield proc rate, too. Evasion and shield aren't going to happen on every hit, or often enough to rely on them for any particular hit. But they do add up when you look at the damage taken over an entire fight - and the MP someone has to spend to repair that damage before you're ready for another fight. It's no good to kill the monster 2 seconds faster if the healer needs an extra 5 seconds rest before the next pull.

You should look at the performance of the whole party and see how you can improve that, not just focus everything on reducing your damage taken as much as possible, I agree. Sometimes increasing your damage dealt is a good way to do that. Sometimes it isn't as good as other things you could be doing. Lifebelt isn't giving up much (below the levels for Warwolf, anyway), but Hauby is quite another matter, even aside from its cost.

By a DD-heavy party I meant a party with a lot of DD members, not one where each individual DD is doing more damage than normal (because of low level or otherwise vulnerable targets). Something like PLD DRK DRG MNK WHM RDM - not ideal, perhaps, but it's quite possible that you'll get into parties like that. Trying to push your personal damage higher in that kind of setup isn't going to pay off as much, regardless of whether the mobs are VT or IT.


P.S. Hauby also loses significant enmity compared to AF or Adaman Cuirass. Depending on the monster you might or might not make that up with increased damage.

[Timian]

{Deleted}

[Timian]

Originally Posted by Karinya

Assault Jerkin is free... sort of. Ditto Jaeger Ring. But yeah, a lot of DD gear is very expensive, which is a big barrier for a job that can't make money worth a damn because they kill slower than anyone except BRD and WHM and aren't wanted for most commonly done BCNM fights.

There aren't many mobs where I'd be comfortable wearing -30 Evasion; I don't much like getting hit every swing *during* Flash, as well as outside it. -AGI is going to hurt your shield proc rate, too. Evasion and shield aren't going to happen on every hit, or often enough to rely on them for any particular hit. But they do add up when you look at the damage taken over an entire fight - and the MP someone has to spend to repair that damage before you're ready for another fight. It's no good to kill the monster 2 seconds faster if the healer needs an extra 5 seconds rest before the next pull.

You should look at the performance of the whole party and see how you can improve that, not just focus everything on reducing your damage taken as much as possible, I agree. Sometimes increasing your damage dealt is a good way to do that. Sometimes it isn't as good as other things you could be doing. Lifebelt isn't giving up much (below the levels for Warwolf, anyway), but Hauby is quite another matter, even aside from its cost.

By a DD-heavy party I meant a party with a lot of DD members, not one where each individual DD is doing more damage than normal (because of low level or otherwise vulnerable targets). Something like PLD DRK DRG MNK WHM RDM - not ideal, perhaps, but it's quite possible that you'll get into parties like that. Trying to push your personal damage higher in that kind of setup isn't going to pay off as much, regardless of whether the mobs are VT or IT.


P.S. Hauby also loses significant enmity compared to AF or Adaman Cuirass. Depending on the monster you might or might not make that up with increased damage.

1. What? "Can't make money"?
I'm currently packing about 950mill worth of gear (at current price rates), and about 300 mill in cash. Job has nothing to do with how much money you earn. You just have to know what you're doing.

2. Haubergeon rocks. You have an evasion skill cap at 225. You're not gonna dodge anything over an EM on a steady basis no matter what you do. The -evasion doesn't hurt you at all.

3. More importantly you're not meant to be wearing a DD-setup to a party in dire need of a steady blood-tank. You wear it to a TP burn, or as a PLD/NIN DD.
It goes without saying that enmity doesn't mean *anything* in a TP burn, as the mob is
supposed to die before any real damage is done. If you can't cope with the hate you get from Flash (and voke, if you're still subbing WAR at merit level) without additional enmity in a TP burn - you're not burning. You go in > get initial hate > unleash.
Your timers shouldn't even be back up by the time the mob hits the ground.

4. -AGI is not a problem.
Again, you don't go DD-setup if you're tanking things that hit you hard and often.
Shield proc rate is completely irrelevant, most importantly since you should be /NIN and not even using a shield. Secondly, if you are using a shield (/WAR) with a DD setup, you're using a Viking Shield or a Tatami for the attack/str boosts - not for the blocks.

I have no problem seeing why you have little faith in playing DD PLD, because you really don't even seem to understand the most basic consepts of how it's done.



PS.

Lmnop

I stand corrected about one thing. WAR does have higher base STR than DRG.
I clearly wasn't remembering correctly. Kudos to you.
Phalanx Rings are useless though.
10 def? Added to what, 500? There are better things to wear in the ring slots, like STR, Accuracy, Enmity, VIT or even MP (depending on situations obviously).

[Armando]

There aren't many mobs where I'd be comfortable wearing -30 Evasion; I don't much like getting hit every swing *during* Flash, as well as outside it. -AGI is going to hurt your shield proc rate, too. Evasion and shield aren't going to happen on every hit, or often enough to rely on them for any particular hit. But they do add up when you look at the damage taken over an entire fight - and the MP someone has to spend to repair that damage before you're ready for another fight. It's no good to kill the monster 2 seconds faster if the healer needs an extra 5 seconds rest before the next pull.

Believe me, I don't get hit through Flash all of the time. I'd be lying if I said I don't get hit through Flash more often, but it's still not as often as you'd think. Either way, if you're squirmish about the whole -30 Evasion you could macro in Gallant Surcoat, benefit from 2 more enmity, and you've already gotten rid of -20 Evasion during Flash. Or, if that's too much trouble, you could use a Byrnie or Assault Jerkin and not be too worse off. Still, there's two sides to the coin and without hard numbers (which are almost impossible to get in this case,) we could debate all day and never be able to reach a real conclusion. You could argue that killing the mob slightly faster won't help if you take much damage, but also remember that having higher damage output serves two purposes. The first is increasing your own damage, and sure, it won't increase enough for anyone else to really care. But if you hold hate better as a result, then every DD's damage goes up as they hold back less.

As a minor side note, I have not noticed any detriment to my shielding. If you can't tell the difference in shield rates between an Elvaan and a non-Elvaan PLD, then the loss of 5 AGI is equally trivial. While AGI is said to contribute to shielding, I don't believe it contributes significantly enough to worry about, just like even a high-AGI build doesn't see enough extra parrying to bother with.

P.S. Hauby also loses significant enmity compared to AF or Adaman Cuirass. Depending on the monster you might or might not make that up with increased damage.

You go from 13 Enmity to 11, assuming you're wearing full AF and a High Breath Mantle. The loss of 2 enmity is fair enough if I gain 12.5 Accuracy, 12.5 Attack, and +1 DMG. It's true that you lose 2 enmity, but it's really a matter of "13 enmity applied to less and weaker hits, or 11 enmity applied to more and stronger hits." Once again, the question is nearly impossible to give a defined answer, but it's been working well enough for me.

1. What? "Can't make money"?
I'm currently packing about 950mill worth of gear (at current price rates), and about 300 mill in cash. Job has nothing to do with how much money you earn. You just have to know what you're doing.

I have to agree with this. It's true that money doesn't grow on trees, and that applies to FFXI, but I never really had to spend countless hours farming for my Haubergeon. The only limiting factor was that the other two people I BCNM with are slow to collect seals, since they're busy with other things. Still, you'd be amazed how many seals you can collect starting a low-level job or simply levellig your NPC buddy on EP mobs. I've never gone under the 350 seal mark. If only I could use up all those seals XD

[Malacite]

1. What? "Can't make money"?
I'm currently packing about 950mill worth of gear (at current price rates), and about 300 mill in cash. Job has nothing to do with how much money you earn. You just have to know what you're doing.

Where did you get so much money O _ O;;;;

[Timian]

Originally Posted by Malacite

Where did you get so much money O _ O;;;;

Crafting (Goldsmithing main)
Paid KSNM Runs
BCNMs
HNM Drop Sales for split profit

Note that Farming isn't on my list.
I hate farming, and would never advice it to anyone
except completely new players with no other choice.

I also have a 5-man "static" that will take
anyone through CoP from Chapter 7 to finish
for a price. You'd be surprised how many people
are willing to pay to get U/O and the 4 pot BCNM done.

[Mog]

Originally Posted by Timian

I also have a 5-man "static" that will take
anyone through CoP from Chapter 7 to finish
for a price. You'd be surprised how many people
are willing to pay to get U/O and the 4 pot BCNM done.

That's an interesting idea. What's the average you get from each person?

[Malacite]

>. > most craft profits (at least the ones I can do >. <) are relatively low these days. I've been tempted to max out my smithing though since Dark Steel is at last a good money maker again.

Either that or cloth, those two crafts seem to make the most bling.

[Timian]

Originally Posted by Mog

That's an interesting idea. What's the average you get from each person?

Depends entirely on the person.
If it's an obviously struggling individual,
with poor gear etc, we'll charge him like 500k. (100k each).

If he's decked out in "pimp" gear, and has 100+3 smithing,
we'll gladly charge him 2-3 mill.

[Empedocles]

To the OP: No, at that level, you really shouldn't need a DD 'set'. A couple of STR rings and some Rice Dumplings will help do some more damage.

Later on (and during) your career, you will however want to invest (quest, buy, whatever) in DD pieces to form a set ~Lv.55 onwards.

But always carry a full tanking set/food with you, we are Paladins after all, and you never know when your leader is feeling ambitious.

[Lmnop]

Originally Posted by Timian

Phalanx Rings are useless though.
10 def? Added to what, 500? There are better things to wear in the ring slots, like STR, Accuracy, Enmity, VIT or even MP (depending on situations obviously).

Sorry, I should've clarified. I mean that a DD job should have a gear swap that includes Phalanx rings because they're incredibly cheap and effective for a job that doesn't specialize in defense. They're quite useless for PLD, I agree. My comparison was that DDs can strap on 2x Phalanx rings and suddenly be at Defense Bonus II level, whereas there's no cheap piece of gear that a PLD can strap on to suddenly get Accuracy Bonus II level benefits. The closest is lifebelt, which is ~8x the price of 2 phalanx rings.

Money is an issue. A lot of people who aren't already an "ideal" job (the ones that are in high demand so money naturally flows to them, even if they're money-making impaired) simply don't have the capacity for making loads of dough. I, for one, cannot stand the idea of thinking about economics while playing a game. I hate "playing the market." I go farm where it's quiet and there's not a lot of profit, just because it means I don't have to deal with people. And yeah, I'm poor.

My one consolation: when you get to 60 (not 50, 'cuz you don't have any IS yet), Assault items still sell quite nice.

[Arctic Wolf]

Paladins that like to deal Damage, I think they should try Dark Knight or Warrior for a change. Dark Knight is a lot like Paladin, I noticed.

[Vandros]

In my experience, it's not that the DD style of Pld's *like* to do dmg as much as a combination of factors that leads up to holding hate better. In general, the mobs of ToA have fewer hit points, don't hit quite as hard (outside specials like Incenerate. How I hated you, fire crawlers), and are what the DDs refer to as 'squishy'. As a result, the DDs are hitting the monsters harder, and you aren't getting hit quite as hard, which means you don't have quite the cure potential.

Think back to 25, 26, if you're leveling outside of Kazham. It's a difficult level sometimes, because the Pld just isn't taking enough dmg to hold hate with cures. Same thing, really. Yes, you'll get hit harder while wearing DD gear than VIT/def gear, but not by much. Food makes quite a different story, I prefer to exp with sushi as soon as the mobs turn to VT and low IT, but if it's still IT+, to IT++, even I break out the tacos, and I'm an avid proponent of holding hate with dmg and trusting your shield to mitigate most of your dmg.

If you *do* want to do nothing but dmg, of course, Pld isn't the job for you. Go to warrior, or Sam, or Drk, or any of the hundred jobs we have who do a better job at it than we do.