I've met my match...

[Thoronas]

Last night I had this wacky galkan rng in my pt in Terrigan who did something I've never seen....

He pulled hate that even my 2 hour couldn't pull back.

We were on chain 4 or chain 5 fight a raptor and we needed to kill it fast. So he does sidewinder for fragmentation (I think) followed immediately by barrage followed then by another sidewinder. The total damage ended up being something like 2600 damage in the space of 20 seconds.

By this point I'd used cover and it was still cooling down. I was out of mp after spamming flash and cure 3. All my Ja's were down except Invincible. So I popped it hoping to keep the guy alive since he had been dropped to ~150 hp. It didn't even glance at me. :sweat: :sweat:

Anyone else had a similar situation?

[DarkHero]

yes.. i've seen stuff fall away from me after 2 hours at times;; i'm such a sucky pld ; ;

[Buuyon]

momma had a baby and his head popped off

[Elesirdur]

Most good Rangers realize that Sidewinder and Barrage get mega enmity; I've played with a couple that alert Paladin's to get their Cover macro ready when before they actually activate those attacks

However, if you're having difficulty establishing enmity in the first place make sure these Rangers/Dark Knights/Theives don't renkei right off the bat or else all hell will break loose.

In any event, if they don't realize how much enmity they're generating and if you try your best to save them but you still fail, then those Rangers, etc. aren't doing a very good job in the first place.

[Loial]

The strength of PLD job abilities does not increase with level.

Shield Bash normally pulls hate instantly @ level 15. However, @ 50, it doesn't do much.

The same is true with Sentinel and Invincible. It simply cannot pull hate back 100% of the time. Sad but true.

Best thing to do is try to anticipate situations like yours. If you can, manage to keep Sentinel/Shield Bash or Rampart handy...

If you don't have the abilities to solidify hate then what I find myself do in a situation when the RNG does Sidewinder -> Barrage -> Sidewinder is I flash first, and count the RNG shadows ( I assume your smart RNG is sub NIN).

When shadows wear, you then Flash. RNG refresh shadows. Count more shadows, then Cover. RNG refresh shadows. At this point, you know that Provoke will certainly be up if it wasn't before. You then let loose with whatever you got. Refresh should have given you enough MP for some sort of cure. Toss out a cure, then if you were hasted, Flash will be ready.

If you have a suicidal sidewindering RNG, then you need to work together to maximize their damage and minimize their damage taken.

I don't know if I agree with using Invincible for the sole reason of "maybe" pulling back hate to save the RNG. You need to keep in mind that in certain PT situations, if you drop, the rest of the PT is doomed. It really can be a crap shoot.

I like to keep Invincible handy if the PT is overrun with adds that cannot be kept controlled, and the mages are low on MP. If it looks like the BLM or Mage/BLM cannot escape out because of hate on them and there will be no cures landing on you, then it is imperative to give up killing the current mob. You need to focus on getting all the adds on you (voke one, flash the other, maybe shield bash the third, etc) and toss up Invincible so they are only hitting you and the mages cannot be one-shotted or interrupted while the escape the PT out.

The high probability of saving 5-6 PT members > saving 1 PT member.

[imac2much]

Originally posted by Loial
The strength of PLD job abilities does not increase with level.

Shield Bash normally pulls hate instantly @ level 15. However, @ 50, it doesn't do much.

The same is true with Sentinel and Invincible. It simply cannot pull hate back 100% of the time. Sad but true.

Great post Loial, but regarding this point, isn't this what all our +enmity is for? So in a sense it does get a bit stronger around 54-60 with AF then again 73 with adaman and AF2... just a thought.

[Lyonesse]

This sort of aggro generation happens on occasion. You really need to adjust aggro generating tactics in response to this because as Loial points out, our abilities don't grow in aggro generating strength so we need to find ways to supplement them.

[greysenn]

We were on chain 4 or chain 5 fight a raptor and we needed to kill it fast. So he does sidewinder for fragmentation (I think) followed immediately by barrage followed then by another sidewinder. The total damage ended up being something like 2600 damage in the space of 20 seconds.

Simple, they need to wait until this will either a) Kill the mob, or b) Time it so that the mob will be dead by the time your JA's wear off.

If they don't, and eat it after this, it's their own damn fault. Unloading like this early in a fight does NOT result in a significantly faster kill time than unloading a bit later when the combination will finish the mob.

Edit: Bah, left a not out of there

[Somajan]

Problem with Flash is that sometimes it will get resisted, so you just wasted 25 mp on an enmity spell.

But yeah, I had the same situation with a ranger in Teriggan who pulled a mob off me with a 2400 slug shot, then a 1000+ Distortion skillchain.

I've felt gimped ever since.

[Thoronas]

Wow, some of these responses have been amazing.

I forgot to mention in the first post that the rng didn't actually die (he got lucky). During the entire party session we never really felt "out of control", even though the party was pulling in at a maniac's pace. Since we were so close to a zone line I never felt like my 2 hour was really needed as more then a last resort for hate. Too be honest that was the first time I'd used it in an exp party for quite some time.

The rng and I had been getting along quite well and I think he was having fun testing me in away, seeing how much he could get away with. He was initially reeling in his hate and when he saw I capable of handling at the very least sidewinder + skill chain he started pushing the boundaries further and further with what I have already described being the pinnacle of the day for damage. I was taking his life into his own hands and he knew it so if he had died there would have been no animosity about it. It was just an exciting party with a situation I had never experienced before (outside of bcnm battles).

[Lyonesse]

2400 Slug Shot? I haven't seen Slug Shot break 1k regularly yet at 66 O_o.

[Dark Aphalite]

While fighting Shadow Lord I have felt the gimpest ever.
I got a nice SATA to start the show and always voked or flashed when they were up, aswell as use all my JAs.
Within 3 minutes of the fight I lost hate.. but I mean COMPLETE hate.
SL was glued to the Black Mage and he cried that I use Invincible or something so I Invincible + Voke + Flash but SL didn't even twitch for a second.
I was like... "Um... shall I just log out now or..?" XD
So yea, I only tanked 15% of the fight.

Losing hate is the biggest confidence crusher for PLD.

[Dark Aphalite]

While fighting Shadow Lord I have felt the gimpest ever.
I got a nice SATA to start the show and always voked or flashed when they were up, aswell as use all my JAs.
Within 3 minutes of the fight I lost hate.. but I mean COMPLETE hate.
SL was glued to the Black Mage and he cried that I use Invincible or something so I Invincible + Voke + Flash but SL didn't even twitch for a second.
I was like... "Um... shall I just log out now or..?" XD
So yea, I only tanked 15% of the fight.

Losing hate is the biggest confidence crusher for PLD.

[Dark Aphalite]

While fighting Shadow Lord I have felt the gimpest ever.
I got a nice SATA to start the show and always voked or flashed when they were up, aswell as use all my JAs.
Within 3 minutes of the fight I lost hate.. but I mean COMPLETE hate.
SL was glued to the Black Mage and he cried that I use Invincible or something so I Invincible + Voke + Flash but SL didn't even twitch for a second.
I was like... "Um... shall I just log out now or..?" XD
So yea, I only tanked 15% of the fight.

Losing hate is the biggest confidence crusher for PLD.

[Dark Aphalite]

While fighting Shadow Lord I have felt the gimpest ever.
I got a nice SATA to start the show and always voked or flashed when they were up, aswell as use all my JAs.
Within 3 minutes of the fight I lost hate.. but I mean COMPLETE hate.
SL was glued to the Black Mage and he cried that I use Invincible or something so I Invincible + Voke + Flash but SL didn't even twitch for a second.
I was like... "Um... shall I just log out now or..?" XD
So yea, I only tanked 15% of the fight.

Losing hate is the biggest confidence crusher for PLD.