[imac2much]

I feel most comfortable in this forum, so I'm posting here. Sorry it's not totally on topic with the whole Paladin theme, but too bad

As can be guessed from the topic, I plan to retire my Paladin soon. Several factors have moved me to this decision... I think Paladin is a great and fun job, but...

1) Lack of end-game motivation. I feel that we are not as necessary as other jobs in most end game scenarios. NIN/WAR and lv 74 WAR/NIN do a better job of tanking than us by significant amounts. I mean, PLDs CAN tank still, and can still hold aggro better than NIN or WAR, but they'll be taking considerably more damage than someone with Utsusemi:ni...
2) No bones about it, in XP PT's with a good THF, a rich NIN/WAR makes a better main tank. Several of my friends have once in a while PT'ed with a rich JP NIN tank, and just gush about how much XP they got and how fast they killed things with no downtimes, and how WHM wasn't even necessary. I understand that it's mainly situational (NIN tanks aren't good against cockatrices or other things that stone/paralyze you), but you can just avoid those for the most part. It makes me feel that I am just a cheap alternative tank.
3) My server's community. Well, actually there's an awful lot of great people on Midgardsormr. But the few extremely idiotic scumbags on the server (i.e. Ceciliantas) really just piss me off. These kinds of people wouldn't survive in the real world with that kind of bastardish personality, which is one huge advantage of the real world. Not that other MMOs don't have their share of assholes as well, but at least in AO they were moderated and handled a LOT better. I barely see any GMs in FFXI, and for the most part from what people tell me, they're totally aloof about player issues. In AO and, from what I hear, EQ, the GMs are much more interactive and "in the know" with the player community. Such is not the case in FFXI.
4) Real life issues. I may be changing groups at my job at NASA, and I am also thinking about accepting a job at an equity trader position. Regardless, these job opportunities + hanging out with friends won't allow me to play all that much.

FFXI, for better or for worse, is extremely party-oriented, more than any other MMO I played. I mean, AO is party-oriented too, but you could theoretically solo all the way to the highest level in that game, and the XP system was set up so that you could get great xp with non-full parties... that way I could just join a friend or 2 and get some good xp, without the hassle of spending hours making an "optimal" party. Plus, the level range could be as wide as 10-20 without a significant different on the most part, whereas in FFXI anything more than 4 is considered taboo.

So I am considering either leaving FFXI for good and playing other games in short spurts on my free time, or maybe playing a less stressful job. This is where I ask for your opinions... I understand that BST is the only job where you can either solo or duo for acceptable XP, but I SERIOUSLY dread leveling my WHM to 30... not just because I'm Galka, but also because of the horrible parties at those levels. Also, I do not enjoy the job of WHM *at all*.

Would other subjobs work? I recently read a post in the BST forum about a Galka BST/NIN... now that sounds fun! I always wanted to make a NIN, and I think I would enjoy leveling it to 30 or so... then switch to BST/NIN. How expensive would it be to level a NIN to 30?

Hm... I wonder if a BST/NIN is really viable...?

Anyway, I'll still lurk on the forums at work, so I won't be totally gone (again, for better or for worse :sweat: ) Good luck to all of you aspiring Paladins, and thanks to everyone who put up with my anal testing and arguments

[Abriael]

Go for NIN imac, for what i saw (despite what one would think), galka NIN perform very well, both as a tank and as a damager (with war or sam subjobs), and it's quite fun to play.

Anyway i'm quite sure you will miss your paladin and will go back to it, before or later ^_^

[METDeath]

Tricks for quickly leveling whm:

1) get all your scrolls that you'll need for a few levels (five to ten levels in advance till 25, then you only have a few scrolls that you need)

2) one astral ring makes a world of difference, and you can use it on your bst/whm

3) the minimal mp issue becomes somewhat less an issue at 21 with regen, that is a great mp saver, i know galka rdm/whm that played fine and had no mp issue as a main healer for a trio pt

4) you get some slightly cheaper food for leveling whm, apple pies are like 3k a stack usually

5) play with friends, get as few random people as possible (this applies to all low level job leveling

that said, i quickly leveled whm when i played it, made all my own parties, and since i was the whm i tended to lose pt members more than have the pt actually break. as for bst, bst/nin is viable, but you don't really get the effects of it till the usual 20+ there are threads in the beastmaster board about subbing a melee on bst, read those, they'll be helpful, just mind the flames. other than that save your pld gear just in case a friend needs your help, and for farming

[greysenn]

Bummer Imac, your posts were some good stuff to read. Good luck in whatever you do next though.

[sylvanas]

another pld in my level range gone ._.

theres none of you left on midgard..the ones that are, belong to an spt. long days of seeking ahead :dead:

[Keji]

so ur basically saying pld especially hume ones suck for hnms and stuff? so there is really nothing fun to do end game? heck in gonna level nin and do war/nin

[kainzero]

1) Lack of end-game motivation. I feel that we are not as necessary as other jobs in most end game scenarios. NIN/WAR and lv 74 WAR/NIN do a better job of tanking than us by significant amounts. I mean, PLDs CAN tank still, and can still hold aggro better than NIN or WAR, but they'll be taking considerably more damage than someone with Utsusemi:ni...

2) No bones about it, in XP PT's with a good THF, a rich NIN/WAR makes a better main tank. Several of my friends have once in a while PT'ed with a rich JP NIN tank, and just gush about how much XP they got and how fast they killed things with no downtimes, and how WHM wasn't even necessary. I understand that it's mainly situational (NIN tanks aren't good against cockatrices or other things that stone/paralyze you), but you can just avoid those for the most part. It makes me feel that I am just a cheap alternative tank.

as cool as a nin tank is... i've never seen too many around. i dunno, if i was a melee job, i'd think that a PLD is much more reliable than a NIN.
i really wish they'd change NIN so it wouldn't be a tank class.

3) My server's community. Well, actually there's an awful lot of great people on Midgardsormr. But the few extremely idiotic scumbags on the server (i.e. Ceciliantas) really just piss me off. These kinds of people wouldn't survive in the real world with that kind of bastardish personality, which is one huge advantage of the real world. Not that other MMOs don't have their share of assholes as well, but at least in AO they were moderated and handled a LOT better. I barely see any GMs in FFXI, and for the most part from what people tell me, they're totally aloof about player issues. In AO and, from what I hear, EQ, the GMs are much more interactive and "in the know" with the player community. Such is not the case in FFXI.

Yea really. After being unfairly ditched by my LS, I don't have a community anymore ><
Although I do appreciate the fact that they add new content regularly, the general consensus is that there are a lot of bad parties. Why people don't try anymore... I dunno.
What sucks is that a lot of the quests require unselfish PTs. Sure I did a pickup group for AF1... but I don't think I can do a pickup group for AF2-5. And BCNM40 pickup PTs can be hell. I really doubt I'd ever find a group to do Brown Belt quest either. I like doing quests for the challenge as opposed to the reward, but so many people don't want to do it.

Oh well. I'm still stuck on Genkai 1. ><

[Weezingpipes]

Rugal, I grouped with an utterly craptastic jp NIN tonight, if that makes you feel any better. I'm sure you'd be a good NIN since you can afford the good equips and such (this guy couldn't apparently), but you know my opinion on NIN anyway.

Sad to see you go, one of the few people I've actually come to like on Midgardsormr. I agree, the community sucks a lot of ass just because of how people act but what can you do. I just don't think its worth quitting over, but thats my opinion and probably can't change yours if your mind is made up.

[Grizzlebeard]

Imac, come play EQ. :p

Sorry to hear you've discovered the vacuum of high end game in FFXI but I'm pleased to hear it confirmed by someone who's view I respect. I've wondered myself from the start whether all the hours lfp and grinding through keys, genkei and AF are worth getting to 75th only to go farm NMs to twink alts. Maybe if I hadn't spent nigh on four years grinding through EQ and doing similar things then I wouldn't mind this so much.

[Shiia]

In my LS (7people only) we have a lvl 73 pld who recently unretired. Pre 70s pld seems to not be so popular as a tank compared to ninja due to what you have stated. People prefer more offensive party to gain maximum amount of exp as possible. For instance Nin/war needs far less heals compared to pld (so I am told) so they can fill in the mages with no whm and move to rdm brd blm style.

However, post 70s pld gets parties over ninja for the soul purpose that they hunt more skeleton type mobs than ever. Rampare's Tomb bones seems popular and my friend told me he is getting more invites than he could even imagine pre 70s.

Not stopping you to retire your pld. At the end it is your call. Just informing the pld are more seeked 70+ than a ninja. At least my friend has noticed this.

[imac2much]

Thanks for all your comments and suggestions people... except for Grizzle for trying to force me into the dark side :mad: Hehe just kidding man.

Perhaps I really just need a break from PLD, then I'll get back into it, but meh. I think I'll level it to 66, sell my gluttony to get espadon (not that espadon >> gluttony... but to get the 500k to fund my new NIN or whatever ) and see how it goes from there.

I don't think FFXI is a bad game by any means. It does a LOT of things right that I would like to see in other games. However, the lack of high end game is no secret. You're right, all it amounts to is farming HNMs to twink alts. Well, S-E is obviously trying to remedy this, with the inclusion of Dynamis, and that's very respectable. But honestly, what is Dynamis other than more HNM farming? In an alliance of up to 50 people, do you really think individual play skill will be very pronounced?

Abriael: Yes... I'm very tempted. Yesterday I was going to buy zinc ores for some fame... then I noticed it was 300 gil each D: So then I went to giddeus and farmed necklaces... I did that til my inventory was full, but rice balls still cost me like 166 gil at Neptune Spire.. I heard you can't get utsusemi quest until it costs 156 =(

MET: You have some great suggestions. As much as I do not like the WHM subjob, I might level it anyway so I can do some 2 BST PT's with my close friends. I don't think BST/NIN would be very useful in a 2 BST PT.

Sylvanas: Well, the funny thing is that I get several PT invites when I don't lfg. But then I turn my flag on and I literally wait 3 hours with no invite. So meh :p

kain: Genkai 1 is evil o_o But regardless, I was amazed at how selfish much of this community was last night... I don't know, I feel like the average maturity of this MMORPG is very low, and the average greed and selfishness is very high. I never played EQ, but I know that AO's community wasn't nearly as self-centered. Plus, like I said, the GMs don't do jack in this game.

Weezing: I dunno about being able to afford NIN... I hate gilfarming as it is, and once my current funds dry up, what then? :p I want to maybe bring it to 30 to use it as a sub for BST, but we'll see I suppose.

Shiia: the problem isn't getting invites. PLDs can stille asily get invites at all levels due to the lack of good NINs. I'm just saying a good NIN is usually more sought after... I suppose since bones use so many AE attacks they wouldn't be as useful, but then you can just tell everyone to lay off the multihit WS's :p

Don't get me wrong, my post is not an attack on this game. I think it's a great game and all, but I just don't think it has much more than HNM camping, greed, camping, and greed at high levels. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's all I see.

[Zaptruder]

(| That's too bad.|)

[Kagi]

Rug, when you first broke the news to me in Boyahda I could hardly tank for the next few fights ; ; Your 'anal testing' (seriously where did you come up with that? <.< ) has benefited me (and I'm sure a lot of other plds) very very much. If not I would still be stuck using cure2s and wondering why I get hit for as much as the war next to me. Your words I respect a lot. ^^

From what I've experienced and heard, 60-70's are fairly nightmarish for us. Post 70, however, we still do have a place. I have also asked around with my importer and jp friends and plds still do tank HNMs. I was watching a King Behemoth fight by NC today, and their main tank was (by now the most famous pld on Midgard) Lei. Besides him was Nohl, another pld. I asked an importer friend about it and he said that nin was not so useful in this situation because of the AOE. In other NM fights plds also still tank, I was watching another LS fight the Bune with a pld tank. Take heart, Rug. If we were useless in HNM fights, large HNM LS's wouldn't be recruiting plds.

I agree that levelling gets very strenous after a while. I think I need a break from it as well, fairly soon. But I've grown much too attached to the job.. hopefully you have, too. As for the end game... well I suppose there's little else. I'm not sure about the greed part, I fight the very occasional HNM (if I'm lucky to be on when someone organizes a fight) for the fun of it, as do many other people I know.

For me, endgame will be getting to 75 and walking around raising people

All the best, Rugal. I'd welcome you back to the pld community on Midgard anyday. ^^

[Kaickul]

Originally posted by imac2much

2) No bones about it, in XP PT's with a good THF, a rich NIN/WAR makes a better main tank. Several of my friends have once in a while PT'ed with a rich JP NIN tank, and just gush about how much XP they got and how fast they killed things with no downtimes, and how WHM wasn't even necessary.

That is total crap. With a RDM after level 41, a PLD PT has just as little downtime as a NIN tank would, and no I dont want this to turn into a RDM , NIN, PLD thread. I am just stating that with a RDM in the PT there is no downtime.

Your post is a bit of a blow, considering you pretty much said PLDs are the blue collar tank. I will say this though, the only reason I didnt dump PLD was for two reasons. I saw a AF PLD/NIN beat the hell out of a high level AF NM faster than the AF BLM that was there before him.(No discussion needed, I am just telling you what I saw)
Secondly, I found out that the first class to beat Fenrir on the server I'm on was a PLD/NIN. Apparently, the defense and the use of Utsesumi was the only way to survive his strongest attack.

Do I use PLD/NIN in a PT?... heeeyyyyalll no. Until SE grants PLD the diversity that every other class has, PLD is a one subjob class in a PT. When I am out solo, PLD/NIN gives me the edge to add some stronger attack abilities to my class. There is only one other class that has a dual wield with A+ weapons.

If raising a NIN would prevent you from depriving us of your wisdom and keeping the rest of us PLDs in line, then by all means, do so.

PS: Tell NASA to get off their butts and build a better space shuttle. The Cadillac of space travel shoulda been replaced 10 years ago. :p

[Artonis]

wow dude that's a shocker.
Sure I'm not on the same server but man.


I bet lots of people look up to you with you being that high up.
I myself am hoping to find (an english speaking) high paladin on diabolos to eventually teach me the uber ways. But I won't be doing that till around 50. Then when I'm up in the high 60's to 70's myself I'll be "mentoring" up and comings to try and add some endgame purpose.

Then again this whole idea could be bogus and that idea won't fly.
But I like the idea of mentoring an up and coming..so even if I don't find anyone to teach me uber ways I'll still be doing in when I'm really high up.

Maybe you should try it out and see if it adds any endgame purpose for yourself.

support you regardless though. And good luck with new job.