[Malacite]

I'll be sure to bake plenty of humble pie for you all in the near future.

[Mystiqsoulchild]

Originally Posted by Malacite

I'll be sure to bake plenty of humble pie for you all in the near future.

LOL speaking of pie, did you see McCains new add for making fun of Obama for talking about Pie a lot?

YouTube - Obama pie collab

YouTube - Obama pie collab

[Firewind]

Does this mean that Obama actually has a policy now?

[Satimasu]

Originally Posted by Malacite

I'll be sure to bake plenty of humble pie for you all in the near future.

Because some of us can see through a socialist/marxist?

[Firewind]

I would have thought he was blind to political satire but your theory is so much better Sati.

[The Mauva Syndicate]

You know whenever I hear the bleating of the sheep about "Socialism" I always say - "REALLY So then you want to abolsih education, Social Security, medicare, Medicaid, Police, Fire and EMS services, as well as the military and be completely on your own right?"

There is then equally loud bleating about - "no no I mean REAL socialism, that's bad, what we have isn't socialism" - What the sheep mean is MARXISM - and since most folks either slept through History or were stoned through high school they can't seem to tell them apart. Marxism is a collectivist societal model - and there really aren't too many arguments you can make that makes EITHER candidate into a Marxist - as they aren't.

The worst part is that an ignorant, superstitious and scientific eschewing populace is INCOMPATIBLE with Marxism - a fact that the GOP conveniently ignores in their persistently pedantic and infantile attacks. Stupid people cannot be Marxists - it requires thought. Communism, now that requires nothing (Literally NO THOUGHT), which is why it fails everywhere.

If you can't spell ideology, you can't be a marxist, but you can be a republican or a democrat.

Think what we have isn't mild socialism? I've got news for you Jack - YES IT IS. Anytime a government uses money obtained from individuals and funds things which serve the greater society it IS socialism - admittedly a limited form, but it is what it is. It's all a matter of degree. But That IS socailism.

Thankfully this economic crisis is finally nailing the coffin shut on thirty years of incredibly bad libertarian ideas - and lets face it, the only people who really believe that claptrap are emotional cripples (I mean you Alan Greenspan) who read Ayn Rand as teenagers and never grew up. Libertarianism is DEAD thank god and maybe now we can finally all ACT like grownups and realize that we each and every one of us have a social responsibility to the rest of society.

Too bad the GOP has spent the last 30 years telling everyone that "Greed is good" - we know now, it aint so hot long term. In fact it's not just society destroying, its soul destroying as well.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

When people make the socialist comment, I tend to doubt they're worried about everyone turning into commies, but more worried about giving the government too much power over thier lives.

Obama wants to increase taxes on the wealthy? Well, do you realize what happens when the wealthy, the people who give us our jobs lose money in larger amounts?

They try to do more with less people, people lose jobs. Its happening right now even without higher taxes. So in this battered economy, Obama's great idea is to tax the wealthy more when they've lost money? Oh, yes, this isn't going to have any consequences at all...

Granted this would take years to go into effect, but the impact of what we're feeling now is also going to continue into the future as well.

And really, we've given the govenment lots and lots of money over the years through our taxes and nothing has improved. I seriously doubt giving the government more money is the best solution here because look where we ended up with what we did give them.

[Cometgreen]

Originally Posted by Malacite

Does anyone honestly give a shit? I agree it's an obscene amount of money but it's not like he got it illegally. I know that the point is it's the one promise he's broken, but given the circumstances I'll let it pass.

The sad fact is without that kind of money I'm not sure he would have been able to fight through all the lies and bull shit of the GOP. For the first time in history, the Democrats have been able to out spend them and we really need Obama in there to turn things around.

It'd be great if it didn't take this kind of obscene money to run for office, but it only seems like a lot to us. Combined, Mc Cain and Obama have spent just over 1.1 billion on their campaigns. The annual GDP of the USA is 14 trillion. In all seriousness it's a drop in the fucking bucket and there are far greater things to worry about.

To be clear about what you've said: A person has legitimately acquired a lot of money. This person really wants something; like, really wants it. Since it's his money, he feels there's nothing wrong with spending it as he wants, and he's willing to sink a lot of this money into achieving his goal.

Now, if the above concerns Obama's run for president, it's not a big deal. It's a drop in the fucking bucket. Does the same apply to a wealthy businessman? Say, a man earning more than $250,000 a year? We shouldn't care how much Obama is spending, and we shouldn't try to stop him from spending it, so clearly we shouldn't interfere with the businessman's bank account, right?

Originally Posted by Malacite

If you want to talk about big money, how about how Bush has spent more money than every president before him combined! What he's done to the country and the economy is IMO the greatest crime in American history, and he needs to pay dearly.

So I assume you disagree with the idiots out there like Nicholas Sarkozy and Paul Krugman who blame the financial crisis on a 'laissez-faire market', right?

Also, the President spends what is given to him by the Congress. Both presidential candidates are members of Congress, and both have voted for some massive and wasteful spending. Imagine what a Democratic Congress with an Obama presidency is going to spend...

Originally Posted by Mauva Syndicate

I think the easiest way to acheive campaign finance reform is TERM LIMITS - term limits would do more to balance Washington than any other single initiative.

Though you say campaign finance here, you go on to talk about corruption. Isn't this just attempting to fix the effect? Shouldn't we discuss the cause - the power that has been consolidated in D.C. and the gang of 535? Isn't that what draws the money and leads to corruption?

Originally Posted by Mauva Syndicate

You know whenever I hear the bleating of the sheep about "Socialism" I always say - "REALLY So then you want to abolsih education, Social Security, medicare, Medicaid, Police, Fire and EMS services, as well as the military and be completely on your own right?"

Yes. Utterly and completely.

Public education is a mess. Social Security is a fraud and completely unnecessary. The police can treat the public with little regard for the consequences. Fire and EMS... I dunno, could be cheaper and better? I don't think it'd be fair to call the military a socialist program, as it's a defining role of government and assumed by many liberal (in the classic sense) thinkers. A standing army, on the other hand, is completely unnecessary and dangerous.

...I just lost a bunch of you, didn't I?

Originally Posted by Mauva Syndicate

Thankfully this economic crisis is finally nailing the coffin shut on thirty years of incredibly bad libertarian ideas - and lets face it, the only people who really believe that claptrap are emotional cripples (I mean you Alan Greenspan) who read Ayn Rand as teenagers and never grew up. Libertarianism is DEAD thank god and maybe now we can finally all ACT like grownups and realize that we each and every one of us have a social responsibility to the rest of society.

Oh Jesus... so right after listing off a bunch of socialist programs, you claim we've been a libertarian country? This 'libertarian government' of the last 30 years has increased its spending from 450 billion to around 3 trillion (adjusted to 2000 dollars, the 1978 figure is about a trillion, and this inflation has been brought on by the government). You know that 85 billion they gave to AIG, without Congress' consent? Federal spending was 82 billion 50 years ago. The Treasury gave that to a private company in a single day. The government spends 65 times today what it did in 1930, when adjusted for inflation (if you don't adjust, it's 815 times).

We live under the most costly government in human history. To say anything happening today is a repudiation of small government principles, or capitalism in general, is unadulterated nonsense.

[Skoal]

Originally Posted by Malacite

I'll be sure to bake plenty of humble pie for you all in the near future.

Make mine Key Lime please.

Anyone with any sense knows that is the best time in our lifetime to be a democrat presidential candidate. I bet that little guy who cheated on his wife with cancer would still pull out a win since America is so anti-Republican. Everyone is voting for a jr Senator without batting an eye.

I hope and pray all the crazy Hollywood celebrities, every media outlet (media always tells the truth, right?), and CNN's #1 fan Malacite are right. I hope I am not paying for some bum to have health care just like I am now paying for bums to have 10 kids and not work.

Who am I kidding? Bye bye hard earned money. Hello sending illegal aliens to college for free.

[Feba]

Originally Posted by Skoal

I bet that little guy who cheated on his wife with cancer

John McCain?



Oh, no, wait, his wife was in a car crash. Not cancer.



McCain has tons and tons of problems. Obama is far from perfect, but he'd be a good place even in a year that Republicans are strong simply because McCain has become such an awful, awful candidate.

[Mystiqsoulchild]

Originally Posted by Feba

John McCain?



Oh, no, wait, his wife was in a car crash. Not cancer.



McCain has tons and tons of problems. Obama is far from perfect, but he'd be a good place even in a year that Republicans are strong simply because McCain has become such an awful, awful candidate.

Rawr, nobody cares what you think Geba
(and I know I said Geba that is the point.)

[Skoal]

Originally Posted by Feba

John McCain?



Oh, no, wait, his wife was in a car crash. Not cancer.



McCain has tons and tons of problems. Obama is far from perfect, but he'd be a good place even in a year that Republicans are strong simply because McCain has become such an awful, awful candidate.

I am good at deflecting too. Just ask my wife. She says "You left your ties and shoes all over the house!". I say "Well you left your schoolwork two days ago all over the kitchen!". Two wrongs don't make a right.

Regardless of the outcome of this election, I just pray that our country is brought back to a good place. I will still honor my president. I won't be some low life who calls him either "Mr. McCain" or "Mr. Obama". I will continue to pay my bills and taxes even though others don't. I will continue to not have my hand out waiting for people to give me anything. I will continue to play FFXI and look forward to more debates with you guys on this website. This has been great fun.

[Feba]

Originally Posted by Skoal

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Of course. But two wrongs is less than three wrongs, is my point. Like I said, despite the problems with Obama, it's incredibly unfair to say he's only doing well because it's an anti-republican time, because McCain would be doing horribly in any case.

[Skoal]

Life is unfair. I can't play right now, gotta get going. Post something else so we can continue our game when I get home from lunch.

[Mystiqsoulchild]

Originally Posted by Feba

because McCain would be doing horribly in any case.

That is still a "opinion" Feba, and you are basically saying "two wrongs do make a right." Because, that is what the Obama campaign has been saying for awhile now. So, just for the record, TWO WRONGS "don't" make a right, so suck it up and deal like the rest of us our going to have to whether or not its McCain winning or Obama winning, we all got to deal with who becomes the next President, of the United States, simple as that. People keep bitching about who is president at the currernt time, and 9/10 they didn't vote for them, if they did vote they voted for them, and if they voted for the other guy they I just mad because they lost.

Whoever wins to be president, you just gotta suck up and deal with it, look I may not like Obama, but if he becomes president, yeah I am going to be mad, but at the end of they day I am going to shrug my shoulders, and deal with it. (and you should too.)