[Mystiqsoulchild]

I honestly could careless who wins anymore, I am just waiting for it to be other and for us the people to find out the truth about who they are once they are in office no matter who wins. I am tired of all this media BS, and I am really tired of hearing about Obama and McCain...just thinking about it gives me a headache.

[Ameroth]

Originally Posted by Mystiqsoulchild

I am tired of all this media BS, and I am really tired of hearing about Obama and McCain

It's almost like there's a presidential campaign going on somewhere or something.

[Malacite]

5 more days. Then it'll all be over and Obama can get to fixing shit.

[MrMageo]

Honestly who gives a shit, they are DONATIONS, if you don't like them spending money don't give them any simple as that. Just try convincing the other 150 million voters out there that they shouldn't DONATE money either. Good Luck.

[Mystiqsoulchild]

Originally Posted by Malacite

5 more days. Then it'll all be over and Obama can get to fixing shit.

You say that like he is going to win, which you don't even know if he is, and even if he does I doubt he will fix shit. At least that's what I think. I just wish it was over with already..Tuesday needs to get here!

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Originally Posted by MrMageo

Honestly who gives a shit, they are DONATIONS, if you don't like them spending money don't give them any simple as that. Just try convincing the other 150 million voters out there that they shouldn't DONATE money either. Good Luck.

You say that like its just Joe Shmoe is sending politicians this kind of money and that it plays no role in how said politicians make decisions.

It doesn't just come from Joe Shmoe, but corporations and special interest groups representing them. These people don't even have to be Americans to push money into a campaign.

And money, like it or not, is a voice and how much money you have determines the volume of that voice. My concern as that there are no limits to the volume they can have, because while money is a voice, one voice should not be louder than the other.

In the media, it used to be said that "The People have the right to know" and we still have the right to know anything we can about presidential candidates, senators and the like. We have the right to know where Democrats, Republicans and any other party stands.

But right now, its just Democrats and Republicans and there's a reason it stays that way.

The media is swayed by money, too. And unlike politicians, we have literally no hope of regulating where thier revenue comes from. They scratch Washington's back, Washington scratches the media's back. Special interest groups feed money to both. They like the game of cat and mouse between the Dems and Reps and want to keep it that way. Makes for good ratings.

Sometimes that special interest group can actually be a politican when it comes to the media. If the media says the "wrong" thing, they can lose advertisers. Someone like Bill Mahar or another pundit might not give a fuck, but the network beancounters will. Some people can't be bullied, but many more easily can.

So this is very relevant.

Also, Malacite, if Obama were elected, he still wouldn't be president for a couple months.

And no matter what any politican says, they won't be able to fix everything.

The economy especially, that takes a lot more than a president to fix.

[The Mauva Syndicate]

I voted for McCain in the 2000 Primaries and honestly that's the election he should have won - that he then brought the exact people who torpedoed his campaign in to run his speaks to me about the senility of his judgement and the total and utter lack of spine on his part.

Frankly the "GET OFF MY LAWN" pose of septugenarian outrage is OLD and TIRED - just like McCain.

I'd like three things from the next POTUS

1) A verifiable, working brain - with associated intellectual curiosity
2) The ability to NOT freak out when people hold a different viewpoint than your own - respectful disagreement is encouraged, but the smirking and "That one" stuff is what bitter old people do and I'm tired of bitter old people
3) The ability to understand complex legal and financial issues

McSenile fails at all three

I think the easiest way to acheive campaign finance reform is TERM LIMITS - term limits would do more to balance Washington than any other single initiative. Consider the recent Ted Stevnes corruption conviction - does anyone believe that he would have been able to be that corrupt had he not been in the senate for 40 years (btw it was Ted Stevens who produced the "Bridge to nowhere" - but that was his claim to fame - pork for alaska). If he was only allowed one or maybe two terms, there would never have been the opportunity for corruption (and he is CLEARLY corrupt).

[Malacite]

Yes I've always wondered why the hell there aren't term limits for Senators.

and speaking of Ted Stevens, he's been found guilty of something like 4 different felonies, but isn't forced to resign and is actually still running. A convicted felon can't vote, but can remain in the Senate? What the fuck is that?

[Feba]

Originally Posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten

It will pass, that's for sure, but I think we're now witnessing the last desparate gasps of the televised and published media credibility as well as the biggest display of how corrupted campaign financing can actually get.

You're confusing corruption with power. That one person has more power than another doesn't mean there is corruption involved. If you want to say that one candidate shouldn't be allowed to be louder than all others, fine. But I don't see third party candidates receiving and using public financing. I think everyone here supports the rights of third parties to participate and hopefully win someday, but as far as I can see the current system doesn't allow that.

McCain also receives plenty of money and support through legally external entities, 537s and such. If you go to his website, there's a form to donate to the campaign.

Anyway, arguing over this is somewhat stupid. There are so many factors (demographics, ground games, the Republican brand turning to crap, John McCain being a horrible candidate with an aimless campaign) involved that even without massive advertising spending Obama would still probably win. Maybe not as widely or securely, or in as many states (AZ and GA under five points for McCain? MT possibly a toss-up?), but it would still likely happen.

[Malacite]

The other thing to keep in mind is that virtually all of Obama's money is in small donations. Don't forget they have somewhere around 2 million donors on that roladex. Even if they all gave just 1 dollar, BAM that's 2 mil.


And what's wrong with that? I'd rather see him win with tonnes of public support than a government hand out. Mc Cain's just jealous that he doesn't have that kind of following behind him.

[Satimasu]

Obama is all about government handouts. It would only be fair that he would do that since it's what he represents.

[MrMageo]

You say that like its just Joe Shmoe is sending politicians this kind of money and that it plays no role in how said politicians make decisions.

It doesn't just come from Joe Shmoe, but corporations and special interest groups representing them. These people don't even have to be Americans to push money into a campaign.

And money, like it or not, is a voice and how much money you have determines the volume of that voice. My concern as that there are no limits to the volume they can have, because while money is a voice, one voice should not be louder than the other.

In the media, it used to be said that "The People have the right to know" and we still have the right to know anything we can about presidential candidates, senators and the like. We have the right to know where Democrats, Republicans and any other party stands.

But right now, its just Democrats and Republicans and there's a reason it stays that way.

The media is swayed by money, too. And unlike politicians, we have literally no hope of regulating where thier revenue comes from. They scratch Washington's back, Washington scratches the media's back. Special interest groups feed money to both. They like the game of cat and mouse between the Dems and Reps and want to keep it that way. Makes for good ratings.

Sometimes that special interest group can actually be a politican when it comes to the media. If the media says the "wrong" thing, they can lose advertisers. Someone like Bill Mahar or another pundit might not give a fuck, but the network beancounters will. Some people can't be bullied, but many more easily can.

So this is very relevant.

Also, Malacite, if Obama were elected, he still wouldn't be president for a couple months.

And no matter what any politican says, they won't be able to fix everything.

The economy especially, that takes a lot more than a president to fix.

Are you new to democracy or something? It has been this way long before the USA ever became the "land of the free".

Would it make you happier if corporations didn't charge candidates at all for advertisments and such?

If that happened wouldn't that make it an even playing field hmm? Until Candidates can sell them selves for free there will always be money needed.

I would also like to point out that sure the numbers are large money wise in this election, but the cost to sell ones self is also more. It is called inflation and yes it even affects presidential candidates.

Tell me that it costs less for a presidential nominee to travel across the country then it id in '04. Tell me it is cheaper to buy TV time or radio time than it was in '04. It is just a representation of the shitty state of the economy, it costs more to buy less, and that is why both candidates have spent so much money.

I am sure when Obama made this pledge he didn't predict gas prices sky rocketting over the summer, or the price of everything to grow. If you want to blame anybody for the cost of the race, blame W. and the congress and senate who have sat by and let the federal reserve manipulate the economy into a recession, the same way the did last time, and the time before that, you know the one in the 20's that bankrupted the entire world and brought about the great depression.

Barrack and McCain are both victims of the inflation and devaluing of the dollar, not much you can do about that. I would imagine that if dollar amounts were calculated to the value of the dollar in '04 there would not be much of a change from spending then, and spending now.

It's like all time top grossing movie lists bumping up Gone with the wind to today's dollar value, it out gross' all the top dogs every time.

[Firewind]

And I thought that starting a cult would be the way to pay for my college fees. It turns out all I need to do is move to the US, sell my soul and become a Democrat

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Originally Posted by Firewind

And I thought that starting a cult would be the way to pay for my college fees. It turns out all I need to do is move to the US, sell my soul and become a Democrat

Don't forget to talk about change... a lot.

Then when elected, make sure you don't really change anything, because if you do you can't get re-elected.

[Mystiqsoulchild]

Originally Posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten

Don't forget to talk about change... a lot.

Then when elected, make sure you don't really change anything, because if you do you can't get re-elected.

LOL thank you for stating that..all Obama keeps saying is change we need this we need that..what the hell do we need then Mr Obama? (or should I so yomomma) Hey keeps saying we need change. Hell we don't need change, we just need someone that can be a better president and take care of issues. if he changes the things I think that he wants to change will screw over americans a ALOT!