[Telera]

Originally Posted by Karinya

In other words, nobody is ready for their first relationship, no matter what age they have it at. But they have to do it sometime anyway.

But you can be mature enough to see past your hormones and groinal urges to ask if this person is someone who will support you emotionally beyond your little tryst.

And I can tell you point blank the vast majority of young teen women and men are not capable of getting to that point, though they may think they can, simply because of how turbulent puberty is for everyone. Or nigh everyone.

How many friends did I have sleep with a guy then come bawling to me 'I thought he'd love me if I did?' Yeah, quite a few. And you know, I place a hefty amount of blame on the girl, because she didn't stop to think past anything more than her hormones and a hormone-glazed vision of what the boy would do if she gave it up.

No, you are not mature enough until you can think past basic biology. Animals can have sex too, that's nothing special, but if you're after something longer than that (and if not, that's fine) then you need to wait until your head can think clearly about what you're going into.

Again, if you're just after a one night stand, and you consent, while the age difference might be creepy, that's your perogative in my book. Live and fuck up and learn. That's what life is about.

[Murphie]

Originally Posted by Karinya

IMO, emotional maturity doesn't come with years but with experience. And you can only get that experience by, well, having experiences.

In other words, nobody is ready for their first relationship, no matter what age they have it at. But they have to do it sometime anyway.

Well, yes. I mean, we just had a thread about a 21 year old that could easily be switched with a 14 year old and no one would know the difference. But your average 16 year old is not ready for an adult relationship, which is what your average 22 year old is probably looking for.

Age of Consent laws are in place to protect people from making choices that they aren't (on average) qualified to make for themselves yet. Sure, there are always going to be exceptions, but the exceptions don't make the rule.

[Feba]

Murphie: They're in place because the majority of society says anything under that age is appalling to them. The same applies to many, many, many laws. Most laws that are meant to "protect" people from themselves are in place to society can punish things they don't like, and nothing more.

[Murphie]

Not really, no. I mean, some laws, yes, but age of consent laws are generally in place for the protection of minors, not out of some sort of misplaced Victorian sensibility.

[Malacite]

Michael Jackson.

[Feba]

Murphie: That excuse would only apply if there was actually something to protect the person from.

[Murphie]

Um, there is. They are protecting children from having sex with an adult before the average person is emotionally ready to handle it.

[Feba]

as has already been said, there is no point when anyone is 'ready'. It's not like a switch goes off in someone's head and it goes from "Bad idea.." to "alright.", it just doesn't happen. And if it did, people wouldn't need a law to tell them when it's a bad idea or not.

[Murphie]

I already addressed that. If our society encouraged children to grow up faster, we wouldn't need laws to protect them from having sex after hitting puberty, because they would be prepared. But your average teen (emphasis on average - as there are always going to be exceptions) in today's society is not ready, at least not intellectually and emotionally, and so these laws are in place to protect them.

If this were 1900, it would be a different situation. But it's not. And yes, there are always going to be those people who are perhaps ready earlier than others. But we don't write laws with those people in mind.

tl;dr - If we prepared people to be prepared emotionally/intellectually for sex at a younger age, it wouldn't be a problem. But we don't, so it is.

[IfritnoItazura]

As far as I can tell, humanity has been (mostly) trying to delay sexual encounter of girls/women until some "appropriate time" for thousands of years, if not tens of thousands of years. While the threshold is has been pushed further and further back on average, the tendency has always been there.

There's no point in arguing it's unnatural--after thousands of years, does it really matter if it's instinct or culture to delay sex? And, even if deferring to that "appropriate time" is somehow bad in some ways, you can be very sure that if I ever have a daughter, I'll be watching my daughter's first few boyfriends like a hawk with rabbits in sight: "You're SO not gonna attempt to breed... Trust me."

Doesn't matter if she's 16 or 22, I'll have my "Your death before my daughter's dishonor" glare ready. >_>

[Feba]

I'm not making a case here that it's dependent on mental age and not physical age (which I will agree with you on somewhat, most 20 year olds nowadays are less mature than most 13 year olds even a century or two ago)

I'm saying that either you're not going to consent, or you're as ready as you're ever going to be.

[Murphie]

Of course it matters if it's instinct or culture. Otherwise this entire discussion wouldn't be necessary.

Feba - It looks like we're just getting our wires crossed by talking about it in two different ways. I'm more focused on the legality of the issue than anything else. I recognize that people are either ready (or at least they think they are), or they aren't.

[Jarre]

Murphy don't forget peoples idea of what age can still be classed as a child is different everywhere. In most cultures I doubt you would call a 16 yearold a child anymore.

The topic is about as 16 year old so children does not come into this.

IfritnoItazura, I'll add some facts for you.

In 1275 the first law in the UK was set regarding an age of consent, this was 12. this stayed in force until the 16th century when this was increased to 13. The Main reason was that this was the average age of females who'd be able to give birth as they were msotly "mature enough for their body to produce a healthy baby"

It wasn't until around 1885 where this was lifted to the common age we know now in the Uk as 16. As for same sex, it was illegal until the 1960's in the Uk where an age limit of 21 was emposed, by 1985 this was reduced to 18 and in 2004 due to european pressure this was reduced further to 16.

Information above from my mates law dissertation I proof read for him a few years back on the political and social challenges of changing a law of this nature.

[Murphie]

I'm not forgetting that at all. But here in the US, 18 is the legal age of consent. Perhaps some might consider that arbitrary, but there it is.

[Jarre]

I was under the impression that some US states the age is 16 and others 21?
(oh yeah added a bit of history int eh Uk to my post above)