[Eji Kazuma]

I know it's probably silly to ask something like this after getting Ninja to 75... but I wanted to see if anyone really had a claer understanding of Enmity (gain/loss) or if it's all pretty much just speculation and theory.

Anyway, I recently purchased a Harmonia Torque which has like +3 Enmity on it, I wanted to try and get a edge on a certain PLD buddy of mine and see if there was anyway to give him a bit of a run at holding hate... (since he always tells me I'm "too easy" to take hate from... T_T)

LOL, currently... I have the Warwolf Belt (+3 I think) and the Arhat Hakama +1 (+4 Enmity). Sooo... I tend to take, and hold hate better then any of the other Ninja's in the Endgame LS who use like Scouters Rope and Koga Hakama. I figured the Harmonia Torque with the additional (+3) enmity and some merits I might do even better... but I would be much better off in the long run wearing a evasion torque, or my chiv chain depending on situation...

So my question really is, if I were to macro in the Harmonia torque for provoke, would tha added enmity kick in for the provoke only, and if so... would it drop faster when the Harmonia torque is removed?

[WishMaster3K]

There was a good article about the Hate equilibrium. I'll try to find it, since it gave me a good understanding of things.

http://kanican.livejournal.com/12192.html

NVM, found it. Enjoy!

[Eji Kazuma]

Thanks for the heads up... I can't check it behind the firewalls here at work though... T_T I'll have to check it later at home.

[DakAttack]

That explination was hella long.

A lot of people have differing opinions about enmity, and I happen to be one of them. From my observations as a Paladin sitting at camp attempting to recover a few MP when the puller comes in with a monster and it quickly singles me out leads me to believe enmity has a constant effect as long as you keep it equipped.

Others believe that enmity only effects your actions, and that you can swap it in and out.

[Armando]

A lot of people have differing opinions about enmity, and I happen to be one of them. From my observations as a Paladin sitting at camp attempting to recover a few MP when the puller comes in with a monster and it quickly singles me out leads me to believe enmity has a constant effect as long as you keep it equipped.

That can happen for anyone kneeling, though. If a puller misses his shot then it's pretty easy for anything that gets hate to pull hate.

[Necropolis]

Resting as the mob is pulled can snag you hate. Dynamis isn't exactly normal enmity, but have you ever seen that AFK blm resting on the pull get pummeled to death as the puller trains through?

I believe that equipping enmity for Provoke, or any job ability that garners you hate, will increase the amount of hate you gain. Some THF af even has enmity on it, which leads me to believe it's there so that THFs can equip in for thier Trick Attack. Every Paladin in my current shell will wear as much enmity for thier job ability macros as well, so that leads me to believe that that is the common consensus.

Of course continually wearing it will give you even more hate as you damage the mob, but then you're probably sacrifcing a bit of damage potential for that. I can't say what in that case would lead to more hate for you, but I would lead to more damage in that case for normal hits.

Is this endgame you're competing in tanking or meripo? If you're trying to rip hate off a pld as nin I'd recommend /drk. I watched a NIN/DRK rip the hate of a pld today at Tiamat and Cerberus. Between stun, sleep, drain, aspir, ninjitsu, and higher damage while taking little or no damage you have a lot of potential hate. We also have a NIN/DRK puller in my dyna shell that back up tanks if the PLDs happen to be incapacitated.

[Eji Kazuma]

I've main tanked in Dynamis, Endgame etc... great example of my competition was on O-Hat runs the other night. My PLD buddy has full enmity merits and tons of +enmity gear that he macros in. He's like "C'mon let me step in here and show these Ninjas how this is done =P" it's just friendly competition and I know that reasonably I should be struggling to take hate off of him with his setup and that he's a PLD.

But I like to compete... =P I just wanted to get some opinions cause I heard that the higher the enmity you have is the more chance of sustaining hate you have. I've heard that if you gear swap enmity you will lose hate faster because there is no additional hate generation there.

As far as Meriting goes... I'd love to be able to hold decent hate in a merit PT... but without the right setup and plenty of BRD lovin' I don't see that happening atleast not the same way it does when tanking endgame mobs.

PS: DRK is in the works... I think I'll be taking it to 37 after I get RDM to and SAM to 20.... just wanna start getting some of my other jobs all the way through the Dunes before falling back to DRK... since my Black Magic skill sucks currently and my enfeebling is still low also.

[Sevv]

ill get murphie to take pics of gear set, if your nin/drk with my enmity set up really works well for tanking.

[Eji Kazuma]

That would be really awesome! ^_^ I gotta get DRK up there still like I've said before. I did try out adding in the Harmonia's Torque last night for our sky run... and it definatly paid off against the other Ninjas.... I could clearly take hate off of them with a single provoke.

My PLD buddy has +43 Enmity from what he told me... ¬_¬... When I looked at his armor, like every peice of it had enmity on it... (EVEN THE SWORD! >=O) Anyway... I think I'm gonna give up this PLD Vs. NIN Enmity battle T_T... I'll just have to stick to having hate set on me.

[pyromaniac]

Just NIN/DRK ive done it ALOT!!!!!!! u dont even have to have Enmity gear and u can have incredable hate if u know what ur doin/Have MP with me as a taru NIN/DRK :x i have around 300MP :X So Osode > Arhats, Loq. Earring/Magnetic Earring > Eris Jelly/Ether > Mermaid earrings :D its awesome^^

[ItachiKujata]

never give up! +43 enmity is pretty high, but NIN/DRK you can probably get and keep hate if you melee with souleater lol... but that would require lots of support healing.

I find that NIN/DRK does have great hate potential even without meleeing with souleater. With /WAR the only way you'll be able to get hate at all is if you macro in as much enmity as you can with voke and warcry... which is probably gonna cost a pretty penny... on vokes I macro in +32 enmity currently and potentially i could push that up to +42 if I were to get a hades sainti and Usukane Sune-Ate but probably not lol... although i'm tempted to buy hades sainti...

/DRK is all about balancing enmity and haste, the more haste you have the faster you can cast stun and the more hate you can generate. Even with all that enmity gear though, you will still have problems keeping hate from the best DD...

[Karinya]

The enmity swords have crap damage, making them kind of a mixed bag for exp/merit tanking. At some point you have to think about whether or not more +enmity would be inferior to more actions directly taken to gain enmity (more damage dealt, more hp cured if you're PLD) or less enmity loss (taking less damage or in NIN's case, losing fewer shadows - every shadow you lose is an enmity loss and if the monster gets through and nails you it's a BIG loss).

Accordingly, hades sainti will probably hurt you more than they help (except in kited fights where you aren't swinging anyway). You'll have more +enmity stat but you'll do a lot less damage; furthermore you'll be unable to parry (since they're a H2H weapon), leading to more lost shadows and damage. Macroing in weapons will kill your TP so you can't WS for hate.

I haven't seen a lot of NIN/DRK, but if it isn't a purely kited fight I wouldn't neglect the contribution your damage makes to your hate (benefiting from both +enmity and haste). Unlike PLD, NIN was originally designed as a DD and is still pretty darn good at it.

[ItachiKujata]

For sky gods at least, I don't see damage being a factor in hate for me as NIN. I barely do much damage as it is and if I go all out DD, I lose out on damage mitigation and +enmity. The damage mitigation is useful for when shadows go down which happens all too often with ga spells, double/triple attacks, etc... of course a DD setup using HP gear and souleater would get hate but also require lots of healing and isn't really efficient MP wise.

If we're talking easier stuff like sky triggers, merit mobs, limbus mobs, assault, salvage, etc, then a DD setup would be more effective.