@ lvl 40 Nin/Blm and some misc questions...

[Malevolent]

Is it useful in XP parties..? I just got to lvl 40 and did my first PCC run for myself got 1 for me but...should i throw this around in a XP situation...? Also some gear questions....

heres what i got.

Emp hairpin, Anju and Zushio, Ryl Squire chainmail, Ochiudos Kote, Jujitsu stiabaki and Ryl Squire breeches, bounding boots, PCC or Spike Necklace, Drone earx2 or Beetle Earx2, courage ringsx2, warrior belt, nomads mantle.

I have a astral and electrum for /blm and also my RSE for added MP and thats what got mt thru UO bcnm...

anyway...Since i'm all Acced out...i've been eating Arrabbiato+1. I had a party last nite and i decided to grab some yellow curry. partied for around 6 hours...blah but gained some awesome XP...So i think i'm gonna stick with Yellow Curry as a main food...gonna take up some inventory slots...blah...

But for a balance...do i have a good Acc to Str balance with the food i eat??

[Jei]

It might work, I don't know. The optimal level to use nin/blm is after 60/30 normally because you gain access to both elemental staves and blm magic attack trait II (30 blm.) I don't think food really matters here because all you'll do with this set up and nuke you Ni spell over and over. And that will gain you so much hate you don't need to even swing your weapon.

Note tho that I haven't seen anyone try this in the new ToAU area yet. With the TP burning trend these days I don't know how well nuking nin will do compare to straight melee with attack/strengh and bard.

[tdh]

Well, at Lv.40 there are cheaper, stackable Meat Dishes that you could use. As DRK61, Yellow Curry would be great for me, since my "base" attack is just over 380, but if you like it, and wanna spend all the gil, have at it! haha

I always thought the point of NIN to sub BLM would be for more INT, and Magic Attack Bonus, not the MP and the spells. I would try and get some INT gear for your nukes and spam them for damage. Having elemental staves for nuking at Lv.51 would help increase your damage as well.

You can also go DD as /WAR. Add on extra Atk gear, Berserk and swing away. But you're looking to nuke BLM and INT gear would help up your damage.

[Icemage]

I've seen NIN/BLM used a few times at various levels, with varying success.

- You do NOT want to boost MP at all for this build. You aren't casting Elemental magic for magic damage - you're using your Ni level Ninjutsu elemental wheel to draw hate. The only concession here is perhaps casting Bind once per fight if you have some way to recover small amounts of MP, since Bind has a pretty large enmity rating. But for this purpose, you don't need any +MP, since you'll get more than enough from just /BLM subjob even if all you have is Ballad I to recover MP with.

- You need Magic Attack Bonus gear. Moldavite Earring at 47 is a must. HQ elemental staves are pretty much a must. Without the extra damage, it's hard to catch up to the hate spiking of Provoke.

- Ninjutsu Torque at 65 is extremely helpful, as it will lower your resist rates (thus increasing your nuke damage, and improving your enmity situation).

- Preferred food for this is in a standard party, without a shadow of a doubt, Dorado Sushi. +3 enmity with Ninjutsu that has a 2 second cast time outweighs any extra damage you might deal via Yellow Curry or any other food. Your job is to hold the monster's attention, not so much to deal maximum damage.

- For TP-burn parties at 60+ where Provoke is NOT an issue, then NIN/BLM is a very good way to tack on extra damage if you're willing to spend the gil for the tools.


Icemage

[Achaicus]

Part of what made this work when I was in this type of pty was that the nin/blm - and the rdm/ had the gear and the gill to get the nin/blm enuf +int to be effective. Other than that, a 2nd nin helped keep him from getting cast interrupts while the Rdm kept him refreshed. The rest of the pty was me (a brd) and (any 3) other DDish meelee-ers. Skill-chaining was actually unnecessay thing, so the melees simply soloed thier ws.

We swept all of that area of Boyahda tree. The other three exp ptys there ended up leaving after just watching us.

Lots of fun!

- Greg W., "Achaicus" - Bard, Gilgamesh
Califonia

[IfritnoItazura]

Why revive this three and half month old thread? >_>;

Part of what made this work when I was in this type of pty was that the nin/blm - and the rdm/ had the gear and the gill to get the nin/blm enuf +int to be effective. Other than that, a 2nd nin helped keep him from getting cast interrupts while the Rdm kept him refreshed. The rest of the pty was me (a brd) and (any 3) other DDish meelee-ers. Skill-chaining was actually unnecessay thing, so the melees simply soloed thier ws.

I can't quite parse everything you've wrote ( "rdm/ had the gear and the gill to get the nin/blm enuf +int"?? What? Huh?), but I'd think a NIN/BLM would want these:

1. Elemental staves.
2. Magic Attack Bonus gears.
3. Haste.
4. INT+ gears.

In that order. Refresh would have been a silly waste of the RDM's MP.

Edit:
BTW, the OP was about Lv.40 NIN/BLM, while Boyada Tree is Lv.50+ camp...

[Omecle]

I'd probably wait at least til you get elemental staves and moldavite earring before trying the combo out. But eh, what do I know. =P

[IfritnoItazura]

I'd probably wait at least til you get elemental staves and moldavite earring before trying the combo out.

Actually, NIN/RDM has consistently been the best DD in the multiple CoP 3.5 (Mammets fight) runs our LS conducted. Then again, we like fighting those things one at a time, instead of gather them up and "Astral Flow x4" them all at once. (That, and we don't have that many SMN's...)

I wouldn't expect NIN40/BLM20 or NIN40/RDM20 to do poorly in exp parties, as DD's anyway.

[Achaicus]

Oh sorry about that, IfritoItazura. I meant that the RDM player had a large amount of cash (as well as items from her main job as a BLM) to loan to the player who played the NIN/BLM. This helped keep the NIN/BLM from being resisted. This was important because the NIN/BLM was doing the "magic wheel." This helped to make those lower level spells add up more damage over time (which was tremendous - sorry that I don't remember the actual numbers).

By the way, just so that I give credit where it should be due, it was the player of the RDM - Deadangel - who suggested the idea in the 1st place. The her skill and that of Thorsmen (the NIN) pulled it off.

I don't know if level forty could be a start of how to do this type of party - perhaps 51 as was suggested? Maybe 41 to include RDM? I don't know, but - if I ever level NIN, I'll look into it further

Have Fun Everyone!

- Greg W.

[Eji Kazuma]

Well... My BLM is level 1... I haven't messed with the class... so I have no real idea what the elemental staves do, however... I did see some swords that would be a GEM for a Nin trying to pull this off.

They are called Crimson Swords I believe, and the main benefit I got from them was a nice little +5 to int... all for the low low price of 3K on Diabolos Server. Also, they have a 28 for dmg at level 48(I Think). These seemed to be a pretty viable option if you wanted to raise your damage done by Jutusu's or by black magic. +10 Int is nothing to sneeze at I'd say.

[IfritnoItazura]

Well... My BLM is level 1... I haven't messed with the class... so I have no real idea what the elemental staves do, however... I did see some swords that would be a GEM for a Nin trying to pull this off.

They are called Crimson Swords I believe, and the main benefit I got from them was a nice little +5 to int... all for the low low price of 3K on Diabolos Server. Also, they have a 28 for dmg at level 48(I Think). These seemed to be a pretty viable option if you wanted to raise your damage done by Jutusu's or by black magic. +10 Int is nothing to sneeze at I'd say.

NIN nuking, like BLM nuking, calls for Magic Attack Bonus (MAB) or magic damage multiplier love. Unlike BLM, Ninjutsu skill isn't as much of a factor as Elemental Magic skill.

NIN nuking is always 6 spells in a row; the first spell lowers resistance for the second spell, and the second spell lowers the resistance for the third, and so on. This is frequently referred to as the Ninjutsu "wheel".

(Technically, a coterie of BLM's can do the same thing with Ancient Magic, but I've never seen that before. I don't have end game experiences, though, so not sure if it's ever done or not.)

The lack of worry on resist has the side effect of making MAB or magic damage multiplier even more important in comparison.

Where INT comes into play is to increase the maximum damage. INT has discernable effects, but not exactly earth shaking. MAB or magic damage multiplier is where a player gets more bang per slot. That is what the elemental staves do for co-aligned nukes; NQ versions have the hidden effect of 10% increase to damage (15% for HQ). While Crimson Blade x2 is nice at Lv.49 for NIN/RDM or NIN/BLM, INT+10 can't compare with 10% increase in damage from the staves once NIN/BLM hits Lv.51.

In some sense, elemental staves are stronger than MAB; MAB is compared to MDB (Magic Defense Bonus), and the ratio is used. Nothing singles out staves' multiplier effect (apparently), though the entire set is subjected to Taget Magic Damage Adjustment (a percentage-ish based damage adjustment).

FFXIclopedia has the details on Magic Damage Calculations, if anyone is interested.

[Eji Kazuma]

Wow... I think My head just exploded... =P J/K Thanks for the info... I think I may just leave my BLM at level 1 a bit longer.... not really ready to jump into that kind of stuff... LOL

[Achaicus]

Ah. I had always thought that the reason for the +Int (for the NIN/BLM in the party I was in) was mainly for getting a 'hit' but not so much for doing damage. We did anticipate that we would might come up short on doing damage, but that was the main idea behind doing the magic wheel.

It was a big laugh for us that a million or so gil was being spent on items at the AH for an experiment - again, sorry I do not remember the details. I think the NIN/BLM ended up with somewhere arount +32 Int.

It was a little challenging to auto-translate what we were setting out to do; although, ironic that the english speakers we chanced to ask to join us weren't getting the idea, lol. We ~almost~ didn't get started (for various reasons). But, once we worked out what we needed to do - after a few deaths, lol - it was the most powerful exp party that I ever saw.

So, at the time, the +Int is what worked - at least part of it, from what I remember. I'll ask my friends when I get back home (in 3 - or more - weeks! ugh). If anyone might like to know by then - if someone doesn't do their own experiment in the mean time - I'll tell about it.

[Malacite]

Has anyone actually tested this yet in Merit Parties? I wonder how a full PT of NIN would do, just spamming the wheel and letting hate fly... it would be a pain in the ass to coordinate the spells though @. @ lol

Well, actually you could just have everyone rotate 1 spell per round.


Example: The 1st NIN would start the wheel. Rather than casting the next spell himself, NIN 2 would cast it, and so on and so forth until the wheel has gone a full cycle (6 casts per NIN) or more likely, the mob is beyond dead >. >b

[IfritnoItazura]

Sorry about necro-posting, but Malacite's question is a good one, especially if it's about the San level Ninjutsu.

I'm gussing the NIN/BLM using Ni level wheel probably would start losing its dominance around Lv.60-ish. (Not really sure, though.) It'd would be very interesting to know if the San level Ninjutsu (with just 1 merit each) can do for Lv.75 NIN's what Ni level ones can for NIN40-60.


(I have a vague impression that NIN's mostly merit just one or two of the San level elemental Ninjutsu, and use them mostly for enfeebling property instead of the damage... Hopefully someone out there is crazy enough to test this by dumping a single merit point into each Ninjutsu...)