Nin 70+ as damage dealer : Viable?

[Crimespree]

Im level 40 blink tanking nin with all my required equip on; im pretty sure all im missing is one snipers ring.

Was looking at AH and it got me thinking,
can level 70+ nin be dmg dealer?

All youd need is 70% HP or less and your 20% haste earring kicks in. if youre not tanking there shouldnt be any problems, utsusemi is there as backup. is this viable at all?

Equip:

2x Fudo
Optical Hat
Byrnie/Assault/Haubergeon
Bomb Core
Ochiudos
Sniper Ring
Jse Ring
Jse Earring
Merman/coral earring
Fuma
Dusk Trousers
Lifebelt/swordbelt/masters belt/haste belt
4/4 collar or PC charm
Amemit

total of +80ish attack max and a healthy dose of accuracy

when below 70% youd have 30% haste... just form equip.

katanas add up to 455 or so delay, so with dual wield 4 and all that haste, plus haste spell on you you could probably bring that down to around 280ish delay, like a 1h axe.

I was just thinking, the damage over time would be interesting :O But Its all just speculation... what do you guys think?

[evilution]

Any melee class with godly equipment and the right buffs can be VERY strong.

I've been in a PT with a tarutaru ninja whos damage was so good he didnt even need Fui from the THF to keep agro even when i was MB for over 1100 damage.


Then again I've been in PT's with ninjas who did such poor damage that even with fui I would draw agro tossing out a level 1 nuke when the mob was at 80% health.

[Stanislav]

My ninja has had +55 attack since 67
If i had byrine+1 and amemt+1 it could near 65 and other gear added i could have+70+80 or more

Since levle 40 I had all attack gear but I still tank

It costs me a lot more on Blink becuase I barely ever evade and have to use more. but the speed of killing and my dmg ouput is great

Ninja doenst need Evasion gear to tank but it does make it easier
I took the other way and I tank and fight I have the following.

- Assault Jerkin
- 1 Fudo and 1 Stun Katana (atm)
- Emperor Hairpin
- Ochiudos Kote
- Fuma Kyten
- Resatu Pants
- 2 STR+4 rings
- 2 Dodge Earring (maybe should change to Coral Earring ands that +10 more attack)
- Amemt Mantle
- RK collar

My goal is to chang emy gear to the following

- Scorpion Jarness
- 2 Fudo
- Emperor Hairpin
- Ochiudos kote
- Fuma Kyten
- Resatsu Pants
- 2 STR+4 Rings
- Amemt Mantle +1
- Peacock charm

Once again I learned ninja doesnt need evasion gear but if you choose attack then your pretty much working 2x harder to tank.

[Navia]

Stanislav , what belt are you using? Royal knights looks nice because i'm not having problems with accuracy so far, but I see half of highlevel ninja wearing rk belt, others with lifebelt.

I was this >< close to getting a SMN torque last night for the 5 evasion but the RK collar looks like a balanced choice for neckwear giving me def/evade/str until I can get a good +acc neck at higher level.

Some people carry around multiple armor pieces for a given slot, but with the amount of inventory spaces used for ninja tools for 4+ hr pt i'd like to not drag along excess stuff and have a couple slots to hold loot still :sweat:
How many hits are you taking on an average fight waiting on blink timers to recycle due to lower evasion?

I personally cant imagine dropping below the +30ish evade mark because when I get hit while waiting for Ni or Ichi to pop against totetote++ even when debuffed, it hurts bad
Having defender helps now but I like being able to evade alot and keep berserk on as much as possible (obviously clicked off when im going to get smacked)

[Mitsu]

When lvling on totetote++ mobs at 61-end of game....you have like a 10%chance of evading with +40 evade. I tried it and unless your chaining tote1 the amount of misses made by an enemy are few and FAR between. Right now we are lvling in onzozo...FOOKIN Torama's are HELL to tank simply bc of Paralyze and silence specials they have. After one night of lvling in there i decided to change my gear a bit.
Haubergeon
2 sniper Rings
Life Belt
2 dodge earrings
Amemet
Ochiudo Kote
Arhats Leg and feet
Spectacles
Bomb Core

At 70 im gonna try throwing again when I can wear my JSE and equip 2 merman rings, but so far my haubergeon set up can help kill toramas b4 i go through the 3 cycles. Also if you have good comunication and a BLM,DRK, and.or war..you can make the downtime less hazardous by timing stuns and flash. As far as a HNM situation ill HAVE to make a evasion set of equip for HNM that I MUST tank, lol, but even thats is not necasarry unless I want to try and take one on with 3 people.

[Stanislav]

I am using a Life Belt
Its really the best belt this game has to offer besides Speed Belt but thats not worth the 3mil it is on my server.

Also the way i use Blink is cast on Last shadow if I am casting Ichi and for Ni there is almost no way to get hit unless you start to late.

My friend has +70 evasion at 75 and he still gets hit a lot, It only helps a little.

I have a set of evasion gear that gets me to +55 but I rarely use it.

[Reaper]

You guys have a point , I had up to plus 88 evade up for a certain period of time in the game. I was still getting hit by totes as if I only had about only plus 50 or 60 to evade. Of course at level 74 everything is tote to you but I figured at least you could dodge alot of it with about plus 88 evade.

I don't know all the names of the gear in english since I am playing on Japanese Version and I just recognize the Kanji, but here goes

Emperors Hairpin
Raesatsu Gloves
Raesatsu Boots
Survival Belt
Spirit Torque
Dodge earring x 2
AF pants
Bachelors Vest
Federation Ceremonial Shortsword ?? ( +3 to evade one)
Bat Cape
Wind Ring
Fenrir Stone



Alas I am almost done my ninja job and theres not much chance to switch gear around to try for the attack route. I did notice that the more damage did help me hold hate but alot of it I found after level 72 was just spamming Ku whenever possible and the guy will turn him around. I am sure though that with enough attack you wouldnt need to do that, since around 73 everything starts to weaken off.

I also carried around several pieces of gear on me for the same slot, like Assualt Jerkin and Republican Mantle , Shiva dagger, for more attack and stuff. But I think with warcry and beserk with food I could only get up to about 600 attk or so. I bet with the right gear one could bring their ninja up to 700 easily. But like Stan said, the more you go into attk the harder you have to work at dodging

I just wish S.E. would tell us where about the cap or the marginal return point was. I would sure like to swap out some pieces of dodging gear for attk just to see those low numbers go away. Too bad, my new job is ranger now

[Madden]

Here are the items I want for my Ninja:

Weapon 1: Fudo
Weapon 2: Shiranui
Ranged: Ungur Boomerang
Head: Optical Hat
Neck: Peacock Charm
Earring 1: Fenrir Earring
Earring 2: Dodge Earing
Body: Scorpion Harness +1
Hands: Seiryu's Kote
Ring 1: Boomqueen Ring
Ring 2: Bloodbead Ring
Back: Amemit Mantle +1
Belt: Sonic Belt
Legs: Byakko's Haidate
Feet: Rasetsu Suna-Ate

Will take time to get but I will get it ^^

[Mitsu]

>< Seryu and Byakko...the pain will be great. I too want alot of that, but you need excellent equip to beat those HNM. All i can say good luck and let us know when you taste death at Byakko's claws. I plan on dieing alot in our first fight with it lol.

[Kirk]

Originally posted by Reaper
You guys have a point , I had up to plus 88 evade up for a certain period of time in the game. I was still getting hit by totes as if I only had about only plus 50 or 60 to evade. Of course at level 74 everything is tote to you but I figured at least you could dodge alot of it with about plus 88 evade.


I just wish S.E. would tell us where about the cap or the marginal return point was.

I think one thing to recongnize is that in the combat calculation there is always a chance to land a hit. Even weak mobs can hit you at times. But anyway here is a method i use to see how effective my evasion is. Goto mystery tour and check the skill cap section. Goto the chart under the A- list and find your current level. Add your +eva to that level total to get what your active evasion is. The go up the chart and see what level your effecive evasion correspondes to.

Keep this level in mind and then visit the xp chart section. Find the level of the mobs you are attacking by how much xp you get for a single kill in pt. This will tell you how much levels above you they are. Basically you can then match the level the mob is above you with the level yout +eva brings you at. You can then buy up evasion to effectively bring the mob to a level that is EM, DC, EP whatever by how much eva you have.

Also one last point. In blink taking even 1 or 2 misses is all you need to have the evasion be effective. You just need it to bide your time between timers resetting

[Mitsu]

Eh..the EVADE skill leads to alot of misconceptions. First you must look at what the Evade skill is exactly. When an enemy misses and when you EVADE and enemy attack is 2 totally different things. In chat log if an enemy misses you it is mainly due to your characters natural evade+ any AGI/Evade equip you have. When you evade an attack that is purely the Evade skill. That is the reason why parry lvls up so much more slowley than a ninja's evade skill. With ninja evade always have priority over parry skill meaning that your character will attempt to evade b4 parry. As for IT mobs higher up, they are extremly accurate. Even with 55-70 evade your enemy will hit 90% of the time, and on the 10% they MAY miss they will miss at the wrong times, messing up your recast. Everyone must be paying attention in the pt, if your pt works well together then a nin tank has no worries when he goes from ici>NI to start the cycle over. I too have changed my set up to more atk/acc base equip, although i still have my throw equip, its just not feasable to throw ATM when the most efficent sub when throwing is RNG. NO, the cost is not unbearable, in fact, compared to other high lvl recipe....Manji, Fuma shuriken are cake

[Kirk]

Originally posted by Mitsu
Eh..the EVADE skill leads to alot of misconceptions. First you must look at what the Evade skill is exactly. When an enemy misses and when you EVADE and enemy attack is 2 totally different things. In chat log if an enemy misses you it is mainly due to your characters natural evade+ any AGI/Evade equip you have. When you evade an attack that is purely the Evade skill. That is the reason why parry lvls up so much more slowley than a ninja's evade skill.

What the heck are you talking about mitsu? There is only one evasion skill. Im not talking about when you 'Evade' an AOE attack.

[Madden]

Originally posted by Mitsu
Eh..the EVADE skill leads to alot of misconceptions. First you must look at what the Evade skill is exactly. When an enemy misses and when you EVADE and enemy attack is 2 totally different things. In chat log if an enemy misses you it is mainly due to your characters natural evade+ any AGI/Evade equip you have. When you evade an attack that is purely the Evade skill. That is the reason why parry lvls up so much more slowley than a ninja's evade skill. With ninja evade always have priority over parry skill meaning that your character will attempt to evade b4 parry. As for IT mobs higher up, they are extremly accurate. Even with 55-70 evade your enemy will hit 90% of the time, and on the 10% they MAY miss they will miss at the wrong times, messing up your recast. Everyone must be paying attention in the pt, if your pt works well together then a nin tank has no worries when he goes from ici>NI to start the cycle over. I too have changed my set up to more atk/acc base equip, although i still have my throw equip, its just not feasable to throw ATM when the most efficent sub when throwing is RNG. NO, the cost is not unbearable, in fact, compared to other high lvl recipe....Manji, Fuma shuriken are cake

No idea what you talking about...

[Mitsu]

LOL sorry about that, i rambled a little bit. Evade SKILL that you can raise helps contribute to EVADING hits. While it helps an enemy MISS, the more evedent affect is evadeing. For example..
Skimmer misses Mitsurugi
VS
Mitsurugi evades
If i can get a screeny of my text box its much clearer. During my first cycle of Utsu: NI the mob missed me once and I evaded another hit. You pay attention to these tiny details bc if not, it will screw your count up. Although they both cause the enemy to miss an attack, without high/capped evade skill you will not EVADE (note:literal wording) as much. Evade needs an animation like Parry then people will notice it more i beleive.
I hope it makes sense....

[Kirk]

Mitsu in all my levels I have never ever EVADED a melee attack. The only time you evade is from an Area effect attack. Like the sleep attack onions do in Kazam.