Redmage - best subjob for ninja

[KingTonberryIV]

I was wondering - it seems the role of the ninja has become a tank because of blink. and the ninja could do other enfeeble using ninjitsu, etc. but doesnt the redmage already get blink? instead of buying powders, couldnt the ninja just cast blink on himself using the redmage sub? or at the least, he could save money by not using blink powders as much. a ninja with a rdm sub would get blink at lvl 46. thats not too shabby in my opinion. before the battle, he could also give himself stoneskin, phalanx, haste, en - spells, blazespikes etc. i think slapping these on himself would be just as beneficial as any ability thief or war, or any of the other subjobs can give.

also it would save him some moeny because he wouldnt need to buy some of those powders for blindness, poison etc. he could cast those himself.

just my two cents.

[Ghostlion]

From what I hear, the usutsemi blink is far more powerful than a redmage's blink. Especially if the ninja were lv 46. He would most likely have a blink that let him avoid at least 6 hits as opposed to the redmages 1 (or was it 2?)

[Aaramis]

Couple of quick comments :

1 - Ninjutsu Blink1 is about on par with the RDM Blink. Also keep in mind that you'll get the Ninjutsu Blink1 a LONG time before you get the RDM Blink. But yes, Blink2 certainly seems far better. I'd imagine the same goes for the 2nd version of some of the other debuffs as well (Blind, Slow, etc.), but can't verify it as...well... I'm not a lvl70 Ninja :p

2 - RDM spells are still a great combo. Elemental debuff with Ninjutsu, then cast the appropriate elemental nuke after that. In a group, you can debuff for your own magic bursts, or to help the other nukers in the group.
The RDM sub will also up your INT a bit, and help get less resists on your spells.
RDM spells also cost 0 gil to cast (obviously), so you can save on a few Ninjutsu spells by sticking with the RDM versions for now. You also get a bunch of spells the Ninja can't cast, such as Sneak, Protect, Cure(s), Gravity, etc.
En- buffs will add to your dps, but have a very short duration. These alone can drain your manapool very fast in a group.

3 - Phalanx, Stoneskin, and the like are great for absorbing damage. However, as a NIN/RDM the only time you should be tanking is if you're soloing :p In that situation, they'll be a great asset. But in groups, you probably won't use those spells at all.

4 - strongly suggested to either stock up on juices, or start working up Culinarian to make your own. 1 Juice will pretty much refill your manabar for quite a lot of levels, and allow you to actually use your mana.

It's a great combo, though, and more of a support melee/debuffer role (which I feel Ninjas were meant for), rather than a Blink tank. Between the RDM spells and Ninjutsu, you have ALOT of versatility to offer a group.
Just be sure to make use of it.

[Razz]

Some quick comments:

Ninja and Paladin are tanks only, therefore their best and only subjob is Warrior.

A mage subbed will give you half it's max skill for whatever magic, therefore you will be resisted if you subbed rdm.

Ninja's debuff ninjutsu is far far better than the mage's. I was using slow and blind version 2 at level 50 along with utsusemi and the enemy struggled to move and hit me. Too bad it's so expensive.

[Aaramis]

/shrug Razz.

I still feel the Ninja was intended for more than Provoke and chain-casting Utsesemi.

I've also heard from some others who have subbed RDM that they generally don't have a problem landing debuffs, so I think the combo could work IMO.

But to each their own.
Personally, I don't want to be NIN/WAR_90139507.

[Fendall]

I have been planning on going NIN/RDM for a while because I think it would be a lot of fun and a cool combo to play. Like aaramis said, NIN/WARs are so abundant already, something different is nice to see for a change. I think being able to debuff/buff and having the En spells will add a little extra something to NIN instead of voke/blink, voke/blink, voke/blink, etc.

[Bluejoker1118]

WTF who says ninjas are just tanks. They are heavy damage dealers if used correctly. And with blink you wont get damaged. So i think NIN/MNK would also work but taru NIN/RDM sounds cool

[tonka]

The RDM (and WHM get it at the same level) takes a very long time to cast. You cannot cast it while getting hit like Blink. I also think there is a lockout timer on it, so at best it will save you 1 blink powder per fight.

OTOH RDM get Fast Cast which should let you use powders quicker...

Even as RDM main there will be problems landing debuffs on IT mobs at later levels. As RDM sub, debuffs will have a lot of difficulty landing and require many casts at higher levels. It would be better if another mage did it.

A WHM is much better at landing debuff than a RDM subjob.

[Ghostlion]

Heheh, whenever I see someone saying that ninjas are tanks only, I imagine the shredder from TMNT or big, slow, heavily armored (and loud) people calling themselves ninjas (with a big N emblazoned on their armor just to prove it)

"I am samurai."

"Oh yeah?! Well I.R. Ninja, stoopid weasel sam R.I.!"

:spin:

[KingTonberryIV]

i dont think the whm debuff(enfeebling i think you mean?) spells will land better than the redmage. actually i am 100% sure that redmage has better enfeebling capability than a whitemage. so if someone decides to sub redmage, they will have a better chace enfeebling than a whitemage.


as for subbing war - thats true that subbing war gives you provoke, which is most important for a tank. so now i guess i dont know how a nin can keep hate on them. but if it wasnt for that fact, i think a nin/rdm would still be more versatile/fun to play than a nin/war. because a nin is already weak anyways and cant melee or defend without blink, so a warrior wouldnt really add much as a sub.


but what i dont understand is how the nin came to be the blink tank? if the other mages have blink, why are they not tanks too?

[Ghostlion]

From what others say, Usutsemi is a near instant cast while a mage's blink spell has quite a long casting time. Higher level Usutsemi will allow you to avoid multiple hits and require only gil instead of MP (so you can keep casting til you run out of powder)

[Vivid]

Have you seen the number next to Razz's "NIN"? It is "50" which means he has had more experience in leveling ninja than majority of the people replying here.

One thing I'd like to stress is that he doesn't type for his own good. He's got it made already, he can level ninja whenever he like and not give a crap about people on these boards, but he does. He posted his advice, don't trash him because of it.

I've been hearing a lot about people saying nin/rdm is awesome. But let me lay out the hard facts seeing as I look to be the ninja "head" around here.

Ninjas cannot deal massive damage. Even if used well. I've subbed thief my entire ninja career, until lately. The damage just doesn't add up when compared to a warrior or monk... Even thief can out damage a ninja during a battle. Simply put, ninjas are not damaging machines.

Ninjas will never have the MP to fufill the requirments of subbing red mage. Just think of it. Even if you cast rdm blink+ninja blink 1 and 2, you need to understand that: a) the two different types do not stack, and b) by the time you manage to do it, the monster is half dead and the mass amount of hate has already been distributed to your lead tank. In other words, you won't be able to stoneskin+blink+phalanx your way into the monster's sight.. Thus, making you a useless character (little damage, wasted MP, wasted slot in PT).

It's become dreadfully apparent to me that warrior IS the only GOOD sub for a ninja. Yeah, there are tons out there. Yeah, you'll want to stand out from the others. But trust me on this one, nin/thf is good while in the low levels, even fuidama won't be as horrific as a warrior's regular criticals. NIN/RDM may be good during the SUPER low levels (soloing purposes), and that's about it.

So, in the end, I hope you take this ?advice? and put it to good use. And if you think you know more about ninja then I do, then feel free to post and say so... Just so that people can laugh at you.

[Ghostlion]

So exactly how useless will I be as a ninja with a monk sub?

[Aaramis]

Viv, nobody's slamming Razz.

We're simply saying that some of us don't buy into the whole thing that the ONLY viable subclass for NIN is WAR.

And yes, I saw the signature with all those levels. Grats, want a cookie guys?
Trust me, I've played numerous MMORPGs, and levels do not necessarily mean knowledge about the game. I've grouped with high-end gamers who didn't know their arse from a hole in the ground, and other times with low level "noobies" who knew more instinctively about a game than some others ever would.
So while I value the insights and advice of the experienced ninjas, I don't blindly swallow everything someone says due to the fact that they're a "lvl60 / 60 / 60 / 50 / 30" or whatnot.

I also don't see anyone saying that they figure RDM will be a damage dealing NIN.
If I wanted a damage dealer, I'd go play a RNG or DRK. Simple as that.
We might do a bit more damage overall with that combo (En- buffs, and some mana for nukes), but we're still no "damage dealer" class, that's for sure.

I simply don't buy into the whole NIN class as being solely meant for Blink tanking. We have elemental DD/Debuffs, katanas with status effects, and in essence, we're a more expensive RDM in alot of ways.
So it would only seem to reason that we should combine well with RDM in some regards (in other regards it may be a redundant combination). We'll see with time I guess. I haven't hit the "high-end" material with this combo yet, so I guess I'll see soon. But so far I haven't had a problem. .

And although I don't agree with the title of this post that the RDM is the "perfect" subjob for the NIN, I do, however, feel it is still a viable combo. At least until 30+. Once I fight BCNM40s, things may change. But like I said, we'll see.

[one true zog]

This is advice coming from people who's main goal is to level, level, level.
You could put a monkey in front of a computer and it'd be lvl 75 in short order.