ninja question and opinion with something that happen in game - Final Fantasy XI :: Dreams in Vana'diel :: Community

Mantronic · 12-14-2003, 01:49 PM

ok here is the situation 17-19 in the dunes.

i was in a party with 2 ninja's one with sub of monk the other with sub of theif, neither with blink. I left that party cause honestly the ninjas werent worth having. then i begin to start up my own party i get 2 thfs 2 blms 1 whm, the 2 thfs have provoke but we needed a tank. The nin/thf from the previous party begins to /tell me to let him join. I answer No, thank you. you do not have provoke i have no use for a tank that cant tank that is the reason i left your previous party. He proceeded to tell me that he did plenty of damage to keep agro and that he was doing ninjitsu to help the blms out. I told him i dont have a need for a debuffing ninja that can not tank, again. he got upset started calling me a liar and stupid ect ect but he continued to bother me for a few minutes so i black listed him. so that is the senerio.

if you where setting up a party and there was ninja/thf ninja/mnk and you had 5 people in your current party and needed a tank would you pick a ninja that cant tank?

Maxim · 12-14-2003, 02:16 PM

Hehehe, no way. From levels 17 to 19 you'll be fighting Pugils, and those guys can hit pretty hard every now and then. Ninjas don't do a lot of damage either (when they melee) so there's no way they can keep hate. Their level Ichi ninjutsu barely scratches the monster so no hate in that either.

Even if that NIN/THF subbed WAR he still wouldn't be able to tank anyway because without Blink Ninjas take a ton of damage.

Mantronic · 12-14-2003, 02:33 PM

thank you max, made me feel better about my dission.

hocuspocus · 12-14-2003, 05:51 PM

ninja hater

gbay · 12-14-2003, 07:52 PM

woohoo garuda nijna lover!!
and ya that was a good descision, never accept useles members ~_~, you could of used me, ive low ninja with blink :woohoo:

hocuspocus · 12-14-2003, 08:11 PM

qweezy · 12-14-2003, 10:08 PM

You did the right thing. Any Ninja that didn't sub a War is a leech in the party. Don't even pick them if there are 5 empty slots in your group, because any other jobs besides the BST will out do the Ninja. They don't contribute much if they aren't tanking. Many players don't know what they're getting into when they picked the Ninja class, you need to burn $$$ to use this job effectively. You have take time off to farm for cash to support your leveling, if you don't want to do this then Ninja is not the class for you.

I started blink tanking when I was lvl 20 and have never stopped doing it, now i'm lvl 50. Being ahead of most of the NA players in levels, it's impossible to group with any of them. From lvl 30 to lvl 50, I've been in mostly Japanese groups. These guys are very experienced and very efficeint, they will try to get the most out of thier playtime. I have never been picked by a Japanese group when I don't have the "Utsusemi(Blink) x 500 Tank" comment up.

With a blink Ninja all you need is a good RDM in your party, a THF, and the rest all HEAVY damage dealers. Your exp will skyrocket with non stop pulling of Incredibly Tough mobs.

Cloak · 12-15-2003, 12:29 AM

You guys are soo wrong. I am a NIN/THF and I have no problem getting into parties... I have Blink and I use it to pull (without getting hit) and I do enough damage with Sneak Attack to even out the hate. To add to that I connect enough criticals to keep hate... you know since a NIN/THF has more dex than a NIN/WAR... This handicap you speak of is not true. Getting into parties is not a issue.

Having provoke doesnt put you over the top...

qweezy · 12-16-2003, 03:48 AM

Cloak your Ninja is still low lvl, and I'm gonna assume you're grouping with NA players. Most NA players are still clueless as to what a Ninja can and cannot do. They'll pick you regardless just to fill thier party. Try getting to the 45+ range(maybe 50 now) where you can't get into groups that easily. When you're competing with others for a spot in a group, having a good or gimp setup can make a huge difference whether you get into a group or spend another 3 hours waiting.

NIN/THF is a gimp setup, there is no other to go around this. Are you telling me your NIN/THF 1-2 extra DEX is gonna crit so much more ofhen then a NIN/WAR that'll you'll pull aggro? Sneak Attack have a 1 minute refresh time, and the extra dmg it does is about the same as a critical hit, it's not even a factor. You will not pull aggro with a NIN/THF, without aggro a Ninja is about useless. Once you get to higher lvls where Pentathrust and Raging Fist starts coming in, even with Provoke I have a hard time keeping stuff off these guys ... a NIN/THF have absolutely no chance to get aggro.

Zwillinge · 12-16-2003, 07:16 AM

i dont see why a ninja would want to be a tank in the first place. They are strictly dd and pullers. They can hold thier own like samurai when the aggros get to them, but a pal is a must.

There is no harm in experimenting though. I cannot stand pple who act like trying something new is soooo stupid. I plan on experimenting with a nin/mnk 'cause of martial art plus (using claws of course) and (once at lvl 60 mn, 30 sub) I can pull off some random kicks.

But not being put into a party isn't something to be freak out about. I always try to form my own. After a while i give up and just beg. But i say those who turn me down are just missing the fun and only care to see thier character at lvl 70 (oops 75 now) as quickly as they can.

I always invite ninjas and samurais, with a blk and wht mg and all rest samurais and nin. we go long ways. Our sam./ war. takes the dmg and then we have a voke chain to nin/war and then heal. (sam by then is stocked with tp). There is a lot of dwn time but what else do you want? Im happy as long as hour party is secure and nice to one and another.

we all know there are plenty of pals out there, no need for ninjas to tank. But i think its more important for you to enjoy your character rather then have others think you are of anyuse.

I am a N. A. player aswell, and as the rest, i dont like being stereotyped as a dumba$$ cause i had the game for a year less than the rest.

Who cares if someone thinks your useless, they didnt see you get this far, so they dont know what you can do.

Oh yes though..I wouldn't want a tank unless he had provoke. whether he can hold aggros or not, its just too risky. But that doesn't mean I'll tell everyone that in order to be a tank you need voke, just that id like to have a tank with it.

Ljarin · 12-16-2003, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by qweezy

NIN/THF is a gimp setup, there is no other to go around this. Are you telling me your NIN/THF 1-2 extra DEX is gonna crit so much more ofhen then a NIN/WAR that'll you'll pull aggro? Sneak Attack have a 1 minute refresh time, and the extra dmg it does is about the same as a critical hit, it's not even a factor. You will not pull aggro with a NIN/THF, without aggro a Ninja is about useless. Once you get to higher lvls where Pentathrust and Raging Fist starts coming in, even with Provoke I have a hard time keeping stuff off these guys ... a NIN/THF have absolutely no chance to get aggro.

At lv 4x with my Nin/Thf I quite often get aggro from our pld/war, nin/war and mnk/war, that's with the pld provoking every 30 sec and healing himself to try and keep aggro.

I'm the puller for our pt, I do a damn good job of it (not my words) and blink stops me taking hits if it even gets that close to me before I get whatever back to the rest of my pt so they can provoke it.

I do more than enough dmg to get aggro with or without sneak attack, so far I seem to miss a lot less than everyone else and with blink have no problems tanking for the times I have to when they can't get the mobs off me (and yes that does happen) And with thief sub we get my treasure hunter passive giving us more drops..and they love me for it.

Anyway, I don't want to sub warrior. I don't want to be a main tank that isn't what I made a ninja for. And you don't need 3+ main tanks in a group after you have your main tank whatever class combo they will be any other melee classes are there for dmg alone and the odd provoke. Not EVERY melee class MUST have provoke.

ssgoku3_99 · 12-16-2003, 10:36 AM

i am a thf/nin and i get invited to a lot of japanese groups. lately i have been grouping with the same jp players b/c of that one time that i was in thier group i knew how to skillchain and what not. my group is this pld/war, nin/war, thf/nin, blm, whm, rdm. the other person only provokes if we pull more than one so that he can keep the hate off mages. we really dont have down time. only when we pull more than one at a time, other than that its constant pulls. i say u make your character how you want to, and as long as you know how to play it someone will recognize you and will invite you to play more often.

Iago · 12-16-2003, 11:38 AM

I've been having some dilemmas with the whole perceived focus of the ninja job myself... it's nice to see some people espousing some other styles. I do suspect that the current method of using Blink is outside the developer's original intentions.. I wouldn't be surprised to see it get nerfed in some way; hopefully they would counterbalance that with something useful.

Search some of the high-level players sometime.. you'll see quite a few odd combinations here and there. Also important to bear in mind that some of these combinations take some levels to come to fruition.. I can see NIN/THF working fine, but I would probably not set THF as subjob until Sneak Attack would be usable. When soloing 5th level, I did half as a NIN/THF and the other half as NIN/WAR.. suffice to say the second half went about five times faster!

Mantronic · 12-16-2003, 12:22 PM

for the people playing nin/thf as a puller is switch it to thf/nin if you want to pull and still have the ninja abilities thf/nin is 10x better combination treasurehunter 2 yokomoda actually now fudimoda.

and for those that are confused ninja is a tank best tank in the game if used correctly paladin is #2, in all honesty if they are taking you as a puller nin/thf you are actually hurting the party because a thief/ninja will do the same thing more efficently and the drops are way better. play what you like when you have to beg to get into a party it should make you think or if they are picking you to pull is because they cant find a thf there lvl. with the changed to yokomoda you need 1 pure tank and one backup tank

one true zog · 12-16-2003, 12:49 PM

by the time he gets to that high level, he should have enough friends who know how he plays and will take him regardless.

This game isn't all about cold, hard stats..there's also the social aspect which you cleary fail to see.

My goal is to be nin/thf..and to all the bleeding pussies that moan that I'm not tanking, they can pony up the gil for my blink bag supply.