[Armando]

The argument that it's not really a cheat because "everyone" uses it is getting old, and was never rational or based in reality in the first place. I suggest its users be honest with themselves like Kaeko; it's a cheat, because SE gets to define what is 'legit' and what is not, so weight the chances of being caught vs. the benefit it brings. And, be prepared to lose one's account if caught.

That was all completely besides Aks' point though.

This game takes no skill from the player's part. It's all equipment, gear swaps, and knowledge. And hell, your equipment doesn't even have to be that great, you just have to know what to wear. I would be terribly amused to hear I'm a terrible player because I use spellcast. Would I cringe and grind my teeth as I wrestle with the GUI if you took spellcast away from me? Totally. But Joe Schmoe over there certainly isn't a better player than me for putting up with laggy 6-line macros.

[Takelli]

Originally Posted by Kailea

Really I laugh more at the people that call seeing your recast timer in a different place, cheating ;p

Its not that its cheating. Its that it is messing with the coding of the game.

[Armando]

Yeah, well, the game's coding is pretty stupid =P

EDIT: And as a pre-emptive measure - I know it's still cheating. But the UI is still stupid!

[Rothy]

I would much rather do a cheat that does not hurt anyone else, that helps me enjoy this game a lot more. Then wrestle with the shitty UI that this game has and its crappy 6 line lagfest of a macro system.

But that's just me.

[Kailea]

Originally Posted by Rothy

I would much rather do a cheat that does not hurt anyone else, that helps me enjoy this game a lot more. Then wrestle with the shitty UI that this game has and its crappy 6 line lagfest of a macro system.

But that's just me.

yeah thats what I do, and thats what I honestly dont call cheating

and yeah my other post about cheating/bad player... I really missworded that ;p because I would jsut be calling myself bad, in a way

lets see.... recast, yarnball, autoexec, are just a few I use, and alot of .txt files in my macros ;p

[Rothy]

I don't have any .txt files.. but for BRD and BLM I have GIANT Spellcast XML spreadsheets that I would hate to go without.. I CAN go without them, but I'd rather not.

[Kailea]

Originally Posted by Rothy

I don't have any .txt files.. but for BRD and BLM I have GIANT Spellcast XML spreadsheets that I would hate to go without.. I CAN go without them, but I'd rather not.

yeah I used to be against windower and its add ons, for a good 3 years... till I wised up and now don't think I could enjoy the game the same without them.

but yeah we still have 3 days till the update, they might throw something at us last minute ;p

[Rothy]

I haven't given up hope yet and I really don't mind if they don't give me the updates I really want (BLM). I just want to see that SE actually tries sometimes, which they have been doing somewhat (Union, Augments, Northlands in WoTG)

They pulled great stuff out like that (maybe a bit flawed in the Augment area) and then turn around with crap like the new bell octaves that no one can even hear by default.

[Yellow Mage]

"Never send to know for whom the bells lol; they lol for thee."

[Grizzlebeard]

Originally Posted by Armando

This game takes no skill from the player's part.

All games take varying levels of skill to complete, stating otherwise in regards to FFXI because it's lost its shine just smacks of an infant throwing its toys out the pram.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Originally Posted by Armando

This game takes no skill from the player's part. It's all equipment, gear swaps, and knowledge. And hell, your equipment doesn't even have to be that great, you just have to know what to wear.

Full stop.

First off, you're separating knowledge from skill when the two are inseparable. Takes a pretty good mind to remember all the nuances of enemy weakness, how to max out damage, coordinate groups, strategies and so on. Skill does not just begin or end with the gear you obtain and what you learned off a wiki.

Many people in this game are unskilled, without having someone to tell them what to do, they'd barely be able to take down an HNM much less tie their own shoelaces. They are just there to acquire things, not think, and derive their satisfaction from getting things. Anyone who wants to debate this point, feel free to refer to the countless EXP PTs where either you or others just stood around with your minds a complete blank when you're asked where you'd like to EXP.

Leadership is a skill, the game requires leaders and knowledgable followers that actually speak up and present ideas tend to be an asset. They get things done. When these things don't happen, the game becomes a real headache, I don't think we need Callisto to come in here with his old Dynamis horror stories or me to recount CoP experiences to illustrate that.

Time management is a skill as well, many players are poor at it. They sit in Whitegate and bemoan thier lack of invites when they could be doing Fields of Valor, level syncing with a friend or soloing to make some degree of progress. They could go craft or do mission progress, but they usually just focus on this one thing they want to do. They don't get things done.

So, there are a lot of traits that make players skilled or unskilled, both from the game itself and from a personal standpoint. You have to keep in mind that MMORPGs are social experiences by design and that if you have difficulty communicating in the first place, you're going to be left behind and never going to be any kind of leader.

I would be terribly amused to hear I'm a terrible player because I use spellcast. Would I cringe and grind my teeth as I wrestle with the GUI if you took spellcast away from me? Totally. But Joe Schmoe over there certainly isn't a better player than me for putting up with laggy 6-line macros.

I've found that when you don't have access to certain programs to start with, you tend not to get spoiled on them. I managed to make it past five years without any of them. Access to recast timers is a simple imput away within the system itself. I just seem to have a feel for it, so I don't even do that. Even if I did play this game on PC, I'd avoid using third party tools not for fear of getting banned, but because I'm rather sensitive about downloading strange programs that could harbor other functions like stealing my personal information. Once you get your identity stolen once, you're pretty paranoid about it from that point onward.

[Vyuru]

Access to recast timers is a simple imput away within the system itself.

Button mashing for the win!!!

You must wait longer before repeating that action.


:/

[Armando]

Originally Posted by Omgwtfbbq

*snip*

You know what I mean. There's no muscle memory, there's very few maneuvers to do, there's no timed button inputs (at best you time something between mob attacks. So hard!), nada. Everything in this game is automatic. It's all knowledge. If you want to get philosophical about what kinds of knowledge are also skills, leave me out, it's besides the point. If you really want to, I'll rephrase and argue that the only skills needed are those that can be obtained through knowledge, no practice or muscle memory needed.

You call people unskilled, I call them ignorant/uneducated in the ways of this game. The point was that all that's needed to get ahead in this game is gear, macros, and knowledge. Everything else is automatic. If you have the knowledge, and you're not a fucking retard or a douchebag, you succeed at this game, period. I win harder at DD jobs I've never played than the random pickup guy because I know more than them. I've known how to play PLD better since the mid levels than even high level people wearing R.K. Belts simply because I know better. It's not much different from some generic ATB-based RPG. You just stand there issuing commands. Know which commands to use? You've already won the fight.

You could give me a Lv.60 DRK right now, give me some time to make my macros, and I would succeed. Don't even have to give it to me geared; I know precisely what to buy. What do I have to do? The gist of it can be summed up as autoattack, Stun, Souleater Abs-TP, and Guillotine. I know when to each, because I an understanding of enmity. I'll stand there and hit a macro for each action. Knowing what I have to do is all I need. There isn't some DRK skill that actually takes practice and thus I wouldn't be able to perform never having played the job.

Sure if you gave me something like BRD, I would have to get a feel for distances and positioning. But that's not something that takes weeks or months of playing the job to master either.

[Takelli]

Originally Posted by Vyuru

You must wait longer before repeating that action.

I get that when soloing. I start casting a spell, then I go to draw my weapon. "You must wait longer before performing that action." -.-;

Originally Posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten

I've found that when you don't have access to certain programs to start with, you tend not to get spoiled on them. I managed to make it past five years without any of them. Access to recast timers is a simple imput away within the system itself. I just seem to have a feel for it, so I don't even do that. Even if I did play this game on PC, I'd avoid using third party tools not for fear of getting banned, but because I'm rather sensitive about downloading strange programs that could harbor other functions like stealing my personal information. Once you get your identity stolen once, you're pretty paranoid about it from that point onward.

I completly agree with that statement about the spoiled part. I NEVER used any kind of windower, and I've learned to adjust to the lag of the UI, and Macro system. I only use five macros at max. Cure, Haste, Refresh, and recast of haste, and refresh. Everything else I just cast manually as needed. The UI, isn't that bad if you learn how to deal with it (Except in beseiged SO MUCH LAGG! lol). I have never been trust worthy of a third party program either. Its like you expect to download something to help you, but in return, you get your identity stolen or some shit like that. Thats something that NO ONE ever wants to go through.

[Firewind]

You could give me a Lv.60 DRK right now, give me some time to make my macros, and I would succeed. Don't even have to give it to me geared; I know precisely what to buy. What do I have to do? The gist of it can be summed up as autoattack, Stun, Souleater Abs-TP, and Guillotine.

If you are a DRK and you spam those endlessly in a party where I'm a PLD or WHM I WILL let you die . Sorry but DDs going all out is not fun at all if you're tanking or main healing.