[Durahansolo]

If Ninja was based on a more realistic historical role, it'd probably be able to use Tonko and Monomi to form some sort of sneak attack critical on the mob (Which would possibly be similar to the Hide JA). Ninja does have that one job trait that makes you less visible or heard by (Don't remember which, been so long since I've played NIN.) enemies or something, but does that even work?

Edit>> I Really stopped reading this thread a few pages back, when the whole Job Realism topic came about, so if somebody already said this, my apologies.

[Malacite]

Stealth just lowers an enemy's detection range IIRC.

---------- Post added at 12:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:24 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Vyuru

They did, it's called SA & TA, players just don't invite thiefs into parties much, from what I have seen lately, and when they do no one will work with them to use their abilities to the fullest. Don't blame SE for the player's habits.

THF can do that with anyone though really. I meant actually giving NIN a new JA or trait (that ability to drop hate then get it right back they talked about would also be interesting)

[Akashimo]

Originally Posted by Ziero

Those weren't the golden days because that only meant that more gimps would be allowed in the alliance to make good thfs look bad. That might have been the golden days for Mr FulltimeDragonharnessandaflegs, but for good thfs, those were dark, dark times.

Were for my eyes, no gimp geared thfs as I've been seeing lately. Back then majority knew how to use Trick Attack properly -.-; Now I see some that uses it as Sneak Attack and not behind someone -_-;

[Vyuru]

Originally Posted by Malacite

THF can do that with anyone though really.

Technically they can, but not really.

Ideally for SATAing onto someone, and at 60+ just TA alone, you either want to do it onto the tank, someone who can shed hate, or someone who can avoid all the damage the mob will toss their way. The only jobs that come to mind that can do that are Pld and Nin for tanking, Drg and Bst(jug pets only though) for hate shedding, and people who are /nin and /sam for damage avoidance.

However, Utsu: Ni and Seigan/TE are not available until lvl 74, so Thfs are restricted in who they can safely TA onto, which is basically tanks until they are paired up with a Drg at lvl 50, and I have no idea when Bsts get their hate transfer to the jug pet ability.

Yes, Thf can still TA onto other people, but it would be foolish. How many Wars or Drks are going to want to be SATA'd onto in the lvl 40 range say?

Yes, you could point out that anyone with just Utsu: Ichi alone might be able to handle it, but against a good SATA+Viper Bite, or just plain SATA, plus all their original enmity? Six shadows, the original 3 up and then a recast when two shadows are used, bringing you to 6, are all they are going to get. If the mob was enfeebled they may get more, however few parties bother to enfeeble nowadays. Even with a mob inflicted with blind/slow/paralyze, I see far too many people with Utsu: Ichi alone spending half of the fight trying to regain shadows.

So the reality of the situation is that Thf are limited in who they can SATA onto, which brings me back to my earlier point that a full up ninja, who at 37+ can use Utsu: Ich and Ni, can quite easily survive being SATA'd onto, which other jobs can't. Pld would work as well, but unlikely to see a Pld in a DD/SATA buddy role. It is also quite uncommon for their to be two tanks in the party, let alone for a Thf to be willing to bounce SATA and tanking roles like that, so by and large you won't see it.

So no, I wouldn't say that Thf could SA onto just about anyone.

[Nuriko]

I had a PT in the Citadel basement where I was being SATAed on to as SAM ... but then, that was the second SATA, the first went on to the PLD (who I was setting up with first voke) and there usually wasn't time or need for a repeat.

[Ziero]

When I leveled Thf, I would SATA onto anyone who had balls enough to stand still behind the mob

When I leveled War, I was the one who had balls enough to stand behind the mob so a Thf could SATA.

The initial SATA pre 60 should always land on the tank. You need to set up a first voke scenario and have players able to line up quickly and efficiently. If people in my PT couldn't do that, then to hell with them I'll SATA whoever I could. But in good pts, the initial SATA and whatever tricks the tank through out after it landed was always enough to throw out another SATA mid fight, and unless we were overhunting, the mob would be dying/dead at that point.

[Sekighara]

Well because I really don't care to much about my own well being I will let a sata go on my dark when the tanks hate tools are ready. But normally when I do invite a thf, I plan on being first voke take a few hits and then the sata goes off the tank. And from then on we are a normal party. I am only up to 51 right now but I did it on my 70 I had before i quit. Mostly it is just the intial two hits that have to be taken and the thf to be paying attention instead of bsing waiting for the last bit of tp because they just refuse to save it. So a War/nin would be first voke and then tank has it. SATA recast comes up war vokes and ws and then sata ws. If i remember correctly there is a powerful sc that can be done at 60 ranges opening up for magic bursts. These are old school strats but when I gather a party they are willing to attempt what ever plan I have.

[Neverslip]

Originally Posted by Ziero

When I leveled Thf, I would SATA onto anyone who had balls enough to stand still behind the mob

When I leveled War, I was the one who had balls enough to stand behind the mob so a Thf could SATA.

I like the cut of your jib, good sir...

I too SATA'd anyone ballsy enough to stand behind the mob... and I'd place my SAM readily behind the mob to see if the Thf's I was pt'n with were ballsy enough to SATA me

****************************
Something I'd like....

Make BLM more enticing for mid-high level partying... Sux they are expected at every end-game event, yet shafted in trying to grow the job in a timely and less frustrating fashion. Mines' only 17, I simply feel bad for them.

[Karinya]

Originally Posted by Ziero

When I leveled Thf, I would SATA onto anyone who had balls enough to stand still behind the mob

When I leveled War, I was the one who had balls enough to stand behind the mob so a Thf could SATA.

The initial SATA pre 60 should always land on the tank. You need to set up a first voke scenario and have players able to line up quickly and efficiently. If people in my PT couldn't do that, then to hell with them I'll SATA whoever I could. But in good pts, the initial SATA and whatever tricks the tank through out after it landed was always enough to throw out another SATA mid fight, and unless we were overhunting, the mob would be dying/dead at that point.

That's the way it used to be done, before ToAU. Few people are willing, or perhaps even able, to apply that kind of coordination today.

Main SAM have Seigan from 35 - it's only /SAMs who have to wait until 70. So Seigan+TE, first voke, SATA on tank, then Hasso and switch back to DD is actually fairly painless, if your THF and tank have the skill to handle it.

BLUs also have enough ways of keeping themselves alive to make a good first voker, if they're willing.