[Aksannyi]

I don't want front line updates. If I wanted to melee, I'd level a fucking melee job.

Sure it's fun sometimes but I'd much rather be in the backline. Add a frontline aspect to any mage job and you'll have even more people bitching about what we do/don't do. Fuck that.

[Losrase]

I started leveling my 24 beast in Buburimu Peninsula and I am loving the FoV and treasure caskets. I was getting temporary prism powers, silent oils, potions +1/+3, elixir +1, ether +2/+3, and antidotes. Out of the 12 caskets I saw only 1 was a locked one.

With the FoV I was doing the quests and getting 100-120 exp per mob kill plus the 550 exp and gil for completing the list. Going from 24-25 was a breeze.

Now I going to dig up some old leveling guides pre CoP

[TheGrandMom]

Originally Posted by Aksannyi

I don't want front line updates. If I wanted to melee, I'd level a fucking melee job.

Sure it's fun sometimes but I'd much rather be in the backline. Add a frontline aspect to any mage job and you'll have even more people bitching about what we do/don't do. Fuck that.

Damn straight! You go girl!

[BurningPanther]

Originally Posted by Aksannyi

Add a frontline aspect to any mage job and you'll have even more people bitching about what we do/don't do.

You're serious?

I'm just gonna quote you:

Originally Posted by Aksannyi

Tell those people "tough shit."

While I'm not sure how they're going to make a RDM frontline update viable, I can at least see some intent behind WHM frontline. Mystic Boon is one boss ass Weapon Skill, but it's not the only club Weapon Skill to recover MP. WHM has access to a myriad (though not all are great), of club Weapon Skills offering MP recovery, all they need is the situations to use them. In this, an improvement in WHM frontlining serves a purpose, working particularly well for pre-merit levels.


Personally, I think the devs should introduce new TP gain methods beyond just hitting and getting hit. They opened the door with Shield Mastery, it would be nice to see the same idea applied to other skills as well.

[Ziero]

Originally Posted by Armando

I doubt that's even what this is about, since we were still in the ToAU era when SE said they wanted to add incentives for RDM and WHM to move into the front lines.

Either way, that's not a very good reason to not buff a job.

But are additions to a job that do not help them achieve their main job better even considered buffs? Why the hell do Whm need an increase in melee capabilities? Under no circumstances, in any situation, would I want a Whm to melee mobs that we need a Whm to fight against. What Whm and Rdm should get are things that enhance their best attributes as White mages and Red mages. Things to enhance their support capabilities, healing abilities and enfeebling potential. But somehow pushing Whm and Rdm to the "frontlines" will not help these two jobs in any area except ones where they're already on the "frontlines". And while I can understand throwing Rdm a bone and buffing their Melee skills for the sake of just because...is doing the same to Whm *really* that good of an idea?

We already have a support job who's not only built for meleeing, but *requires* meleeing to function. It's abilities and gear are far superiour to Whm and Rdm in the melee front, and the only way it can do it's job is to hit the mob. And how has that job been doing in these endgame situations?

Edit: But then again, maybe their idea to "bring Whm to the frontlines" will be akin to their last attempt to do that. I.E. the short range on bar-spells and merit JAs, causing Whm to run back and forth between the PT and the "back-line". If that's the case, then it's understandable. But at the same time, I still haven't met a Whm who enjoys doing that.

[Armando]

But are additions to a job that do not help them achieve their main job better even considered buffs? Why the hell do Whm need an increase in melee capabilities? Under no circumstances, in any situation, would I want a Whm to melee mobs that we need a Whm to fight against.

That's a lie, unless all you ever do is HNMs. If a WHM could do something useful (which doesn't necessarily imply damage,) in the front lines safely, you would want them to. Note that they don't necessarily say they want WHM to STAY in the front lines.

Besides fixing mages' dependency on elemental staves (which should pretty much be a given if they expect mages to be able to do anything involving a weapon that isn't an elemental staff), they could give WHM a self-only Regain spell. Every X seconds, the WHM will be able to run in, do a WS, and run back out. Hell, like BP said they could get a bit more creative and do something like giving TP for the points of HP someone recovers via that WHM's Regens.

[Akashimo]

Give whm and rdm homam access? That'll be the perfect update to me >.> <.< >.> what?

Anyways, Mystic boon sucks on anything with def and it needs a lot of mnd to be of any use outside of meripo D: Higher skill for clubs and maybe make the damage more friendly would really amp it up.

A TP reigan spell, if its not for rdm i'd say sch would get it. Tactical mage giving Tactical points

[Yellow Mage]

Originally Posted by BurningPanther

You're serious?

I'm just gonna quote you:

You got thanked just for that.

Also, I am going to assume that Aka is being 100% sarcastic with his entire post. All of it.

[Armando]

Anyways, Mystic boon sucks on anything with def and it needs a lot of mnd to be of any use outside of meripo D: Higher skill for clubs and maybe make the damage more friendly would really amp it up.

That's because no amount of MND is going to make it not suck if Attack is your problem.

A TP reigan spell, if its not for rdm i'd say sch would get it. Tactical mage giving Tactical points

Functionality first, flavor later. Call it Divine Inspiration if you want to.

[Akashimo]

Originally Posted by Yellow Mage

Also, I am going to assume that Aka is being 100% sarcastic with his entire post. All of it.

Nope. But I wasn't 100% serious either. More of on the fence. I do wish/want to see homam for rdm and whm :3

Originally Posted by Armando

Functionality first, flavor later. Call it Divine Inspiration if you want to.

I can work with that.

Originally Posted by Armando

That's because no amount of MND is going to make it not suck if Attack is your problem.

Meatkabobs to raise atk to at least 340, +30mnd and still lingering around 100~140.

[Callisto]

I'm honestly pleased with my current melee ability as a RDM. I can't do a shitton of epeen damage, but with sword merits I can reliably hit most mobs with Sushi, I have a relatively large amount of Haste gear combined with access to two multi-hit swords, and they just added a new earring that can bump me up to 25dmg/swing Enspells before adding in ESword/Fencer's Ring. That's a nice replacement for Brutal which in all honestly wasn't doing a whole lot combined with Joyeuse. Death Blossom has fantastic skillchain properties and benefits other party members with it's additional effect.

I have a large amount of solid melee gear at my disposal, and my casting abilities don't suffer gigantic dropoffs when using a melee sub. My beef is this: Either give me a Sword that can match elemental staves in Magic Accuracy(and no, mythic does not count because that is entirely unrealistic for 99% of RDMs to get) or add 2 more gobbybags so that I CAN ACTUALLY CARRY MY MELEE GEAR.

I don't need a new TP spell, I don't need a massive new WS or attack boost, I just want to be able to carry the shit I already own, and to be able to land basic enfeebles without having to swap to weapons that I for some reason have 0 skill in but are required to have on me at all times since I can't land debuffs without them on many high-end mobs. I don't want a frontline update unless they can make it so that I can carry the gear I need to make it worth moving up to the front lines.

Adding a Sword with something like 25-30 MAcc would honestly set me, and it wouldn't push RDM over the edge in terms of balance since it wouldn't be an actual attack buff.

That said, I don't really care for a frontline buff. I know which situations are good for me to melee in, and I melee in those(2 nights ago I nearly cleared Temenos East with PLD COR RDM, with me providing a Light opener and a solid amount of melee damage via enspells).

Instead I want an enfeebling buff, or rather a mob resistance nerf. I want to be able to actually reliably land debuffs on mobs that came out in 04 when I have gear that far surpasses what was available when they were created. I want to be able to maybe cast something other than Dia on Hydra and Cerb.

At this point though I am interested in what they have in store, I don't really think RDM *needs* any updating because they're lacking in any department(except maybe Dark Magic skill), but more just to say that we're not the only job that hasn't been updated since before Zilart came out.

[Yellow Mage]

Originally Posted by Callisto

and they just added a new earring that can bump me up to 25dmg/swing Enspells before adding in ESword/Fencer's Ring.

Woah, woah, wait, what? I must have missed that memo. Please show me.

[Callisto]

Lyc. Earring
Magic Accuracy+1
Sword enhancement spell damage +2
CanEquip, NoSale, Ex, Rare
All 72

My friend figured out the math for me, if you are single wielding Joyeuse(effectively turning a Brutal into 2.5% DA instead 5%), as long as you are doing less than 80ish per sword swing you will do more damage with the extra 2 damage/swing. Me want.

[Kitalrez]

I dunno, I disagree with all the WHMs so far. I'd like the opportunity to do some melee damage. Hexa Strike doesn't earn itself...

I guess those of you who didn't solo your way to 20 on WHM before you got your subjobs unlocked wouldn't understand this. I used to solo EM and DC zu's outside Mhaura for exp. (A feat I only remember because I would answer tells from my friends by telling them how many more Zus it would take me to level). For a while in there, I could pull this off. God help me if I try it now.

I had an expectation, though. Square let me earn this expectation. I could solo on this job. It would suck balls and I'd give my right eye for a party, but it was doable. For the original game and parts of RoZ, this actually worked for a decent amount of time. You couldn't level fast, but you could actually level. Now if I want to level period on WHM, I pretty much have to solo campaign... which makes me a front-liner to earn anything vaguely resembling decent exp. Sadly, I suck balls at this. Even BLM can't really backline exp in Campaign. The way they set up hate and exp awards, you're really better off smacking it's knees with your staff and firing off the occasional nuke. It's not even worth it to DoT.

It doesn't make sense, though. I'm wielding a fucking sledgehammer. Not only that, I'm the only job in the game who can actually wield sledgehammers. If you're on a battlefield in plate armor facing Yao Ming with a claymore and Verne Troyer with a sledge, worry about Verne. Yao needs a few swings because your armors set up to deal with him. Verne's just gotta connect with your knee once, and not really hard. Now you're kneeling or face down and he can reach your head.

We have spells and abilities that should have made us decent v. Skeletons and Undead. We have Banish for crying out loud. Holy? What's Holy even good for except getting a PLD hate fast? I Cure V'd a ghost once and would've been better off using my club on the damn thing. En spells shouldn't just add elemental damage to your weapon, they should've changed all your damage from physical to elemental. A party of MNKs, RDMs and WHMs should've rocked out loud for fighting undead. Gustav Tunnel, KRT, and Arripago Reef should've been our bitch. They're not. If S-E's going to take away something inherent to the job, (even if I had playing that healer role with a passion), they could at least bump the other parts of the job that have never been brought up to where they should be.

[Armando]

I had an expectation, though. Square let me earn this expectation. I could solo on this job. It would suck balls and I'd give my right eye for a party, but it was doable. For the original game and parts of RoZ, this actually worked for a decent amount of time. You couldn't level fast, but you could actually level. Now if I want to level period on WHM, I pretty much have to solo campaign...

Are you saying a WHM can't kill EPs-DCs at 75?

It doesn't make sense, though. I'm wielding a fucking sledgehammer. Not only that, I'm the only job in the game who can actually wield sledgehammers. If you're on a battlefield in plate armor facing Yao Ming with a claymore and Verne Troyer with a sledge, worry about Verne. Yao needs a few swings because your armors set up to deal with him. Verne's just gotta connect with your knee once, and not really hard. Now you're kneeling or face down and he can reach your head.

Nothing about this game's combat system makes any sense. FFXI great swords have 20 times the mass of any hammer in the game, and not every opponent has knees or wears armor anyways.

We have spells and abilities that should have made us decent v. Skeletons and Undead. We have Banish for crying out loud. Holy? What's Holy even good for except getting a PLD hate fast? I Cure V'd a ghost once and would've been better off using my club on the damn thing. En spells shouldn't just add elemental damage to your weapon, they should've changed all your damage from physical to elemental. A party of MNKs, RDMs and WHMs should've rocked out loud for fighting undead. Gustav Tunnel, KRT, and Arripago Reef should've been our bitch. They're not. If S-E's going to take away something inherent to the job, (even if I had playing that healer role with a passion), they could at least bump the other parts of the job that have never been brought up to where they should be.

It's true that Holy and cure nukes are useless, but the Banish line will put up decent numbers against undead (especially Banish III), and more importantly temporarily removes their physical resistances. In any case, KRT on bones WAS a hot merit spot before ToAU, and I don't see why you'd expect any undead mob other than bones to be weak to hammers.