[Malacite]

Originally Posted by Karinya

On the other hand if the new belts were "only" on the level of Ninurta's Sash, why would a brown belted monk be interested?

Err... say that again? I don't quite follow you on this one, as Ninurta's Sash is pretty effing broken for all non-MNKs.

[Karinya]

@Ziero: I think if you think "many" people take snipers+1 for anything, you are a little out of touch with reality.

Overall, though, I don't think anyone (outside of people who think snipers+1 are everyday gear, lol) looked at either the CoP or ToAU rings and said "I have better stuff than that already" - exactly what stats would you put on a neck piece to make it attractive to a melee who already has +7 skill torque?

@Mal: That's my point. Any belt that isn't totally broken will be junk to MNKs, which is hardly fair to them. *And* the fact that their belts are no longer 100% more awesome than non-MNK belts but only (say) 50% more awesome will affect job balance - although, arguably, MNKs are already overpowered and the implicit nerf wouldn't necessarily be for the worse.

Any belt has this problem, but most gear isn't expected to be useful to everyone - mission rewards *are* expected to have some use for any job (if you choose the right one), that's the standard SE has already set.


One thing we haven't examined yet - since mission rewards give a choice of several pieces of gear, why do the pieces all have to be from the same slot? Let the player choose if they want a belt, cape or necklace. (You need to design more gear if you want to give everyone a choice of slots *and* roles that the gear will have useful stats for, though.)

[Ziero]

Originally Posted by Karinya

@Ziero: I think if you think "many" people take snipers+1 for anything, you are a little out of touch with reality.

Because there's totally not a large, highly active end-game community in this game who will have no problems plopping down 3mil for 2 acc, right?

Overall, though, I don't think anyone (outside of people who think snipers+1 are everyday gear, lol) looked at either the CoP or ToAU rings and said "I have better stuff than that already" - exactly what stats would you put on a neck piece to make it attractive to a melee who already has +7 skill torque?

The point is that just because there are already better, rarer to obtain items then Mission rewards doesn't mean the mission reward isn't useful. Anyone with any half a brain would easily take a Snipers+1, a non-mission reward, over the Ulths ring for most of the game. Rng and Cors usually choose better Racc or Str/Agi rings over the Jalz ring. Brutal Earring isn't a mission reward but it's much more useful then most of the DM earrings including the Suppa. And just lol at the Sattva.

The point is, just because other items may already be better then a mission reward item doesn't mean they can't add said mission reward. Throw a latent on the thing that only works in XX situation or make it scalable like the CoP rings and there will be no problems with the item getting use.

@Mal: That's my point. Any belt that isn't totally broken will be junk to MNKs, which is hardly fair to them. *And* the fact that their belts are no longer 100% more awesome than non-MNK belts but only (say) 50% more awesome will affect job balance - although, arguably, MNKs are already overpowered and the implicit nerf wouldn't necessarily be for the worse.

You insult me for saying that a lot of people have Sniper+1s then complain about Mnk belts having some sort of major affect on balance? Black Belt is far rarer then Sniper+1 and the Brown Belt isn't that much stronger then belts other melees can wear. They could easily fit a melee belt bewteen Black and Brown that would be useful to all melees. They just don't need to because not every job will find use from every mission reward item.

Any belt has this problem, but most gear isn't expected to be useful to everyone - mission rewards *are* expected to have some use for any job (if you choose the right one), that's the standard SE has already set.

The DM earrings are only good for specific jobs, to the point where most of them are useless to 19 out of 20 jobs. Sattva ring, is again, a joke, because no tank wears Agi/Vit rings, and you can get more hate from more Acc then +3 enmity. The AN earrings are situationally good for some jobs, but are overshadowed by other earrings. Mission rewards are all hightly situational and often job specific in terms of use.

[Malacite]

Originally Posted by Ziero

the Brown Belt isn't that much stronger then belts other melees can wear.

5 STR and 8 Haste isn't much stronger?

Unless you have a Speed/Velocious belt I'm calling Bull Shit on you sir.