[Kailea]

The whole "it should have been there to begin with" argument is flawed anyway.

If this game had all the "extra stuff" it has now, alot of players would be crappier/lazier then they are now -.-

Basically adding this stuff now is like saying "you all earned this, here ya go, leveling other jobs you have, will be a little easier now"

All MMORPGs start off diffrently, and grow diffrently. FFXI is growing, if adding new things/fixing old things is "SE you suck" then, yeah you go ahead.......

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Originally Posted by Malacite

The fact that the majority of players take up their jobs from 10-20 in the dunes? And the idiocy of having to be at the level you typically leave an area to warp there?

You guys still want to go on and on about how it was so hard to get to the dunes. No one ever made you go. I didn't touch the dunes on SCH, BLU, SAM or DNC in the last couple of years of levelling new things. I barely visited it on RNG. I've never been to a conventional camp as BST, period.

Just because people are morons doesn't mean SE has to swiftly adjust the game to compensate for lemmings.

You went to the dunes by choice when other options were available. You still go there when there are even more options now.

And had they adjusted it five year ago, most of the people from Windurst wouldn't have been able to get the outpost. Time has passed, Windurst gets the place once in a blue moon and some people still don't bother to get the outpost.

There's no patch or adjustment for stupid people. Tell me you don't know people with multiple 75s that still don't know what the fuck they're doing and then tell me SE "fails."

No, that's the players who want everything handed to them. They fail.

[TheGrandMom]

Originally Posted by Kailea

If this game had all the "extra stuff" it has now, alot of players would be crappier/lazier then they are now -.-

So basically if we would have had some of these adjustments that they've done through the years back in the earlier days of the game, "alot of players would be crappier/lazier then they are now." So does that mean that all the players that got the adjustments after us older players are "crappier/lazier players" than us? and that as they do more adjustments we'll just have more and more "crappier/lazier players"?

[Malacite]

Originally Posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten

You guys still want to go on and on about how it was so hard to get to the dunes. No one ever made you go. I didn't touch the dunes on SCH, BLU, SAM or DNC in the last couple of years of levelling new things. I barely visited it on RNG. I've never been to a conventional camp as BST, period.

You're missing the point entirely, which was making the warps only usable after you're done EXPing in that area. And good for you, I've soloed a number of jobs myself but this is an MMO and not everyone likes to/wants to solo. I like having it as a viable option but I still prefer group play so stow the self righteousness already.

[Kailea]

Originally Posted by TheGrandMom

So basically if we would have had some of these adjustments that they've done through the years back in the earlier days of the game, "alot of players would be crappier/lazier then they are now." So does that mean that all the players that got the adjustments after us older players are "crappier/lazier players" than us? and that as they do more adjustments we'll just have more and more "crappier/lazier players"?

no not entirely, because the old players still teach the new players the important things. What I was mainly getting at..... or trying to get at, is that it's asinine ( hey I used a big word ^.^ kind of....) to say "oh SE sucks/fails" when all they are doing, is fixing old things, and adding new things -,- even though its "to late". Its never to late as long as its within the games life sapn.

[Ziero]

Originally Posted by Malacite

The fact that the majority of players take up their jobs from 10-20 in the dunes? And the idiocy of having to be at the level you typically leave an area to warp there?

They wanted you to rough it to your exp camps, to walk or choco and get there the hard way. They wanted you to have to go through the zones and see their scenery and dodge their aggro mobs to get where you needed to. And the reward for finishing up in a certain area was being able to warp out of there. It always made sense to me to be honest.

And again, all throughout ToAU, SE repeatedly said "when we're done with new content we'll work on the old". Every time a question about OG/RotZ/CoP came up, they said they'll get to it after ToAU. With all the massive changes, additions and new content added in ToAU SE didn't have time to focus on the old stuff, and they said that repeatedly. And now, they created an expansion that specifically lets them "fix" older problems, and are doing exactly as they promised and changing older inconveniences to make it easier for all players...and people are still bitching?

The reason WotG seems so "light" in content is because they're using it to fix everything in the game, and not just focusing on it like they did with ToAU. Which is exactly what they said they would do.

[Armando]

The reason WotG seems so "light" in content is because they're using it to fix everything in the game, and not just focusing on it like they did with ToAU. Which is exactly what they said they would do.

That and the fact that they have to make content for all 3 nations. It's not like CoP and ToAU (and to a certain point, RoZ) where you have 1 main town and 1 central plot to follow.

[Vyuru]

The whole "it should have been there to begin with" argument is flawed anyway.

Hardly.

Nomad moogles SHOULD have been in Selbina back when the Dunes was heavily used, not once it had died into relative oblivion. Yes, Level Sync brought some life back to the Dunes, but nothing like it's former days and frankly alot of Lvl Sync parties have also gone elsewhere, Buburimu/Shrakami/Korroloka/WoTG/places I don't even know of. Even at the height of the low leveling frenzy that Lvl Sync introduced, these zones were not as heavily used as they once were back when people were asking for nomad moogles in Mhaura/Selbina.

An older change, the ability to choose which server that you start on, should have been in the game from the start to begin with.

This treasure/coffer change, really should have been made back when people were competing for coffers for AF. Now I almost have to ask what is the point in making the change? From what I have seen most people don't have any problems getting their AF or RSE. If anything I'd expect this to promote parties farming keys and popping chests for gil now that the respawn rates will be tweaked.

And while I agree that a MMORPG is always growing and expanding, and hopefully it's never too late to add a change or fix something, I'm not seeing the benefits here. Well, as much I should say. It'll be nice for the people doing it now, but it would've been better earlier. And I'm not really holding it against them either for not doing it sooner. I don't know how big their fixit team is, I don't know how they run things, and there are things that needed to be adjusted or changed before some of these changes could have come about. Obviously Astral Rings needed to be obtained elsewhere before they could alter chest/coffer respawn times in Castle Oztraja, but then too that change eliminated most, if not all, of the lockpicking Thfs there.

It hardly means that I think SE fails just because I'm not singing SE's praise for this update here. This is just one part of the update that I'm going "meh" on.

[Truece]

Originally Posted by Ziero

They wanted you to rough it to your exp camps, to walk or choco and get there the hard way. They wanted you to have to go through the zones and see their scenery and dodge their aggro mobs to get where you needed to. And the reward for finishing up in a certain area was being able to warp out of there. It always made sense to me to be honest.

I think SE did a great job of making Vana'diel seem vast. I remember the first few weeks (maybe months) in the game where it seemed to take forever to walk across certain zones (hello there Meriphitaud Mountains!) and the excitement that I felt when I entered a zone for the first time (zOMG wtf is a goobbue?!).

Then, after I had a chance to visit these zones more and more often, traveling across them started to become a chore. I was growing up, maturing if you will. Now, it seems that SE is allowing the game to mature as well.

Sure new players will still (hopefully) feel the same excitement/bewilderment that I felt as they adventure across the world for the first time, but there is no reason that EVERY trip from point A to point B should take a long time. These small changes are allowing people to actually play more the game. While any one of these changes seems fairly minor, together, they have a great impact and make the game more enjoyable for new and old players alike.

[Raydeus]

Originally Posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten

If I may be so bold, you are hardly at Armando's level.

Whoah.

I know I should just ignore you (the same way one ignores the crazy person mumbling nonsense in the subway) but I'm kinda curious.

What exactly are the voices talking about this time?

[Clever Ninja]

Originally Posted by Raydeus

Whoah.

I know I should just ignore you (the same way one ignores the crazy person mumbling nonsense in the subway) but I'm kinda curious.

What exactly are the voices talking about this time?

'

Nothing to see here guys, ignore the troll. Leave it alone under its bridge.

[Armando]

Whoops, I had missed this post entirely.

Originally Posted by Raydeus

Don't worry, both of you will get to the point where I am soon enough.

Not really. I've been playing since 2004. If I was going to become disgruntled with the state of the game it would've happened already.

Do you honestly believe they really can't do both?

You must think making expansions and its post-release content is a walk in the park, huh? Guess they make us wait a year between expansions just to build up the tension.

Pretty sure the devs stated in one of the interviews that they had their hands full with expansion content and that they'd start implementing stuff people kept requesting when they got that out of the way. You can't really expect them to work on adding dozens of zones, quests, NPCs, jobs, armor types, missions, endgame activities, and battlefield types (while making sure the game doesn't break because of these additions) while also implementing every minor/convenience-related petition the players ask for. Sure, a lot of this shit is probably easy to implement but many other things such as adding PvP, NPC fellows, the two-handed weapon update, the TP floor change, chocobo raising/racing and Level Sync are not (and it's not like they hadn't done other convenience/non-expansion updates before, which goes to show that the list of non-expansion things to add really is long.)

[Ziero]

Originally Posted by Armando

That and the fact that they have to make content for all 3 nations. It's not like CoP and ToAU (and to a certain point, RoZ) where you have 1 main town and 1 central plot to follow.

Oh believe me, I'm well aware of that. It's why I put light in quotations, because I don't feel that way. There's more people in more past zones then there are in CoP or RotZ zones on average. Campaign in and of itself is huge. And the missions and quests are all one long chain, with optional parts. But added together there's just as many, if not more, fights so far then in ToAU or RotZ. And the story itself is split into 4 paths, as opposed to the simple linearness of previous expansions. On top of that there's Campaign Ops, Stronghold invasions, numerous pop NMs and even new HNMs, one of which leads to a new form of BC fighting. Put despite that, and the fact it's not finished yet, most people still see WotG as being "light" on content.

Originally Posted by Vyuru

Hardly.

Nomad moogles SHOULD have been in Selbina back when the Dunes was heavily used, ...*snip*...

It hardly means that I think SE fails just because I'm not singing SE's praise for this update here. This is just one part of the update that I'm going "meh" on.

While I share your "meh"ness towards this info, I do it for completely different reasons. No, nomad moogles shouldn't have been in the game when people most used the Dunes. At that point there wasn't even such a thing as Nomad moogles, but that's besides the point. Back then, the dunes and other such areas were supposed to be a challenge to get to and survive in. Travel was hard and dangerous and being away from "home" for such an extended amount of time was part of the experiance. It was a big thing to get to the dunes for most players, and an even bigger thing to spend a few days there. And to be pretty blunt, everyone I know still goes to the dunes mainly for 10-20, usually soloing in Kon while lfg. While they may not be as highly packed as way back when, they're still damn crowded.

And if they lowered repop times on coffers when they were most popular, it would have been when they added AFs. But even then there wasn't as big of a need and the crowds died die in time. And since then there has always been a steady amount of people hunting and popping coffers. But before when this was a "rite of passage" or something nowadays it's just not that hard.

Which is one of the main points of changing these things now, most of these low level situations just aren't as difficult or impressive as they used to be, so there's no need to maintain an artificial difficulty to these now simple tasks. That and the fact that during ToAU they were too focused on other things to go back and change stuff like this.

Originally Posted by Truece

I think SE did a great job of making Vana'diel seem vast. I remember the first few weeks (maybe months) in the game where it seemed to take forever to walk across certain zones (hello there Meriphitaud Mountains!) and the excitement that I felt when I entered a zone for the first time (zOMG wtf is a goobbue?!).

Then, after I had a chance to visit these zones more and more often, traveling across them started to become a chore. I was growing up, maturing if you will. Now, it seems that SE is allowing the game to mature as well.

Sure new players will still (hopefully) feel the same excitement/bewilderment that I felt as they adventure across the world for the first time, but there is no reason that EVERY trip from point A to point B should take a long time. These small changes are allowing people to actually play more the game. While any one of these changes seems fairly minor, together, they have a great impact and make the game more enjoyable for new and old players alike.

I still find Gustaberg to be one of my favorite zones because of how "vast" it is. Especially for a starter zone, it's massive and expansive and the way it's set up just makes it seem bigger still. And the fact that you had to run through both zones made it even more of an ordeal. I'm still miffed that they took one of the easiest to defend zones and put a giant ramp in the middle of it. If they set up a fort at the bridge...on both parts of N Gusta, no turtle would ever get across the river.

[Malacite]

Originally Posted by Clever Ninja

Nothing to see here guys, ignore the troll. Leave it alone under its bridge.

But now I'm curious!

[TheGrandMom]

Originally Posted by Kailea

... is that it's asinine ( hey I used a big word ^.^ kind of....) to say "oh SE sucks/fails" when all they are doing, is fixing old things, and adding new things -,- even though its "to late". Its never to late as long as its within the games life sapn.

Give yourself a pat on the back because you didn't put an extra "S" in there either! So many people do. But yes, that make more sense and I can agree. Its never too late to tweak a game but its unfortunate that it took so long.

Originally Posted by Ziero

They wanted you to rough it to your exp camps, to walk or choco and get there the hard way.

OMG getting to the dunes when I didn't even know where the f**k it was and I was level 10 was AWESOME SHIT! Does it aggro, if it does what to, how much farther, am I going the right way, OMG this shortcut is a deadend this map sucks, gdi I'm dead gotta try again.... It not only gives you fond memories and a sense of accomplishment but you are actually learning too. You are finding out that goblins are sight aggro and you can get by them as long as they don't see you, (if you use a controller) when the ground quakes you might want to GET THE HELL OUT OF THERE, so this is a gate crystal, how far do I have to be away from that orc and not get aggro, and so much more. Yes when we are "older" and more jaded in game, we'd rather have the convienence of being able to get there quick because we've seen it all and we think we know it all but its not fair for the newer players.

Originally Posted by Vyuru

Hardly.

Nomad moogles SHOULD have been in Selbina back when the Dunes was heavily used, not once it had died into relative oblivion. Yes, Level Sync brought some life back to the Dunes, but nothing like it's former days and frankly alot of Lvl Sync parties have also gone elsewhere, Buburimu/Shrakami/Korroloka/WoTG/places I don't even know of. Even at the height of the low leveling frenzy that Lvl Sync introduced, these zones were not as heavily used as they once were back when people were asking for nomad moogles in Mhaura/Selbina.

An older change, the ability to choose which server that you start on, should have been in the game from the start to begin with.

This treasure/coffer change, really should have been made back when people were competing for coffers for AF. Now I almost have to ask what is the point in making the change? From what I have seen most people don't have any problems getting their AF or RSE. If anything I'd expect this to promote parties farming keys and popping chests for gil now that the respawn rates will be tweaked.

And while I agree that a MMORPG is always growing and expanding, and hopefully it's never too late to add a change or fix something, I'm not seeing the benefits here. Well, as much I should say. It'll be nice for the people doing it now, but it would've been better earlier. And I'm not really holding it against them either for not doing it sooner. I don't know how big their fixit team is, I don't know how they run things, and there are things that needed to be adjusted or changed before some of these changes could have come about. Obviously Astral Rings needed to be obtained elsewhere before they could alter chest/coffer respawn times in Castle Oztraja, but then too that change eliminated most, if not all, of the lockpicking Thfs there.

It hardly means that I think SE fails just because I'm not singing SE's praise for this update here. This is just one part of the update that I'm going "meh" on.

All this and a bag of chips!