[Yellow Mage]

Credit to Elmer the Pointy for crediting Suteki the Taru from ConnectOn! of Japan.

tl;dr: Try wearing the Torque that matches your Virtue Weapon to lock AV's Two-Hours. You noobs.



. . . okay, that last part was said with irony, because look at which job would get stuck with which Torque (alphabetical order by Virtue):

Faith: MNK/NIN
Fortitude: WAR/DRK
Hope: BRD/SMN/wtfPUP
Justice: RDM/THF/PLD
Temperance: BST/RNG
Love: SAM/DRG
Prudence: WHM/BLM

As may be apparent, hardly any of them "fit" at all, at least in terms of which torques each job would typically go for, if any at all.

Sure, Faith is a perfect fit for MNKs, and lolAnyNINThatTriesToLockAV's2HourByBlowingThemselv esUp.

But honestly ask yourself, how many WARs do you think have the Fortitude Torque, versus how many PLDs you think have it (and show me a DRK that has one and I'll show you a guy with multiple 75s anyway).

Hope . . . I'm not touching that one.

Justice is just as bad: how many Thieves do you see pining over a Justice Torque? Now a Love Torque? That's what I thought.

I almost skipped Temperance. Really, while the Torque is a perfect fit for BSTs, be honest with me: how many Endgame linkshells do you know with BSTs in them that are not all-pet shells anyway? . . . Otherwise, RNGs can *technically* use Axes, I guess . . . their Archery is kind of in another Virtue, though (Hope).

Love Torque at least makes some sense for the jobs that have the Love Halberd: Polearm-using Samurai are out there, somewhere.

Prudence has Club Skill for WHMs, INT for the BLMs, and Great Sword for the DRKs that have this already over all the WHMs and BLMs that do, most likely.



HOWEVER!

Maybe that is exactly why this theory has merit: few of the jobs that are supposed to use the torques that match their weapons actually have reason to go after them, and even in the article it was said this was only noticed when switching from a Love DRG locking Call Wyvern versus a DRG without a Love Torque that failed on the first try. This is indeed so crazy that it just! Might! WORK!



. . . Good luck getting enough people to care enough about AV nowadays to try for torques that are otherwise inventory +1 for them.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

In before someone cites lolMap and says virtue weapons don't work

Of course, he dismissed everything he thought didn't work and was all lolDRG... but they banzored him so let's see if someone can beat AV for real now.

I think the idea has merit. Perhaps who the virtue weapons went to were meant to throw players off the trail.

BTW, me wants Temperance Axe for meh BST, someone gimmie. Silly WAR no can has it anyway.

Actually, I was baffled at RNG getting that one myself, I was always like "Uh... I can't have that axe and use Virtue Stones because of, you know, the ammo my bow needs and all."

[Rodin]

YouTube

YouTube

Don't see them using the weapon/torque combos. And that's SE's official "hint" video.

The only thing I noticed that was weird out of this video, is that the alliance fighting AV almost simultaneously used their 2hrs after AV used his 2hr animation.

[Taskmage]

I would be pretty surprised if wearing virtue torques wasn't tested around the same time virtue weapons were tried, but only pretty surprised. Seems worth testing. You'd really only need a couple prudence and a justice to make the fight possible.

It would be pretty impossible to tell if SE was using the just the torques from the video.

[Elmer the Pointy]

Originally Posted by Rodin

Don't see them using the weapon/torque combos. And that's SE's official "hint" video.

The only thing I noticed that was weird out of this video, is that the alliance fighting AV almost simultaneously used their 2hrs after AV used his 2hr animation.

Just to clarify, the theory is that matching up the torques/jobs appropriately is what gives you success when trying to seal 2hrs. The Jailer Weapons simply indicate which job should wear what named torque, by virtue of which jobs are able to equip them. Apparently, the weapons themselves are not needed in the fight itself.

[eticket109]

in before someone mentions the bann... damn

ok well... in before someone tries to refute it with the vid... damn

Honestly this makes perfect sense knowing SE, but like the OP says, let's see someone bother to test it.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

I've always kinda thought the seven deadly sins would play into it, well, their jailed counterparts, anyway. Didn't really consider how which weapon would point to which torque, though.

Really, why go to all the effort to reference this stuff in sea otherwise? Everything they did in sky, even the drops to a certain extent, were consistent with what Byakko, Suzaku, Seiryu and Genbu represented. And there's Kirin in the middle of them all, like he's supposed to be.

Perhaps we should be referencing religion and myth more often for more than just thematic fluff.

[Feenicks]

You know what? You should go post this on the BG forums. They're the people who will actually get the people together to go after AV after all, and they're such nice people that I'm 100% sure your idea will be taken with credence and dignity.

EDIT: I just noticed that this idea is actually on BG already and bizarrely the mods have allowed the topic to live for now. I really don't like to be pessimistic but these things tend to evolve into a massive ideas thread full of all sorts of weird and wild ideas which never, ever end up getting tested because no LS can really be arsed to try.

[Sabaron]

Originally Posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten

In before

Originally Posted by eticket109

in before

Can we please not pick up the mannerisms of the retards that troll BG? Pretty please?


Without adding another post, I never said BG started In befores... I simply meant that "In befores" are liberally sprinkled throughout their threads like too much pepper on your apple pie.
------------------

As for the theory itself, theory is just theory without testing. What is the point of discussing an untested theory? To start a random meaningless "nuh uh", "yes huh" war between people who have no real basis for their opinions? Just test it and either discard it or extol it. Obviously, posting it for expository reasons (i.e. getting people to test it) is admirable, but discussing it is rather pointless unless your discussion is about strategy.

Originally Posted by Feenicks

You know what? You should go post this on the BG forums.

The BG thread will be useless within minutes as every idiot, his mom, brother, sisters, and three cousins from Brazil who don't even play FFXI will have to make some retarded post... Let's look at a sample:

• Close the pool. - Beautiful
  
• POOL IS CLOSED. - Most exquisite
  
• I'd swear it was tried already before. - Well-supported ideas.
  
• I don't want to believe it yet, but it's worth testing. - Not flaming but obviously insightful.
  
• Interesting... - Indeed.
  
• It has been suggested and tried... sort of. - That's all the proof I need!
  
• Enjoy your wiping to AV. - Discouragement in advance! Exemplary!
  
• I've never heard anything about the torque thing. - Thus the reason for the thread!
  
• I am very much looking forward to seeing what happens. - Insightful
  
• this seriously has never been tested before? - Excellent question!
  
• Jesus Fucking Christ Close the Pool for Epic. Just wanted to say it. - Say it you did!
  

That's two pages (of 5)... I'm now bored. By reading the list above, you have essentially read basic permutations of everything on the thread (except the OP) and it is no longer necessary to visit BG.

Prediction: The test, by the way, will appear on page 24 of 58 and you will not be able to find it within 16 minutes of it's original post.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Originally Posted by Sabaron

Can we please not pick up the mannerisms of the retards that troll BG? Pretty please?

------------------

As for the theory itself, theory is just theory without testing. What is the point of discussing an untested theory? To start a random meaningless "nuh uh", "yes huh" war between people who have no real basis for their opinions? Just test it and either discard it or extol it. Obviously, posting it for expository reasons (i.e. getting people to test it) is admirable, but discussing it is rather pointless unless your discussion is about strategy.

So "in before" is just stuff retards from BG do, but coming in here with comments like "pointless" or "meaningless" (pretty much something Murphie used to do) isn't trolling at all?

What are you adding here?

Pretty much nothing.

Getting the idea out there is pretty much the entire point. When people are running around saying that the virtue weapons are pointless, isn't that to sort of thinking that's preventing us from finding the answers?

Why do RNG and BST get Temperance Axe and WAR doesn't? We've been asking that one forever, but never in the context of fighting AV as much as WARs just bitching about the fact they can't equip it.

Why would you give Temperance to RNG when it is completely useless to RNG? If I want to make full use of that Axe, I have to displace my arrows or bullets.

Its a strange design, the only job that can use it well is BST, without any loss of functionality. But why would they want RNG to lose thier specialization? Am I supposed to EES a Virtue Stone at AV when he does it?

Perhaps not, but maybe its pointing to another answer.

And these are questions we should be asking.

[Sabaron]

Originally Posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten

What are you adding here?

Attempting to steer the conversation in a useful or productive direction:

Originally Posted by Me

, but discussing it is rather pointless unless your discussion is about strategy.

I will admit, freely, that the "in before" thing was simply a flippant comment, but it is one of the things that "grinds my gears" about BG...

"In before" is simply an expression one prefixes a (generally thought to be) commonly held stupid idea in an attempt to pre-insult the uneducated or uninformed (basically, so that 15 pages later, the person can say "I told you so" and feel a sense of self-worth for having predicted the response before anyone made it). It conjures imagery of pointless elitism. When Feenicks mentioned posting on BG, I simply decided to give the most powerful reason why such things are not necessary. Someone nice (like Yellow Mage in this particular instance) will conveniently repost it and it's eventual test resutl here without all of the filler nonsense.

Also, unfortunately, I cannot answer any of your questions since they would be intended for Square Enix, and in most cases in-game testing cannot produce any result. Of course, asking SE, will most likely produce only cryptic responses, so my question is, how do your questions contribute to the development of the strategy?

[ShepardG]

Allakhazam.com: Final Fantasy XI: End Game Forum

This is a bit different but still along the same lines. I can't believe people haven't tried either of these theory's yet. people must not want ninurta's sash....or that chakram that's pimp. If I was in your shell YM I'd be all for it!

[kai_samoht]

I Personally don't have sea access and such haven't tried AV, but this popped into my mind reading this. All this talk about virtue torques and weapons, I'm just wondering if you use the right weapon and torque for the job if it would totally lock AV, or whatever the premise is for locking the 2HR's. I just thought this would be interesting to think about, but obviously someone will have to test it, and who knows if anyone ever will. Well, that's just my thought's, feel free to pick me apart as need be. Haha!

[Feba]

the trick to defeating AV is to not kill it. Just put the controller down and go outside.


You won't get a fancy sash, but you'll sure show him who's boss.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Originally Posted by Sabaron

Also, unfortunately, I cannot answer any of your questions since they would be intended for Square Enix, and in most cases in-game testing cannot produce any result. Of course, asking SE, will most likely produce only cryptic responses, so my question is, how do your questions contribute to the development of the strategy?

Well, you clearly have no questions or ideas, so you could kindly stop trolling the topic? You're doing exactly what you're blasting BG posters for.

Again, I'll point out sky. In sky we got drops from demis like "gem of the west" and when we later used them in conjunction with and Autumnstone at a spawn point in the west of Tu'lia, we get Byakko - the Guardian of the West, Autumn and the elment of Wood (hey don't look at me, they call it an element in Chinese myth).

And here's a shock... he drops a divine log. Wood.

Sky is pretty rich in this particular theme. People no doubt pieced most of this together through DATmining, but still, it took a knowledge of Chinese myth and what those guardians represented to figure out where these drops would be applied, not random experiementation. Once you got all four seals, had you explored sky, there was little question in what you did with them and what it popped.

And here's a tidbit from wiki:

In Eastern Asian mythological cosmology, the Shijin (also spelled Shishin; called the Ssu Ling or Si Ling in China) are 4 guardian beasts that guard the 4 cardinal directions (North, South, East, West). The 4 of them are associated with 4 of the 5 elements of Chinese philosophy (Metal, Wood, Water, Fire, Earth). There is a 5th direction occasionally added (Center) and a 5th guardian beast. Chinese philosophy includes this guardian, but Japanese usually does not. They are independent of the Chinese Zodiac Animals and they each rule a quadrant of the night sky. They evidently originated during the Warring States Period of Chinese history (400s BCE- 221 BCE) and were frequently painted on the walls of tombs to ward off evil spirits. The Shijin have frequently been used in Animé programs (Fushigi Yugi, Yu Yu Hakusho, Samurai Deeper Kyo, and Digimon) as well as some other video games, most notably SaGa 1 (1989/1990, sold in the United States as Final Fantasy Legend, published by Square).

Now, I can't help but point out there's a bit of symmetry in FFXI, its there from the start, so why would it not be there in the end? Especially in a zone we have to earn access to? Sky played to Chinese myth and philosophy and Sea seems to play things more biblical.

And, just to point out, we've heard five of these deadly sins referenced in Sky, particularly in the AA fight and five of them related directly to the races of Vana'diel. The Ark Angles also have made an appearance in the Chamber of Eventide, a sea cutscene.

Additionally, all five races are associated with one of the five mothercrystals. There was a quest we had to do for this.

So here's another spin on the existing theory.

Line up the race's "sin" with its corresponding "virtue" weapon/torque in a job that can use it. Each race would have its "light" from a corresponding mothercrystal. For the remaining virtues, just line up the jobs the virtue weapons point to torques to.

I could be wrong. Its all wild speculation, but speculation is fun.

And that's the point. Speculation is fun. Testing, for some of us is fun.

If that's not fun for you, then this topic isn't for you - be quiet and don't participate.