lv 75 h2h choice - Final Fantasy XI :: Dreams in Vana'diel :: Community

Brayden · 03-07-2008, 08:09 AM

Greetings,

My wife has mnk as 75 and is a very casual player (no sky, sea, hmn stuff). That being said, I will not be asking about Destoryers because yes, those are arguably the best thing for mnks to have.

Currently she using Vishnu's, which she likes for the 0 delay, but Im wondering if there isnt something out there that would bring a greater return. She uses mnk mostly for meriting, and her other 75 job is blm. No mnk merits currently. I was looking at Master Casters baghs for her, she's from Windhurst so the +10 atk would be nice. But then I started to remember TM Hooks+1 and i think those have similar stats and are useable at a lower lvl range. Would either of those be a better choice than Vishnus?

Sabaron · 03-07-2008, 08:13 AM

If you've got money, you can go for Hades' Sainti--Damage-wise, they're the highest output next to Destroyers you can get. Watch out for the +Enmity though, it can make you an MP drag.

It's both fun and profitable to get Destroyers--I would recommend doing Copycat until you run out of seals or get the Destroyers. It's like 25% for each of the Rare/Ex weapons or possibly slightly less, but I don't recall not getting an R/E drop when we ran this. With Rare/Ex drops, remember, if you don't want Destroyer's let the MNK players that are helping you have first dibs and then any "future" MNKs. Copycat is relatively easy compared to Double Dragonian--I've never attempted Royale Ramble (Cardians). Copycat is the consensus on the easiest way to obtain them, so there's probably a reason for that. If you like dicey fights and are up for a challenge though, run DD a time or two.

It doesn't matter if she's just a casual player. Everyone has KS, and I'm sure as a BLM she has quite a few (if she ever solos).

Callisto · 03-07-2008, 08:46 AM

Honestly the easiest way to get Destroyers is to just camp outside of the BC when you know that a BLM group is doing a run, most people just toss theirs and would be willing to give you a pair for free if they drop.

Aside from that, I'd recommend the TM Hooks+1/2 or Wagh Baghnakhs for the time being, the damage on Hades Sainti are very nice, but that's a boatload of emnity in one slot, and MNK already has trouble with pulling hate if they want to sub WAR for better DD output.

Armando · 03-07-2008, 08:50 AM

Vishnu's ain't too good. You need to calculate a weapon's DPS to judge it objectively. Things like high DMG or low Delay can be very misleading.

It basically comes down to Hades or Wagh. Personally I'd buy Wagh just because they're dirt cheap, don't have the +7 Enmity (which is quite a chunk...) and should perform almost identical to Hades so long as she doesn't stay above 100 TP much time.

Callisto · 03-07-2008, 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by Armando

Vishnu's ain't too good. You need to calculate a weapon's DPS to judge it objectively. Things like high DMG or low Delay can be very misleading.

It basically comes down to Hades or Wagh. Personally I'd buy Wagh just because they're dirt cheap, don't have the +7 Enmity (which is quite a chunk...) and should perform almost identical to Hades so long as she doesn't stay above 100 TP much time.

My understanding of H2H is weak compared to other parts of the game, but the general rule I've come to understand is basically Cesti = Turds...is that far off from correct?

Armando · 03-07-2008, 09:05 AM

I don't know, I've never inspected optimal H2H weapon progression very closely. But from comparing weapons for lower level jobs, Baghnakhs are generally best. Knuckles, Claws, Patas, Hooks all tend to try to seduce you with their high DMG but in reality they have sub-par DPS because of their absurd Delays, and many Cesti do the exact same thing backwards, trying to lure you with low Delays when their DMGs are too low for a good DPS. 'Course it doesn't really matter since in practice you get plenty of weapons (generally non-crafted) that break the rules and end up being better than the rest at that level range despite belonging to a sub-type that generally sucks.

At 75, without merits, the DPS for the weapons are as such:
Destroyers: 17.58 DPS (+6% crit rate)
Hades: 17.43 DPS (+7 Enmity, +7 Accuracy, +7 Subtle Blow, +7 Evasion)
Wagh: 17.00 DPS (+14 Attack, +5 Accuracy) @ TP <100

Everything else has worse DPS and unimpressive +stats to boot.

H2H DPS is absurd by the way. Joyeuse is omgwtfpwn and its DPS is 14.06 when factoring in multi-hits.

Callisto · 03-07-2008, 09:19 AM

Originally Posted by Armando

H2H DPS is absurd by the way. Joyeuse is omgwtfpwn and its DPS is 14.06 when factoring in multi-hits.

I always figured this is intentional and MNK was intended to be a DoT job, to balance the fact that you aren't likely to see many MNKs busting out 2k Asuran Fists in meripo and such(old-school KRT parties excluded).

Armando · 03-07-2008, 09:23 AM

I'm sure it is, and you're right in that there's other factors that come into play. I'm just sayin'. Most weapons don't exceed 11.50 DPS on their own (i.e. non-dual wielded.) Seeing DPS's of 17 and up is pretty impressive.

Callisto · 03-07-2008, 09:48 AM

The great part is that it makes MNK an absolute freaking monster with /DNC, since they deal plenty of damage while holding TP, I've seen friends easily solo chain VTs as MNK/DNC, it's kind of scary actually, lol.

Malacite · 03-07-2008, 03:53 PM

You sure Vishnu is bad? I'm about halfway to 66 and just bought a pair to replace my TM Hooks +1. I know Wagh is the 3rd best in the game (2nd to Destroyers which is 2nd to Spharai) but with Vishnu's you still get a decent damage boost (+7) and no delay for 150 a fist.

Armando · 03-07-2008, 05:32 PM

I meant to say Vishnu's are bad at 75, not bad at the level at which you can get them. At 75 they have a DPS of 16.00 and only +4 Acc, +2 DEX, +2 STR. That's a big gap in DPS compared to Waghs, and Waghs also have +14 Attack.

Quote:

The great part is that it makes MNK an absolute freaking monster with /DNC, since they deal plenty of damage while holding TP, I've seen friends easily solo chain VTs as MNK/DNC, it's kind of scary actually, lol.

Sounds epic.

Malacite · 03-07-2008, 06:51 PM

> . > IMO SAM/DNC with Soboro is far more epic.

Are you positive Wagh are that much higher? It's 2 more base DMG, 1 more accuracy and 13 more attack for 60 more delay. Not sure how TP gain factors in here though since it's 3.5% vs 4%. However it's fairly obvious that Wagh will hit a lot harder on WS.

Armando · 03-07-2008, 07:04 PM

Quote:

It's 2 more base DMG, 1 more accuracy and 13 more attack for 60 more delay.

30 more Delay, since DPS is figured per-hand. Where are you getting that "2 more base DMG?" Wagh Baghnakhs are +18 DMG with latent active, +13 when it's not. Vishnu's are +7. That's 11 more DMG with the latent active for 30 more Delay.

Quote:

Not sure how TP gain factors in here though since it's 3.5% vs 4%

It'd be 4.7 TP/2.5 secs (150 Delay) vs 5.0/3 secs (180 Delay.)

Malacite · 03-07-2008, 08:12 PM

Originally Posted by Armando

Where are you getting that "2 more base DMG?"

Not really sure myself. Maybe I was on crack at the time? I've been spacing out all day ><

Wiki has Wagh listed as 4% and Vishnu at 3.5%

Armando · 03-07-2008, 08:27 PM

Not sure what the heck's up with that really. But I'm quite sure you just take your base H2H Delay, add the weapon Delay, halve it, and run that through the TP formulas.

If they got 3.5 and 4 TP per hit they'd be really slow at getting TP - it'd take 29 hits with Visnu's Cesti to get 100 TP, and that'd take 72.5 secs with perfect accuracy, whereas on average, most weapons take 60-64 secs.