Counter Point

[Zeraze]

does counter activate on hits taken against nin shadows? if so, counter stance and a good counter build might be devastating you could literally have counterstance up all the time. Any screw ups with the shadows would probably mean a quick death, but with subtle blow the mob wont be gaining tremendous tp. i realize you would probably pull tons of hate but as long as you are positioned correctly (in terms of sata) and aren't really taking any hits because of utse does it really matter?

I envision a counter set up with vampirc claws and a little mind gear to make sure the effect goes off on a somewhat regular basis.

by the by i am still about two weeks out from returning so i really don't have anything better to do than to posit these crazy combos and set ups thanks guys

[arkaine23]

Counter only activates after shadows and evasion check. It only works on a successful mob hit. Your counter rate is a fixed % activation from trait +gear, + job trait if using counterstance. On a potential proc of counter, there is then an accuracy check. If you hit, the counter occurs. If you miss, the mob hits you and you are none the wiser that you almost countered.

Thus counter works better when you have high accuracy on your target. You cannot counter mob TP moves, ranged attacks, magic, or AOEs. So counterstancing can be risky, especially if you /WAR and have no shadows. Certain mob TP moves can floor you when you have practically 0 defense from counterstance, like Sickle Slash for instance, or some multi-hit moves which can devastate you like Rushing Drub, Vorpal Blade, etc.

However, with shadows, counterstance is very good. Shadows provide the bulk of your protection, while high counter rate makes it much easier to recast your shadows for the few seconds you become vulnerable. For this reason, a MNK/NIN can build for counter+ and evasion+ and do very well soloing. Between shadows, high evasion, and counters, not much damage gets through to the MNK.


The same is true for MNK/WAR, but a MNK/WAR has to worry much more about the stray hits his evasion and counters miss and mob TP moves. Sometimes Counterstance can really help reduce damage when you take hate for a short time. Other times it can cause you to take significantly more damage or die. You'll have to get a feel for which mobs its ok to counterstance on based on their TP moves and your accuracy. In some cases it can be better to just swap into defensive gear and Defender until hate is back on the tank.


Base counter rate is believed to be 15%. +counter adds 1% per +integer. Counterstance triples the counter rate and removes all defense except that granted by vitality. Futhermore counter rate is reduced by your relative accuracy... ie a 45% counter rate (no counter gear, counterstance active), would be effectively reduced by say 85% accuracy vs your target. 1st the 45% chance to counter would be checked, and if successful, then the accuracy check would occur. Passing both checks would proc a counterattack.

Going on this commonly accepted theory, my counter rate is 23% without counterstance, 30% if my hp are low enough to activate latent effect gear, 69% when counterstanced, and 90% when counterstanced and hp sufficiently low to activate latent gear.

[Malacite]

That would make an amazing update if MNK could counter WS...

I mean, SAM can Third-Eye Multi-hit WS, and shadows absorb anything... so why can't an elite martial artist dodge a series of blows? They could make it a trait for high level monks, or better yet make it usable with /MNK to make it a more attractive sub job option. This would also help curb the /NIN craze.

[arkaine23]

Would be nice. Right now our best defense against a multi-hit WS aside from ninja shadows, is Dodge + all the +evasion skill and +evasion gear we can muster, mixed with a little Physical damage -%.

[Malacite]

I really hope SE increases guard skill up and activation rate. MNK already has all the tools it needs, they just need some tweaking.