When to stop subbing drg?

[Spinnthrift]

There are some exp camps where it is more benefitial to have counterstance on all the time, so the DEF lost by berserk isn't an issue then. As far as it goes...I barely take more damage with berserk on than when I do without it. I get smacked for 180+ a hit on VTs without berserk or counterstance up. I put both up and it goes up to 220 and my DEF is a solid 34...

Utterly, as there are also camps where /Nin is preferable, and probably a few where /Drg is.

Hence why I'm saying, and standing by the statement that:

"There isn't a specific time to stop subbing Dragoon, there is only ideal times to sub War, Nin, Drg, etc as the situation/gear/camp/party/anything merits."

I love the idea of a full Haste build Mnk/Drg, but I also appreciate when other subs are warranted - and mandatory. And props to 34 Def.. that rawks.

[Tirrock]

I can't really argue that too much. Only that I can't think of a situation where one jump would be better than double attack/berserk/provoke/defender. But assuming people weigh the pros and cons like you suggested, they'd likely come to that same conclusion.

I've heard from many people that haste gear caps at 25%, which is possible to hit as MNK without /DRG. 5% from turban, 12% from black belt, 5% from byakko shorts, 3% from fuma...

Not that many MNK would even hit that. (Fuma's aren't too hot compared to dune boots even. Not to mention the difficulty in getting black belt and byakko's pants.) I'm just tossing that out there.

[Spinnthrift]

As far as I can tell, it's nice early on if you have very snacky items - and nice later on, when you get the Acc Up bonus and High Jump for hate shedding.

I know for certain is has merit, certainly not in every situation... but more than just a casual dismissal though.

If I recall correctly, /Drg has slightly higher Vit and Mnd from my last stat calcuator checks, though I could be very much mistaken - perhaps worth using in a Chi Blast boost, kinda hybrid scenario...

To be honest - I think it's best used at that crossover where 10 acc makes or breaks consistency... but those moments are definately due to build/gear selection...

Either that, or in level capped spots like Phominua/Riverne, where you've got an O. Kote/Fuma/Brown Belt/Wyvern Mantle/Wyvern Earring setup and are trying to put out a lot of damage over a longer duration than Berserk offers, and with a higher degree of survivability, but don't want to sacrifice attack for Utsusemi, and can make use of the marginally faster TP gain at that level.

Imagine a slightly merited Monk in a 40 capped area, with the full /Drg enhancements.. would be fun at least.

[Lmnop]

Check out what Nny says here about haste caps... you'll see a link to a blue gartr page with his testing. 70% delay cap from haste, figuring in all haste effects, stacking additively. Maybe I missed it, but I'm pretty sure there isn't a limit just from gear alone.

[Tirrock]

I was about to complain about not being able to open up BG forums...but it randomly let me through this time. I've got some reading to do, thanks for the indirect link.

[Bouncer]

See... problem is... you cant really say you own at a sub when your using Meat while everyone else is using sushi. Im prety sure that was the case when the KRT parser was taken. Was in a party with a Mnk/war and I came as War/Nin in Caedarva Mire. Mnk/war (mithra) ate Sushi and I (Hume) ate Sis Kebabi. We both had about same equips except mithra has Str bracelets and Rasetsu hakama (pants), and I had O. Kotes and Melee hose.



I dont think we got hasted either, cause the healer was burning MP from Flys spaming AoE. Now that was almost dead even in dmg, if it wasnt for the fact that I had to cast Shadows to protect myself, most likely would have out dmg'ed the mnk/war, the mithra was using berserk whenever possible also. Its easy to say with this info I could have owned with /drg sub as well.

Atk Vs Sushi is very noticable if you can hit about the same rate. Even with Brutal Earring and Haste earring, Having each Mnk equiped with the same equips, food and having the same skill, I could easily see /war owning /drg. I may not be that good at math but it just dosent seem right to me at lv 75.

[Menelaus]

Stop debating this, go grab your shehie and /nin it up. You and the war will be tanking, the ninja or paladin will be throwing in the provoke to get the mob off the puller or the mages. Sell your wyvern earing and forget the brutal earing or whatever else you think will /assist you with your /drg or /war sub jobs.
RDM --> haste
BRD --> March + ATTK or ACC
you wont miss the double attack and you will be glad you brought your shadows. And pray that the war is good enough to spike the damage so you can recast.

MNK75/NIN37 <---- you can have this.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Stop debating this, go grab your shehie and /nin it up. You and the war will be tanking, the ninja or paladin will be throwing in the provoke to get the mob off the puller or the mages. Sell your wyvern earing and forget the brutal earing or whatever else you think will /assist you with your /drg or /war sub jobs.
RDM --> haste
BRD --> March + ATTK or ACC
you wont miss the double attack and you will be glad you brought your shadows. And pray that the war is good enough to spike the damage so you can recast.

MNK75/NIN37 <---- you can have this.

(1) Holy Necroposts, Batman.
(2) They can keep debating all they want, but they stopped almost a year ago. Soo... yeah, world of good you just did here.
(3) lolMNK/NIN - you can keep it. Plently of real MNKs to choose from these days.

[IfritnoItazura]

Stop debating this

You bumped a 10 month old thread to tell people to "stop debating"? lol.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

You bumped a 10 month old thread to tell people to "stop debating"? lol.

Maybe if he gets to Dallas in time, he can stop J.R. from getting shot.

[Malacite]

Maybe if he gets to Dallas in time, he can stop J.R. from getting shot.

Oh snap!


While on the subject, the best parties I've been in had MNK/WAR's as opposed to /NINs. If you've got a truly stellar party you should be dropping mobs before they can cause any real damage

[KoukiRyu]

Yayyyy I'm so happy to see people supporting MNK/WAR over MNK/NIN...I really don't like it. And yea, as a MNK myself, going to MNKburns, we were all MNK/WAR and we had wai more fun, and got excellent exp like that, screw MNK/NIN!

Unless I really -have- to use /NIN. D:<

[InuTrunks]

Damn, why is this thread back... WHY....

[DrivenTooFar]

Damn, why is this thread back... WHY....

Sometimes it's hard to let things go.

[Bouncer]

This only caught my eye...

forget the brutal earing

With those words, whatever crediablity you had (which you seem to have VERY little-none after reading that...) went in the toilet...among other things.

Please stand by while we point and laugh at you.

Then were Chi blasting you out.