CoPs: Don't make them harder than they have to be.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

CoPs are some of the most time consuming, challenging and also frustrating missions of FFXI. At present, there is no mission storyline as challenging and the frustration of organizing and completing CoPs is only matched by Assaults.

Rather than re-invent the wheel and since there are already some great CoP Walkthroughs out there, the intention of this thread is to highlight the frustrations with CoPs and give you a better idea how to prepare for them if you have yet to begin or are presently making progress through them.

By following these tips, you'll make things lots easier on yourself and others. Its not a garuntee for success, but if you're persistant and prepared, you can overcome all obstacles.

"You must be this job."

This is the first stopping point for a lot of people is the jobs people /shout for or expect when they go on a CoP mission. The honest truths are that any job can complete a CoP mission but also that having more jobs available certainly helps the group as well.

WAR, NIN, PLD, RNG, WHM, BLM, SMN, COR and BLU are jobs often requested for CoPs. Not having these jobs doesn't mean you can't go as your current job nor does it mean your job is a total hindrence to the group, but these other jobs have proven to perform rather well for the missions. That said, I'd like to state why such jobs are preferred.

• WAR - Obviously, the ability to DD and help tank BCs is extremely helpful.
• NIN - Same reason NINs are liked in EXP, they take minimal damage. Capable kiter as well.
• PLD - PLDs hold hate better than NINs for these fights and taking minimal damage is a plus.
• RNG - Wide scan is an asset to early missions & RNG gets spike damage earlier than most jobs.
• WHM - Gets highest tier cures and Raise/Reraise first.
• BLM - Like RNG, one of the first mage jobs that gets access to good spike damage.
• SMN - Again, Spike damage from Astral Flow and the ability to Carby kite.
• COR - First job to gain a potent refresh, DD + Buffs and possibly of resetting two hours and job abilities is a plus.
• BLU - BLU gains access to a lot of Stun magic, combined with DD spells and cures, they're good.
• SCH - Become very self-sufficient at 40 caps with Sublimation, Cure III, Regen II, Raise, Addendum: White and Black. Good BLM or WHM alternative and Accession spells help out, too.

Other jobs can work in CoPs, but admittedly, the conficts other jobs create in fast wins has much to do with the level caps hindering the abilities of the other jobs. This can be overcome with preparation, but neither can it be denied some jobs just get limited by the level caps.

While you may opt to not level the "preferred jobs" consider this - the more jobs you have available, the better your chances of getting into a pick up group or static for these missions are. Some of these jobs also are popular subjobs and also welcomed in BCNMs elsewhere in the game. It definately doesn't hurt to look into levelling some of them for BCNM and Mission purposes.

Other Job Stuff

Some people might not have time to level other jobs and that's understandable, most reasonable players will be willing to work with you. But try to avoid imposing your favorite job when you have other avaiable or imposing an odd subjob on the situation. Had a PUP/DRG go on an Ouryu run once (CoP 4-2). I'll say PUP works fine in most CoPs, but a PUP that can only jump once every minute and a half isn't doing much for the group. With missions, its best to go with the standards instead of trying to add some flavor. People just want the win, you know, not to be your guinea pig.

But sometime, even old standbys like WAR/MNK aren't as good, either. Just got out of a Promyvion Holla Run and our tank was WAR/MNK. Now, I'm not going to object to this combo in PTs terribly much, but in a BCNM fight. Its all about damage spikes and taking as little damage as possible. So yes, in this situation that /NIN sub some of us love to loathe would have been better.

Be Prepared

I really don't care what the situation is. I don't care if you've beaten a mission and are just helping. I don't care if you have the best possible setup for a sure win - come prepared or don't come at all. This means a lot more than just reading up on the NMs or BCNMs you'll be facing.

People who don't prepare drag a mission down, people who depend on other jobs to do all the work bring the group down. I don't care of you think that SMN is your ace-in-the-hole, sometimes things don't go as planned and you'll have to fight it out another way.

Try to have your cutscenes done in advance, this is really important because they often require travelling all over the main lands of Vana'diel. If there are NMs to get a CS, be sure to do them with your group while you can. Having cutscenes done helps the group move forward

And I can't stress this enough - it doesn't matter what your job is or the strategy you employ, you should always have items ready.

Mages should bring high-ethers, yagudo drinks, sneak oils, prisim powders and reraise items. Melees should bring high-potions, sneak oils, prisim powders, icarus wings and reraise items. The BCNMs are time-sensitive often limited to 30 minutes. Notice I said some items twice? Having people laying around crying for a raise is wasting valuble time and forcing a potential loss on the group. Bring reraise, it helps prevent this issue. Bringing potions and ethers also takes some pressure off the mages and helps the endurance of the group, bring 'em.

Also there are areas where sneak and invisble spells will be detected by archana-type mobs, so mages should research ahead and know those mobs will be there so they can bring the items. Melees should never be looking at a mage for a sneak or invis during a mission. I don't care if it is common courtesty to get a sneak and invis starting out in the zone, you're there to do a mission and get to that BC quickly, not to cut corners on spending gil.

Also, coming to a mission naked or in crafting/event gear is unacceptable. What if your killer strategy doesn't work out. You're going to get your character's lungs handed to them, that's what. I just helped with a CoP 2-5 and our SMN, who thought he was coming to Astral Flow the BC, was invited to be our kiter. He had nothing but gloves on and, to top it all off, no one brought reraise but me. NIN thought Astral Flow as the winning strat, that it was a sealed deal, so it didn't bring reraise.

Well, we didn't win. Mammets ate the SMN when he stopped kiting for a second. We lost 10 minutes on recovery since melees and mages alike didn't bring Reraise. I shared what RR items I had left, but it was really just for me.

What makes it all the more frustrating when people don't gear themselves is that there are sets of gear made specifically for use with these missions. Seer's Set for WHM, BLM, SMN, SCH and PUP. Noct Set for RNG, COR and THF. Shade set for all the rest. Some of this is really nice stuff to work with in 30, 40 and 50 caps. Yet people STILL refuse to make the investment in it and store it away for later use.

But then, this is what makes CoPs (and sometimes other things) so frustrating - some people treat it like a Valkurm Dunes PT. They come in thier fishing gear with no preparation then get frustrated why they don't win. Even people who've beaten these missions, who should know better pull this crap. And people just trying to help get frustrated when people are riding on thier skills instead of those people playing at the top of thier game.

If you want to know why lots of people who have completed these missions don't want to go back to help, look over the last three paragraphs, it happens a lot more than you think. We had to put up with it when these missions were new, too, its ridiculous people still treat it like a dunes PT years later and then wonder why they're not progressing.

Listen, Listen, Listen!

When people aren't paying attention to the leader, bad things happen. I recently had an instance where I met a slew of people that were incapable of paying attention to directions. When the leader presents a strategy, listen and if you're unsure about your role in a situation, ask questions.

I did Mithran Trackers with a DRK, NIN, RDM and two BLMs as my SCH recently. Not the usual setup I'm used to, but I saw no reason why that would prevent a win. I layed out the strategy, the order in which we persued targets and where we would pull them. A BLM was to sleepga the mithra, we pull Shikaree Y first and then DD/Nuke her down.

The BLMs sleepga the mithra, we pull Shikaree Y and then the BLMs decide to AM Shikaree Z.

...

We lose, I go over the strategy again.

We go in again, NIN aggros the mithra to buy BLMs some time to Sleepga the Mithra. BLM just stands there not casting Sleepga and lets the NIN die.

...

These BLMs claimed to have won the BC before and that they were "just helping" - I seriously doubt that. They said they had "never heard of this strategy" before. This strategy has been in Erecia's guide, on FFXIclopedia and elsewhere for ages. It was the most basic strategy.

But that wasn't even the worst experience.

So I'm doing CoP 8-3 recently as well. We get this RDM - total backseat driver. There wasn't a moment in the mission where the rest of us didn't want to strangle him. He constantly regurgitated the strategy we had already been over and read ourselves like he was leading it.

I suggested the first fight be the "dry run." I'm not a fan of dry runs, but in the case of this BC, I will make a grand exception due to it being a total pain in the butt. Its nasty, people need to know what they're in for on this one.

RDM throws a hissy fit, force-feeding the strategy we already know. Maybe his fancy endgame gear was too tight and cutting off the circulation to his head. The irony was this joker was the very last person to the BC becase we had to wait in him to get his key items/cutscenes for access to the BC. The rest of us had soloed ours prior to the fight. When you lag behind like that, you clearly are not the leader, shut up and listen to the real leader.

We do the second run just as any guide would have laid it down - two hour down the first two pots, wipe, then take down the other two. We had a good setup for that, no question, I just wanted that first run to kinda get people oriented and ready for the real fight. RDM totally took credit for the win on the second run. :roll:

We would have kicked him were it not for the fact one of our UK buddies had dozed off at the keyboard and this RDM wouldn't have gotten the win.

Just listen to the leaders. Not hard, just do it. Some of us have been around this block before - we know what we're talking about, we do things a certain way for specific reasons. Its fine to ask questions and offer suggestions, but don't argue with the leader on strategy.

Things to Buy Before You Leave for the Mission

I'll make this section simple.

Hi-Potion Tanks and Hi-Ether tanks rock. They can be obtained from doing ToA Assaults and are common drops in low tier Assaults. They sell for cheap in the AH too, so don't be the fool who buys the potions separately when you can get them in these tanks for far cheaper. Keep in mind that the tanks are level 55 items, so you have to be of the level to use them, but if you're of the level, there are sometimes uncapped areas of various zones prior to the BCNMs where you can use them.

Juices and Yagudo Drinks are also pretty cheap, you can actually skill cooking to 50 practically on Juices alone. From there, Yagudo Drinks are a stone's throw away. Its not terribly difficult to have Cooking to 60 over the course of these missions. Ginger Cookies are helpful as well. Rather than go for major MP foods, its better for mages to focus on faster MP recovery.

I've already beaten the Reraise issue to death, all I'm going to say is if they're worth having for soloing and endgame excursions, they're worth having for missions as well. There's lots of ways to have RR stocked too. Reraise earrings, hairpins and gorgets, reraiser and hi-reraiser potions in addtion to the Scroll of Instant Reraise purchaseable off Conquest and Besieged NPCs in major cities.

Get your cutscenes done, for the love of Altana, JUST DO THEM!

I'll of give enough room before another mission for party members to obtain cutscenes for the next mission and BCNM fight. 9 times out of 10, there's always one person that doesn't get all the CSes beforehand.

This is a fantastic way to get left behind on a static, even on other types of missions. Please be courteous and keep in mind that your party members are making the time to these Cutscenes to speed up getting the missions done for the group.

People will put levelling, crafting, endgame and whatever other nonsense they can think of ahead of doing these cutscenes. Then they try catching up at the last minute. Problem is, the "last minute" often take an hour or two of running around. If the leader says you can solo your cutscenes, get them out of the way ASAP as to not waste time. No one likes twiddling thier thumbs, thinking about all the other stuff they could have been doing while waiting on you.

CoP Pick-ups vs. CoP Statics

Pick-up groups for CoPs are often asking for trouble, though you can sometimes get lucky and find a stellar group ready to go, its doesn't always turn out like that. Finding a reliable static party or linkshell is often the best way to go about CoPs.

Its not so much that CoPs can't be done on pick-ups, but that its easier to get stuck at various points if you don't have a steady group for them. Once a group gets moving and there's chemistry between its members, its a lot easier to progress and you know what to expect of your party. When faces keep changing, the potential for that unprepared fool just begins to increase.

Statics do sometimes leave people burned, though. Sometimes some people not used to other timezones may get frustrated about the timeframes in which CoPs take place. To compound this, some endgame linkshells these days often require Sea access to become part of thier linkshells, which unfortunately turns CoPs into a cutthroat affair for endgame players.

I know this because the first CoP static I led was ruined by three individuals that put thier endgame aspirations ahead of the rest of the group and left me and the other two behind. This after I made every concession and compromise for them and led them to several wins. It was really infuriating. Made me want to quit the game, in fact.

I personally find it that doing CoPs with your dedicated friends to be the most satisfying approach and the one I've used most often. If you've supported each other in a linkshell, then you know these people are commited to your success as well as thier own. Even after I've successfully lead to people to sea, there have been those who just used others for progress, but so long as you still have your good friends with you, its easier to rebuild a group.

Time Zones can be a tricky issue. Work, School and life in general can bring in some conflicts with time zones. When such is the case, its often best to make comprimises. European and Australian players often get left in the worst postion, the best comprimise in thier case is to try to place missions Friday on throught the weekend. Remember, if you make the time for other people and show them you're on top of your game and willing to progres, most of the time, people will go the extra mile for you.

Morale

There are days in CoP shit will just hit the fan, its actually not so bad these days when it does because in the BCs you'll never lose EXP for dying. Better still, you'll be rewarded EXP if you are alive for the win.

If things do go wrong, though, its best not to point fingers. Though I'll admit it when someone comes absolutely unprepared with no reraise times or proper gear (or no gear), its a little easier to lose your patience. Even though there are no EXP losses now for dying, it can be extremely frustrating just knowing you came prepared and others didn't, watching both time and resources go down the drain. It makes it hard to want to continue.

Conversely, its a lot easier to get back up and try again when you know your group did indeed come prepared in every aspect. Coming prepared motivates your group to do better.

All the same, it is important to keep a cool head. Promyvions in particular are like your CoP Boot Camp, they show you the kinds of things you should prepare for on future missions. Be a little more forgiving on the lower tier missions, but also be more firm the higher you go and drill the necessities into your group's head. You can't really win without being prepared.

Some people may still take offense for you being firm, be prepared for that. People love to think they're an experienced player just because they're in endgame, have multiple 75s or gotten the win before. None of that is an excuse for not coming prepared. No one wants to run to the top of a Promy or Riverne Zone just for one fight and just to lose and waste time. Bring those items, show that group you were thinking about them and not just thinking about getting it over with.

Avoid Burnout

Some people will tell others "Oh man, I got CoPs done in, like, a week." I tend to think these people are either full of it or chronically unemployed. Nevertheless, bum rushing these missions in such a fashion isn't for everyone. Don't expect people to want to approach CoPs in a rush. I know some endgame LSes require Sea access these days, but trust me, Sea isn't going anywhere.

Plus, CoPs tend to eat into you gil when you do them. I put a lot into helping with these missions and I'm a RNG and COR, so I'm spending on top of spending for my jobs as is. Just like not everyone may be from the same time zone or as high level as you, they might also not have the same resources as you do. Be patient, space missions out reasonably so your group can do them without strain.

----------------------------------------------------------------

And that's pretty much all I have to say. While it may come as common sense to the experienced player, there will always be those trying to cut a corner or take the easy way out and they end up making things harder than they have to be. There are easy ways out but not everyone wants thier experience of these missions tainted by a SMN or BLM army just destroying the BCNMs for them. I personally think that approach is for weak players. Some people think thats the best/easiest way to go about it, but then, those are sometimes the people who come back to "help" and just make matters worse instead of better.

But when everyone comes prepared, its such a beautiful thing. I really do get a charge from completing a mission and getting a win, even if its a rough win and not for my benefit.

[Murphie]

I wish I could give you multiple thanks for this. You've pretty much echoed everything I've tried (and failed) to explain to people with regard to COP missions for the past two years.

[Icemage]

Definitely sage advice. Time to apply the glue!


Icemage

[Coinspinner]

I got up to 4-2 with a semi-static before we drifted apart. I was always prepared for the missions, but it seems that no matter how many times you tell people what to bring or what to do they'd rather waste time than gil. Which is the same thing, if only they'd stop to think about it.

If there's anything I can add to this thread, it's to ask people to refrain from falsely advertising a PM2-3 run (Aqueducts, Minotaur) as a subligar farming expedition. (Edit: Or the reverse.)

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

If there's anything I can add to this thread, it's to ask people to refrain from falsely advertising a PM2-3 run (Aqueducts, Minotaur) as a subligar farming expedition. (Edit: Or the reverse.)

Thankfully, most people won't do that anymore and generally farm subligars from Sacrarium instead of Aquaducts. If I know a Sacracrium mission is coming, I'll hop on the first Swift Belt run I see and play whatever role is needed. Then I play my two characters through the mission, stuffing one behind the door you have to open twice. This way, no one else in my party has to build hate on the mission by killing Fomors but me and then I just solo the fomor hate off as BST/THF and make some gil killing the beastmen in the process.

BTW, since you're on 4-2, I'll pass this info along. The items to make the Mistmelts for that mission also happen to drop off the Grauberg Hippogryphs in Grauberg (S) in addition to the Riverne zones. Much easier to take a group of 75s to Grauberg and get the tailfeathers there, though I've found them soloable as BST in the 40 cap Riverne zone.

Either way, you can get the job done and save some gil by not having to buy the mistmelts off AH.

Ouryu is honestly a big pushover. Lots of people have problems simply because they don't dispel, put up Barstonra and then panic when they run out of mistmelts. I've taken this guy down with every imaginable setup. Last time I didn't even have a BLM for the run, but SCH did his job just fine

In fact the setup was PLD, WAR, BLU, COR, SCH, RDM. Told the BLU to keep the stuns on him, RDM to keep up Barstonra, SCH to keep cures and nukes even, WAR and PLD to play it normal and for all to disengage during Invincible. I maintained Sleeps with Light Shot and dispelled Stoneskin whenever it came up so RDM could focus on Barstonera and healing.

Went very smooth. Ouryu's spells didn't even bring big damage to us. Didn't even use all the melts I farmed feathers for. Made a 10k profit on the mission instead of operating at a loss.

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Usually, the blocking point for most players I see with CoP missions are the following:
1. The party has to have an exact job setup.
2. Members must spend a lot of gil on supplies.
3. Members must wear the best possible gear for their job / level cap.

I have often read responses from people who have completed CoP who say, "CoP isn't that hard." They'll say, "You don't have to have that exact setup." Or, "You don't need all those supplies."

Let me just say that you can probably get away without doing any of those 3 things I listed and still have a good shot at succeeding in the level capped, BC style fights. If you ignore any 2 of those 3 things and the fight will be much more difficult. Ignore all 3, and you've put yourself in the position of making the fight about as difficult as it can possibly get, short of simply going in with fewer party members.

In my mind, #1 makes the biggest impact on the fight, followed closely by #2 depending on the particular mission. There is also an ultimate requirement that every member must pull their own weight. Two or three dedicated members can pull the weight for an entire party when you're getting exp. But this is not the case with CoP in general.

A couple of my own experiences:

CoP 2-5 -- first attempt
I did this with a group that was shouting for a 6th member. The other 5 members I joined all belonged to the same LS. So technically, I was the only "pick up" member. Our party setup was WAR/NIN, BLU/NIN, DRG/WAR, RDM/NIN (to kite), RDM/BLM, and BST/NIN (me, 2nd kiter).

You could probably make the argument that we had already deviated from optimal party setup just based on tank selection. I'm not saying a WAR couldn't solo tank this mission. But one RDM who's main responsible for main healing probably isnt' enough support for a WAR tank. Not that it ended up mattering, since the WAR couldn't hold hate. The WAR was wielding a lvl 32 Warrior's Axe in his mainhand and a lvl 30 Centurions Sword in his offhand. There are better "NQ" alternatives for both weapon types for 40 cap. Not to mention that the WAR would have been far better with a GAxe. This happened during the hey day of the 2 handed adjustment where the STR:attack and DEX:acc ratio was 1:1. The WAR claimed to be lvl 64 with capped GAxe skill, so underleveled skill wasn't the issue. He simply chose bad DD gear for this mission.

Most of the members had no idea what Yellow Liquid was for, and needless to say those members did not bring any to the fight. Some of them didn't even bother bringing prism powders for the trip.

The end result was 3 consecutive wipes before I threw in the towel.

CoP 2-5 -- second attempt
Party setup: NIN/WAR x 3, WHM/BLM x 2, COR/NIN.

This was supposed to be a "each NIN + WHM pair takes care of their own mammet" strategy. Except that we didn't have a 3rd WHM, and instead had a COR. One of the NINs hadn't played NIN in a year, and had pieced together the best NIN gear setup that they could. So we decided to have the COR help that NIN with a mammet, and had my WHM cover both me and that NIN.

We made our first attempt a "dry run", and saved our important supplies and 2 hours for the 2nd fight. We ended up winning on our dry run without a single yellow liquid being used. I used a couple of hi potions when my mammet went into BLM mode, but I wasn't even in any real danger during those times.

We slightly deviated from one of the golden party setups, but we were close enough that it made the fight so much easier.

Edit:

Ouryu is honestly a big pushover. Lots of people have problems simply because they don't dispel, put up Barstonra and then panic when they run out of mistmelts.

I would label Ouryu as a "manageable challenge", but "big pushover" may be going too far. Perhaps this is why so many players don't bother coming prepared to a mission. They hear an experienced player make the claim that mission X is easy, so they feel they can waltz right in and go 1/1 rather than giving that mission the respect it deserves.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Thing is, not that much gil has to be spent if you plan your character out wisely from the start. Most, if not all, the mission items can be farmed if you plan it out in advance. If there was any item that was "not needed" for CoPs, I'd say its the items for Mithran Trackers and Snoll Tzar BCs. Mithran trackers are pretty weak and the items don't slow them down enough, if Snoll Tzar Berzerks, you've pretty much won the fight, so extending the time isn't a big deal.

Farming for Animas, Mistmelts and CCB Polymers is extremely helpful to getting a win for thier respective fights however and spending gil on the items is a waste. Additionally, things like high potions, high ethers can be easily obtained from the lower tier Assaults now. So if you just take the time to complete the Assaults, you can just take those hi-potion and hi-ether tanks and save them for later.

I'll use my SCH and DNC as an example for gearing. DNC is probably not the ideal choice for CoPs, but that doesn't stop me from prepping it for 30, 40, 50, 60 caps for helping with CoPs and other BCNMs.

The Shade set isn't that great for CoPs as it lacks stats, but its not a total wash. The crafted Federation knives, Republic Subligar and Mercenary Captain and Shade gears work out great all the way to 40, so I take that and store it away on my mules after I take DNC past 40.

SCH is just as straightforward for CoPs as WHM, BLM and SMN are - that Seer's set is going to last you to 50, from there you can gear for MP or IMND/INT as you see fit. I do prefer the Mycophile Cuffs over Seer's Mitts +1, though and the HQ set is great for levelling to 50, so I just store it away on my mule after 50.

Most people just sell all this stuff the moment they level and don't look back. I keep the gear and store it away for later. I know CoPs or BCNMs will come up and I don't have a list of excuses not to do these things when they do. I don't have to spend the gil on gear for these because I simply keep the gear and farm for new gear.

Its tempting to sell of that old gear to continue levelling for the sake of levelling, but all the levelling in the world doesn't garuntee you a CoP or BCNM win. Players do these frustrating little things because they think it makes things easier in the here-and-now, but in the long run, they make these things harder for themselves and others.

I would label Ouryu as a "manageable challenge", but "big pushover" may be going too far. Perhaps this is why so many players don't bother coming prepared to a mission. They hear an experienced player make the claim that mission X is easy, so they feel they can waltz right in and go 1/1 rather than giving that mission the respect it deserves.

Yes, but this is why I expect RR items, hi-pots and the like no matter what. If I'm leading the mission, it doesn't start until I've made a check over all our items and gear. No one enters or wanders about the zone without what they need to do the mission and no BC is entered without the strategy laid out, no matter how many times others have heard it. I just beat this shit into people's brains. Hell, if people don't show an hour early for missions, I won't hesitate to cancel.