SCH Relic Staff Stats?

[Temagori]

I can just imagine what this staff's stats look like. "Enhances Arts Effect" "Enhances Sublimation Effect" "Enhances Every-dad-gom-thing SCH has" lol

But seriously I think it might have either Arts enhancement or Elemental/Weather Enhancments. I can't imagine it having melee stats predominantly. I'm sure maybe some kind of stats, but seeing as SCH has no business meleeing it would be a waste.

What do you guys think?

[Callisto]

Most are hoping that the mage weapons will have useful casting stats, as of now the 3 'mage' Dynamis Relics(counting Excalibur, I know it's a bit of a reach) are useless to the casters that can use them, and even aside from that only 2 Dynamis Relics are what one would consider useful to an entire LS...which kind of is an issue since it takes an entire LS to attain one.

While I think S-E will do a better job with mage relics this time around they are currently batting .000, so who knows. We'll find out next month when the .dat miners do their thing.

[Malacite]

Really, Exaclibur useless to RDM?

:wtf:

Ever see a WHM/NIN using Mjollnir and Kraken? Didn't think so. Claustrum on the other hand really does blow. @_@ I've seen the guy on our server that has it... ugh what a waste of resources.

[Yellow Mage]

Really, Exaclibur useless to RDM?

I, too, would like to see the reasoning behind this, other than merely "just haste me lolz."

[Saphiera]

yeah I think it will enhance ARTs or maybe Ehance Helix's wich would be sexy as hell!

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

I, too, would like to see the reasoning behind this, other than merely "just haste me lolz."

I think its more to do with the fact that in situations where RDM melee would take place, that Joyeuse or Justice Sword would beat it handily by thier base function. I've seen the Excalibur in action during a merit PT on a PLD, Knights of the Round was just barely over 400 per WS.

I snickered, then Slug Shotted for 700 to 1k+ and TPed with my Joyeuse.

To be fair, he did keep hate the whole PT with his cures and damage, despite him being /NIN against a COR and two really pimped WARs, but damage-wise, Excalibur just wasn't bringing much to the table.

If Excalibur was supposed to do more than I saw, maybe the PLD wasn't using it right? I dunno, first relic user I PTed with. The PT was impressive, but that aside, he probably could have done just as well with a Joytoy.

[Malacite]

Excalibur should have been doing some nasty damage.

Excalibur - FFXIclopedia - a Wikia Gaming wiki (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Excalibur)

Somepage lists it as 12.62 DPS. That's pretty good right there. It has the highest DMG rating (not counting latent on Company Sword) of all swords, attack +20 and KotR has some nasty mods;

3.0 TP modifier at all TP levels with 40% STR and MND. Also grants a pretty sweet (I believe 20/tic?) Regen. Then you take into account the random procs for 2.5 damage, as well as the additional effect (25% of your current HP in damage)

So yeah, either he was having lousy luck with procs or maybe his HP wasn't high enough often enough. Joyeuse is more reliable I'd say, especially with enspells but Excalibur shouldn't be taken lightly.

The point I wanted to make about KotR was that assuming you're not using a sub that gives you the EX weaponskills, Excalibur will grant you KotR to compensate.

Besides, don't you think it would just, well, suck complete ass if Joyeuse really was that much stronger given the work needed? (note: not bashing joyeuse here)



EDIT: In the hands of say a Galka PLD who's really pimped (Hell why not, if you have Excalibur odds are you're pretty pimped out) with around 2k HP, assuming you're luck to get it to proc when you have full HP that's going to be 500 damage dealt instantly on top of the swing. Scary stuff, if rather unlikely.

[Feba]

Ever see a WHM/NIN using Mjollnir and Kraken? Didn't think so.

Honestly, Mjollnir is a help, but it's not like it's what makes WHM/NIN possible.

[Malacite]

I wasn't saying that. I was saying it breaks it.

[Ziero]

I think its more to do with the fact that in situations where RDM melee would take place, that Joyeuse or Justice Sword would beat it handily by thier base function. I've seen the Excalibur in action during a merit PT on a PLD, Knights of the Round was just barely over 400 per WS.

I snickered, then Slug Shotted for 700 to 1k+ and TPed with my Joyeuse.

What?

Did you not notice the built in, nearly 90%(?) mini-Spirits Within going off almost every swing? As Malacite pointed out, a Galka Pld with 2k max HP can do 500 a *swing* with a sword. Even if he was down to 1k that's still 250+ dmg a swing *while* dual wielding and gaining a +20 per tick HP that stacks with other regens.

On a melee Rdm, Exca in the main, Joy in the sub and you can do easy 250+ a swing with 1k HP while still getting the benefeits of a joy in your sub. Now find any other combination of weaponry a Rdm can use that will allow a 250+ dmg per swing while gaining a fairly strong WS regardless of subjob(it's better then Vorpal).

As for the topic at hand, I hope these weapons do have job specific stats or at least something that will enhance the abilities and skills of said job who uses it. Like as for Sch, maybe enhanced Weather boosting abilities or hell even giving mages those "Relic Spells" that SE mentioned so long ago.

[Callisto]

To clear things up, I meant that I could own an Excalibur as RDM, and 90% of the time my casting duties at endgame events would require me to be using a different weapon, or being too busy to swing often enough for good output, as well as requiring a solid melee set on you at all times(which I do unless I'm tanking, but that's besides the point), making it effectively useless to me for something that I spent 60-80m on. (Remember, there's more to 75 than Greater Colibri...)

Meanwhile, had the RDM relic sword been MAcc+20 instead of Acc+20 with the same additional effect it'd be worth every piece of currency and you could effectively full time it and melee. This is the type of thing I'd like to see out of the new relics, BLM staff with a MAB comparable to Elemental Staves, PLD Sword with Damage Reduction or Enmity, shit that's actually useful to the jobs.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Did you not notice the built in, nearly 90%(?) mini-Spirits Within going off almost every swing? As Malacite pointed out, a Galka Pld with 2k max HP can do 500 a *swing* with a sword. Even if he was down to 1k that's still 250+ dmg a swing *while* dual wielding and gaining a +20 per tick HP that stacks with other regens.

Oh no, I just totally ignored it. :rolleyes:

I think I would have noticed had it did. But it didn't happen.

[Balfree]

Really, Exaclibur useless to RDM?

:wtf:

Ever see a WHM/NIN using Mjollnir and Kraken? Didn't think so. Claustrum on the other hand really does blow. @_@ I've seen the guy on our server that has it... ugh what a waste of resources.

It takes a great man (or woman/mithra) to get a relic. But it takes an even greater person to get a useless relic.

Kinda like that $10.000.000 or something (lol) watch that doesnt tell the time and somehow got sold out on its first day of sales.

[Temagori]

I agree with Callisto to an extent. The Excalibur isn't useful from the mage side of RDM, but it is incredibly good for soloing nonetheless.

I would love to see these new relics truly add things that made each job that utilized them stand out that much more via using them. The ancient idea of adding Relic Spells to them would be lovely.

I can just see the BLM now with their "Meteor" added spell. Or RDM with "Regain". Or a SMN with "Pheonix". I can't imagine, aside from song casting delay or songs + something or another, what BRD's would gain.

RNG I don't know enough about. BST maybe would get a special "Relic Pet" or CHR/Reward/Charm enhancements. WHM Cure Potency up with maybe "Holy II" or "Banishga III", but those would be somewhat worthless imo. (And I have Divine merits lol)

DRG may would get Wyvern enhancements and/or Jump enhancements. SAM more likely than not would / will most likely get things to do with Meditate, Third Eye, or Zanshin. DNC might would get a new Jig, Samba, Waltz or Flourish.

SCH I hope gets further enhancement of Light and Dark Arts and/or some kinda Relic spell. I.e. "Regain" or some spell that makes the weather effects add the stat for that weather as a bonus. (STR for Fire weather etc)

PLD should, imo, get that long wished for "Provoke" like JA. If not some adequate dmg reduction/enmity up stats. NIN should get Uts:San and maybe ninjitsu skill/tool expertise. WAR I also don't know well enough HL to think of anything it could benefit from.

THF might get a TH boost or enhanced steal capability as well as evasion boosts. COR might could get some kinda Relic Roll like... "Omega Roll" or something lol. DRK could gain enhanced drain / absorb spells and/or relic spell like "Ultima".

PUP might could gain Relic WS for themselves as well as their PUP with the obvious puppet enhancements. And BLU might could gain some kind of relic spell like "Immortal's Secret" or even a JA of the same nature.

All of which supposedly will all offer new ws which we can all hope might open up some further SC possibilities. Maybe even level 4 SC's to play with. Those are my thoughts on the possibilities. Who knows. All we can do is wait for the hackers to figure it out lol.:thumbsup:

[Lmnop]

Read the flavor text of the Axe. I forget already, but I remember noticing a very strong allusion to increasing charms somehow. So I think it's very reasonable that these will have stats geared to each job.

Even though it's a sword, I imagine Paladin will get at least something geared towards shielding... unless I'm completely off base and S-E is content to make pld/nin even more supreme.

[Temagori]

Let's all pray that we aren't off-base by thinking logically, but it's as they say. Why would they do that? It makes too much sense...

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

I really do sometimes hate it when people keep suggesting some job be given something broken like Regain. Especially a job that is already popular and powerful like RDM. Before the SCH update, I might have felt WHM or SCH should have something like that as a gambit against what RDM, BRD and COR have, but now that SCH has become a really powerful job with access to BLM Tier IVs and insane Crowd Control ability, its better they just boost WHM and BLM in thier own respects.

Even with Relic, it would be pretty broken to hand out something like Regain.

Note: In regards to my previous comments about Excalibur, one aspect I forgot to mention was that this PLD mainhanded Excalabur and off-handed joy. Given he was /NIN and off-handing Joyeuse and had no Brutal Earring to proc main hand, this could be why Excalibur's specialized damage was so difficult to see. Joyeuse procs a ton and recasting spells usually forces a delay on swings, though not always.

Of course, shit was also just going really fast in that PT. Very high chains in a colibri camp as WAR x2, PLD, COR, BRD and RDM.

[Feba]

Well, we (or at least, I) don't know yet precisely how much effort it's going to take to get the new weapons. Personally, for the old relics, I always thought they were extremely underpowered. Even where they are usable, it's generally a matter of "This is the best weapon out there for this job", and not "Holy shit this thing is freaking awesome". When you're putting in as much effort (or gil) as it takes to get one of them, that's really not enough. I'd rather see SE make relic weapons incredibly useful in other ways than break them in battle, though. Like, have the THF weapon effectively allow a THF to use Hide, and toss out sneak/invis potions (a legendary thieves weapon that makes you a master of sneaking around); inventive stuff.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Overall, what I hope is that they're a bit more sane/practical to obtain. I hope there are insanely challenging quests involved rather than mindless grinding in places such as Dynamis to obtain the ability to upgrade them.

But I expect it to be insane anyway. All I know is now that Death Penalty is out there, its a focus and hopefully I don't have lose my soul in exchange for one :P

[Feba]

Yeah, that'd be nice too. Relic weapons should be more of a personal endeavor, anyway. It doesn't make sense to have 60+ people fighting to get something that's only going to have a benefit to one of them.
______________________________
Insane efforts should have insane rewards.

Group efforts should have group rewards.

[Temagori]

I fully agree with the sentiment of group rewards for group things and individual rewards for individual accomplishment.

I would have no problem doing things above and beyond that just involved me or hell even if it took two or three and up to a party..., but a full alliance is a little much for something only one can use. To somewhat quote Feba.

I mean I just hope these aren't a flop and seem like just a novelty weapon like the Relic Club and Relic Staff are.

[Feenicks]

Well getting to Lv100 in Nyzul is a big enough slog in and of itself, I was of the opinion that the Nyzul relics would only need some crafting items and imperial currency in order to upgrade them. I kind of expected them to be good weapons but not the absolute apex of amazingness, which you would use in order to have access to Nyzul relic WS (or spells for mage jobs possibly).

[Yellow Mage]

Or RDM with "Regain".

Let me be the first to say:

NO!

. . . No, wait, 'kitten beat me too it. Blargh, I should've seen the next page. :wasted:

[Temagori]

Wait so if I understand you right you thought you would get a good relic weapon with stats based on jobs that didn't have the relic WS that you could then upgrade again to get the relic WS?
______________________________
The only reason people suggest Regain is because it is a status in the game. Something else that suprisingly has not been added as a usable spell is Pax.

I realize Regain seems like a bit much to be added, but you never know with SE. I mean I am really surprised that you chose to attack Regain and not Meteor or Ultima or any of the other "Possibilities". My guesses are because you would love to be able to use those, but Regain in your mind is going too far.

If these relic weapons are truly hard to get rewarding someone with spells that seem powerful is kinda the point. You wouldn't say that someone should get something weak from a Fully Upgraded Relic weapon if your talking about the hopefuls that it might offer.

Embrace the possibilities. Hell before SCH came out there were hopefuls talking about the possibility of Geomancer who could tank using the different weather spells. Nice to think about, very plausible, just didn't happen. Look at it from that standpoint and Regain amongst other spells is not so much a "broken" inplausible idea for an addidtion to a end-form Relic weapon.

[Yellow Mage]

My guesses are because you would love to be able to use those, but Regain in your mind is going too far.

You're insane. Refresh and Haste is too much for some Red Mages already, Regain would just murder us! At least Ultima and Meteor are reasonable in that the user doesn't get screwed for having the spell! Not because they're too powerful at all, it'd just be more soul-rape. And, like 'kitten said, think of the poor other mages displaced by a single spell that Red Mages have already.

Even if it were self-cast only, it'd still be incredibly broken.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

I over look Meteor because it would have an ungodly MP cost to match its power, RDM on the other hand, does not need yet another buff to cycle nor does it need any more help in terms of support power.

[Temagori]

lol Well who says that RDM has to get it? SE could throw us a curve ball and make WHM get it or SCH even.

That would deter abit from the Soul Rape you speak of, but even Regain aside let's just hope what they add will be balanced with MP-->Powerfulness as was said of Meteor. I would like to see Pax for WHM and maybe the opposite of Pax for them or another mage as well.

All in all I just hope SE doesn't tease us with these only for them to suck royal ass.

[Feenicks]

Not to rain on your parade but Pax already exists. It's called Adventurer's Dirge (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Adventurer%27s_Dirge).

Ultima and Meteor, whilst potentially being amazingly powerful, have a drawback in that large amounts of damage bring with them large amounts of hate, and so must be used sparingly. Regain would be a buff which induces only minimal hate from the monster, and considering the benefit of Regain there's no balance at all. The only way I would want to see Regain implemented would be if it had the volatile enmity of a DS+Curaga IV.

[Temagori]

I meant literally the spell Pax not just a song that gives the effect of it. I mean giving it to a WHM on the weapon much the way the Relic WS show on it.

[Lmnop]

The only way I would want to see Regain implemented would be if it had the volatile enmity of a DS+Curaga IV.

Sch/nin tank. I'm already excited!

[Temagori]

lol Let's do eet~!

[Feenicks]

I meant literally the spell Pax not just a song that gives the effect of it.
I hope I don't seem like I'm picking on you, but what's the difference? If they renamed the song to be called Adventurer's Pax would it be different?

[Temagori]

To clarify I meant a spell not a song. I know it's the same thing, I mean Paeon is the BRD version of Regen, but we aren't argueing that point. I meant The physical spell being added to the spell list for a mage. In essence another job other than BRD getting it. I won't lie I forgot about that particular song, but nonetheless I stick by what I said.

I would like to / it would be nice if they added Pax to the list of spells a WHM, SCH, or ??? got. Hell to be quirky it would be a nifty spell for a PLD. The ability to lower the person they choose's enmity. And let's face it most BRD's don't get to utilize that song as much as another job might get to utilize it.

BRD gets to use it in end game events and very rarely in exp. And that's if they feel it is worth getting. I haven't actually asked any of the HL BRD I know, but I have not seen it used much myself even in HL events.

[Lmnop]

Isn't it a merited song only? No one actually uses their merits on Bard. :P

[Celeal]

I am thinking of Relic book or Relic encyclopedia for SCH instead of Relic staff ^^;

[Temagori]

I am thinking of Relic book or Relic encyclopedia for SCH instead of Relic staff
I wish that SE was thinking along those lines... Too bad they decided that a staff was the way to go ; ;

And to Lmnop:
Yeah, but I wasn't going to say that... It is a merited song. Too bad the better choice is to get the JA instead of that song lol.

[Lmnop]

I wish that SE was thinking along those lines... Too bad they decided that a staff was the way to go ; ;

Unfortunately, a book would be... strange. Would it be wielded like a club and have all of its animations? Would you 2-hand it in which case you're creating 7 new sets of animations for a single very hard-to-obtain weapon?

It would be nifty, but we can't chalk this up as a failure on S-E's part. Just a feasibility thing.

Besides, this is why SCH AF was a scroll.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

What about that Crimson Grimorie?

A possessed book as a pet.

OK, maybe not. That thing gets taken out in one or two nukes. :P

[Temagori]

Yeah I think they just avoided having to program a new weapon type, by making it appear when we use our Stratagems. Lazy bastards. Although I won't lie it looks cool. :P

I would have loved to see a ranged slot AF Grimoire though and I don't understand why they didn't, but meh.