A Rant: Past Player In the Present Economy

[ishio]

So I'm a returning player. Haven't played in over 4 years and couldn't recover my character. I'm thinkin' "ok, thats fine, i'll just start over". So after entering the game, the first thing I did was grab a signet and start whacking bees for wind crystals. I figure a couple stacks and I should have enough money to last me from 1-20. So after awhile of killing mobs, I head to the AH to sell off my crystals and hoping to get some meat mithkabobs(i know the folly in that, but that was before I read about the food update) so I can kill quicker.

I check the price of meat mithkabobs. 3.5? Hey, wow, great. I remember when it used to be 5k per stack. I then flip through all the noobie equipment on sale. I noticed a lot of the prices are a bit cheaper. Average noobie gear goes for about 1-2k now. Down from 2-4k. Quality noobie gear goes for 10k now. Down from 15k. So i'm grinning and thinking, "awesome, the economy must be a lot better now that theres a lot less RMTs!"

I then prepare to sell my wind crystals.

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500 gil per stack?! 500 GOD DAMN GIL PER STACK?????!!!!! Back in 2003-2004 they were going for 2-3k per stack depending on server!!!! How the hell did the price on crystals decrease by over 1/4th while the price on food and noobie gear barely halved?!

Today's economy is not noobie friendly at all. :cry:

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

The reason wind crystals aren't worth jack is high level PTs tend to favor birds that happen to drop the same crystals.

Back when you originally played, the only common low-price crystals were earth and water. Lightning, Fire and Dark Crystals are the profit crystals these days, but not by massive degrees.

Water crystals were cheap because we fought little else but crabs at 50+, now its very little else other than Colibri.

[Murphie]

The hell it isn't.

Don't buy newbie equipment on the AH. Buy it from NPCs for less. Don't eat Meat Mithkabobs when you're just starting out. Eat Meat Jerky (purchasable from an NPC) for the same benefit at a lower cost.

Wind Crystals decreased in price partly because they are so damn easy to get these days. There are still a lot of great ways to make gil as someone just starting out.

[ishio]

Fire has always been one of the highest profit crystals. Fire used to sell for over 4k a stack. Got as high as 6k before I left. Its under 1k now. 4 stacks of that and I'd have a cat baghnakh +1 back in the day. It would take 10 stacks now. Besides, the starting crystal drop in Bastok was between wind, earth, and water.

I was hoping to score the quality noobie gear(the +1) to help level quicker(no subjob sucks), and you can't buy that from NPCs... or did that change? Though I didn't know about the meat jerky from NPCs, thanks for the tip.

[Murphie]

+1 gear isn't going to speed up your newbie levels that much. You're fine with the NQ.

[assumedvigilance]

i used to hate the high prices on all the gear that i wanted/needed back in the day. spend a week or two builing up 300k to buy an earring/belt/whatever. now the stuff you want has gone down only slightly while the money making farmables from the past sell for a tenth of the past prices... if you are lucky enough to sell anything at all due to the constant undercuting that leaves everyone holding themselves looking around for some way to make that 1mil for that item you still need :angry:

[Kyoujin]

I know how you feel. I reactivated a few months ago after a similar length of time away from FFXI. My first perusal of the Auction House had me smiling...until I tried to make some gil. You'll find that most of the old methods of generating gil have either dried up of have been smashed with the nerf-club. It is especially difficult for the early levels. Must be rough on the new players.

At least the lower level zones aren't as crowded these days. You won't see more than a hundred people in the same area outside of Whitegate/Zabi.

[fallenintoshadows]

I find fire, dark and lightning to bring the most profit.

Try fishing moat carp, get a free rod from a goblin and cheap bait from npc. There's always grain seeds, bee chips, lizard skin and many more you can farm.

Don't forget crafts bring profit too, farm everything you get and start in LC/BC etc.

You'll get there :3

[IfritnoItazura]

ffxiah.com is your friend (just be careful not to enable scripting on its advertisement).

That, and give How to Make Money as a Newbie (http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/frequently-asked-questions/67145-how-make-money-newbie.html) a read.

[LadyKiKi]

Spam the Bubbly Bernie Quest. 500g per run, if you struggle a bit.

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Deflation: the stuff you buy is cheaper, but so is the stuff you sell.

Overall, it probably still take the same amount of work farming to buy stuff today as it did 3 years ago.

[Ameroth]

Fire has always been one of the highest profit crystals. Fire used to sell for over 4k a stack. Got as high as 6k before I left. Its under 1k now. 4 stacks of that and I'd have a cat baghnakh +1 back in the day. It would take 10 stacks now. Besides, the starting crystal drop in Bastok was between wind, earth, and water.

I was hoping to score the quality noobie gear(the +1) to help level quicker(no subjob sucks), and you can't buy that from NPCs... or did that change? Though I didn't know about the meat jerky from NPCs, thanks for the tip.

4k for a stack of fire (or any) crystals is ridiculous imo. There is less than 10% chance I would pay that much for a stack of crystals as opposed to finding an elemental.
Crystals are still useful for making newbie gil, but it's definitely not going to be at those inflated prices anymore. Leveling 1-10 should net you enough crystals to get started on.

Really, there's no reason to waste money on the +1 of the lowbie gear. Srsly, what's the difference between bronze harness and bronze harness+1? 1 defense and about 9k gil on my server. No thanks. Buy all your gear from NPCs as it will be much cheaper and help you move past being a broke newbie again, to a slightly-less broke mid-level player.

[Mhurron]

used to sell
News flash - Things change over time.

You came back and assumed everything was the same and then bitch about it when it's not. Maybe you should have thought before you did something.

[ishio]

Right. Things change. Its called deflation.

Since crystals now sell for 1/5th their price, other items now sell for 1/5th thei-oh wait. No thats not what happened.

I just checked the price of leaping boots on my old server on ffxiah.com. Its STILL around 200k. I read that they introduced a rare/ex with the same stats. I wouldve thought the price would change. I thought the price would plummet way down. But it stayed the same.

And emperor hairpin? What was once around 300k is now 500k. Deflation? The price on that went UP even with a rare/ex version of it. Its obvious that theres some sort of market manipulation going on over the past few years with some high-end items, and inflation/deflation has nothing to do with it.

...atleast Ochiudo's Kote went down in price. From 1.1 mil to 650k.

I was expecting a little logic in the economy after I came back. But this makes no sense at all.

When you have memories of a decked out SAM/WAR smacking tough vultures without breaking a sweat(and this was before the two-handed update), and then die from a DC vulture as a level 5 MNK/none at full health, you'd be grouchy as well.

[nanatsu]

if you died against a DC vulture as a lvl 5 mnk from full health, your gear had very little to do with it. I dunno what happened to you, but I was killing EM recently at that level with a little effort, with no subjob, on a new taru character I created.

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Right. Things change. Its called deflation.

Since crystals now sell for 1/5th their price, other items now sell for 1/5th thei-oh wait. No thats not what happened.
Actually, there are items which now sell for 1/10th of the previous value, or even less. Not everything changes in price at the same rate. Scorpion Harness has probably reduced in price more than staples such as crystals. There are now more gear alternatives to SH, but the number of NQ SH in circulation continues to increase. So beyond just the expected deflation, SH is now less ought after in the eyes of the player base than it once was.

Crystals are also a very volatile market. A few weeks ago, a stack of wind crystals on my server probably went for around 500 gil. Today, they're fetching around 900 to 1k gil. In a few more weeks, it may be back down to 500 gil a stack. The difference of a few hundred gil in price may not seem like much. But that's a large percentage change given the relatively low price.

Crystals are just so volatile that it's not the best measuring stick to compare durables against. That pair of Leaping Boots or Emperor Hairpin isn't going to vary in price nearly as wildly as a stack of crystals.

When you have memories of a decked out SAM/WAR smacking tough vultures without breaking a sweat(and this was before the two-handed update), and then die from a DC vulture as a level 5 MNK/none at full health, you'd be grouchy as well.
I don't come and vent on the forums when I'm grouchy.

[Mhurron]

Since crystals now sell for 1/5th their price, other items now sell for 1/5th thei-oh wait. No thats not what happened.
Yes, because everything changes exactly the same way, it has nothing to do with the value or supply of the item.

Things are slightly more complicated then they taught you in 1st grade math.

[ishio]

if you died against a DC vulture as a lvl 5 mnk from full health, your gear had very little to do with it. I dunno what happened to you, but I was killing EM recently at that level with a little effort, with no subjob, on a new taru character I created.

Yea, its the mob type. I could kill EM quadavs at that level with a 100% chance of winning. But when I died to that DC vulture, one of its special attacks knocked out nearly a quarter of my health. When it did that a second time in the same fight, well... thats not good. And thats the first mob that drops fire crystals around Bastok.

They aren't a problem anymore now that h2h and evasion skills rose a bit, but I wouldn't need to if I had the equipment.

Yes, because everything changes exactly the same way, it has nothing to do with the value or supply of the item.

Things are slightly more complicated then they taught you in 1st grade math.

Right, it has nothing to do with the value or supply of the item. There's more emperor hairpin supply now that there's 2 ways for them to drop, and yet the price increased.

Things are slightly more complicated than what they taught you in high school economics.

[nanatsu]

h2h skill raises your attack and accuracy. At level 5 there's nothing that does that. Nothing that raises your evasion either. At most you get an extra couple points of defense. Maybe 1 more dmg on your +1 weapon. That's not going to make or break a fight at any level other than perhaps level 1.

As mnk I went out with nothing but my fists, attack food, and RSE gear and killed EM-T rarabs in sarutabaruta. Then I moved on to EM crows at level 3. I didn't equip a weapon until lvl 9 and didn't upgrade my RSE until lvl 8. Again, your gear selection at that level is pointless. The reason why your SAM probably did better was because you had a subjob and you had a 2hand weapon which practically slaughters anything at a low level.

[Iarendiel]

Right, it has nothing to do with the value or supply of the item. There's more emperor hairpin supply now that there's 2 ways for them to drop, and yet the price increased.

As far as I know, you can only obtain an Emperor's Hairpin from a BCNM. They no longer drop from the NM. So that would make the Emperor's less common than before, since the new rare/ex version (that drops from the NM) cannot be bought/sold (needless to say the drop rate absolutely sucks)....which would result in the Emperor's hairpin cost going up, rather than down.

[nanatsu]

Hrm I stand corrected. you actually have several options for a couple extra points of acc for mnk at low levels. Not that it would make any difference for me, but if you need it to kill a dc mob I guess it's there for you...

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Right, it has nothing to do with the value or supply of the item. There's more emperor hairpin supply now that there's 2 ways for them to drop, and yet the price increased.

Things are slightly more complicated than what they taught you in high school economics.
Two ways, with one of them being a level 30 capped BCNM against 9 mobs that already have a resistance to Lullaby (and Sleepga is lvl 31). I commonly hear people wanting to do Under Observation for a shot at Peacock Charm, or Petrifying Pair for a shot at Leaping Boots. I've even seen some LS members attempt Divine Punishers for a shot at Fuma Kyana and Ochiudo Kote. But I don't remember the last time I saw anyone try to put together a run for Dropping Like Flies (which is the BCNM that drops Emperor Hairpin).

Technically, there are 3 ways to get Emperor Hairpin and it's clone, the Empress Hairpin. In Nyzul Isle, a ??? item might appraise to an Empress Hairpin. However, the only way for more Emperor Hairpins to enter circulation is through Dropping Like Flies.

Keep in mind that while identical in stats, Emperor Hairpin and Empress Hairpin may differ in value to someone simply because of the Ex status on one. I can sell my Emperor Hairpin if I decided one day that I'm done with it. Or I could move it to one of my mules in order to free up inventory space. I can't do either with an Empress Hairpin. So in my mind, Emperor Hairpin is more valuable to me than an Empress Hairpin.

[ishio]

nanatsu: Yea. You're talking about the cesti, right? Those can't be bought in Bastok from an NPC, but theres some in the AH right now. A +1 version, too. Could've obtained them in the past at level 5, can't obtain them in the present. Thats the point of my rant. The economy is not as noob friendly today than it was all those years ago.

As far as I know, you can only obtain an Emperor's Hairpin from a BCNM. They no longer drop from the NM. So that would make the Emperor's less common than before, since the new rare/ex version (that drops from the NM) cannot be bought/sold (needless to say the drop rate absolutely sucks)....which would result in the Emperor's hairpin cost going up, rather than down.

So why did Ochiudo's Kote go down? Is the drop rate on the rare/ex version much higher than the hairpin?

[nanatsu]

Eh... well my point was that you don't need those items... you're pointing the blame in the wrong direction. The current state of the economy didn't have anything to do with your level 5 mnk dying. Getting +1 gear probably wouldn't have made any difference. A couple of points of defense, slightly more accurate yet slower attacks... I just don't see how that would've helped. If you were to buy that stuff now and then win that fight, I still wouldn't say it helped. You should've been able to do so without the extra toys and if you died, you were unlucky or overlooked a check somehow. To be honest, I do quite well the way things are now and so do a lot of other people. Leveling from 1-10 was no difficult task in terms of gil or time. Overall I'm happy about things.

[Truece]

So why did Ochiudo's Kote go down? Is the drop rate on the rare/ex version much higher than the hairpin?

Perhaps it's an issue related to saturation? O.Kote are usable by only 3 jobs: MNK/SAM/NIN, while Emperor(ess) Hairpin is usable by many, ie more people want hairpin?

[Iarendiel]

Perhaps it's an issue related to saturation? O.Kote are usable by only 3 jobs: MNK/SAM/NIN, while Emperor(ess) Hairpin is usable by many, ie more people want hairpin?

Yes.

[ishio]

Eh... well my point was that you don't need those items... you're pointing the blame in the wrong direction. The current state of the economy didn't have anything to do with your level 5 mnk dying. Getting +1 gear probably wouldn't have made any difference. A couple of points of defense, slightly more accurate yet slower attacks... I just don't see how that would've helped. If you were to buy that stuff now and then win that fight, I still wouldn't say it helped. You should've been able to do so without the extra toys and if you died, you were unlucky or overlooked a check somehow. To be honest, I do quite well the way things are now and so do a lot of other people. Leveling from 1-10 was no difficult task in terms of gil or time. Overall I'm happy about things.

I may not need those items, but back then, I had the option to obtain them. I had the choice to make it easier. No such option now.

I know you know a SJ only adds a couple points of attack, defense, and accuracy at those levels. I know you know the combined effects of multiple +1 items at those levels exceeds what a SJ would give. So why did you assume that it was just my SJ(and not the combined effect of both) that made the difference in allowing my SAM to take on tough con?(and 2-handers back then were worse than MNK h2h, even at noob levels).

Perhaps it's an issue related to saturation? O.Kote are usable by only 3 jobs: MNK/SAM/NIN, while Emperor(ess) Hairpin is usable by many, ie more people want hairpin?

Maybe my knowledge of what classes used the EH is outdated, but why would someone that isn't a NIN/THF/RNG(and COR now I think) use it?
Sure, everyone can wear the EH, but that doesn't mean everyone should wear it.... right?

[Taskmage]

Melee jobs don't get anything better than dex+3 in the head slot until the early 40s.

[IfritnoItazura]

I was expecting a little logic in the economy after I came back. But this makes no sense at all.

Speaking of logic, S-E seemed to have anticipated the possibility of deflation since the beginning, and set floors to economy to prevent prices from falling too far.

How do I know? Let's just say I more than half of my Gil income is no longer from the AH.

Oh, and expecting everything to decline equally in price is silly; BBQ already explained that the supply of many types of crystals have increased dramatically--of course that means the relative value of crystals compared to other items would fall, and fall dramatically. To be otherwise would indicate an irrational, illogical market.

* * *

The amount of Gil a newbie needs is not high; you should be able to finance NQ gears up to Lv.30 from just leveling all six starter jobs to 10 and selling the drops. If not, a few hours of farming Beeswax here and there, hunting saplings for seeds for Gardening, etc. should more than fill the gap.

Heck, even crafting can make a newbie some Gil; Grilled Hare be made by total beginner (with some breaks), and be used to level Cooking to Lv.6 or so. You can even get Hare Meat and Fire Crystals for free from whacking critters in starter zones, and Dried Marjoram is only ~50 gil from NPC. Grilled Hare typically sell for 500-800 Gil on AH on my server, I think. (Or you can use it yourself when you level jobs in the 1-10 range, to kill things faster.)

[Karinya]

Silk and beehive chips haven't moved an inch since I started playing 3-4 years ago (except during the RMT bubble). Ditto goblin equipment (and goblins also drop gil directly, one of the non-AH-based, non-deflatable gil sources Itaz is hinting at). Ditto quadav backplate, since you mentioned Bastok.

Some low-level drops have quite respectable NPC prices; scroll of Sneak is a prime example. Amethyst Quadavs as low as level 3 can drop it (in addition to their guaranteed gil drop and a chance of Quadav Backplate, as well as some less valuable scrolls) and it NPCs for 500.

Saplings are also abundant in Gustaberg; you can sell the seeds for a decent price, or garden with them yourself. Rice is way *up* in value compared to years ago, because of its use in sushi; grain seeds have also gained value accordingly. According to ffxiclopedia both types of worms in gustaberg (even the level -1 tunnel worms!) can drop zinc, which you can either use for the quest yourself, or sell to players who will.


I think SE did set deflation guards on the economy - but it hasn't hit most of them yet. In general it's not worth your while trying to open coffers for gil, for example; you either open them for items or don't bother because farming items for AH is a better return. Deflation could change that, but when it does, new gil will enter the economy. Some quest turn-in items AH for more than the quest value (did you know silk is a quest item? It's never in my knowledge been worthwhile to do the quest compared to just selling the silk to crafters, but if there's another factor of 10 or so deflation, it would be) so those quests don't get done and don't introduce gil.

The fact that deflation-proof money making methods (beastmen, coffers, npc selling, cash quests etc.) introduce new gil into the economy make them an automatic boost to the gil supply whenever it becomes low enough to make those methods viable compared to farming items for sale. Which it hasn't yet.

[Ameroth]

Honestly, I really think the OP is blowing this out of proportion. This would seem like a little be larger issue for someone who has never played before, but not someone who already seems to know the ropes. Example, I started a new character, Mithran THF, not too long ago. At level 9 now, I have more than farmed up enough gil just from exping to provide the lowbie gear I need, and still save some gil up. And no, I didn't send my new character "starting gil" or whatever. Specialkay started off just like everyone else collecting her 50gil reward with the starter coupon.

Again, I think your money woes stem back to your insistence to have the uber lowbie gear. Like more than a few people have pointed out, selling 2-3 stacks of crystals, even at 500g a a pop, should net you plenty enough to buy the starter gear from NPCs with the exception of one or two pieces that are strangely only found in the other two nations you did not start in.

[Feenicks]

If the OP thinks that prices are still around the same as it was when he quit, I ask him to look at the current price of the Noble's Tunic and take into account that my LS leader bought one of those for himself four years ago for 13 million.

[Balfree]

There are other ways of making money now that maybe you didnt have 4 years ago. Things have changed, and its to be expected that since many of the equipment you mentioned dropped in price, the economy followed accordingly along with.

[Celeal]

Well, the economy is changing. However, that does not implies at all of a sudden a poor player will automatically become rich without spending the same (or more) efforts.

P.S. There isn't much point for +1 gear at starting level (unless it is very cheap or your can afford it very easily). On the other hand food and the exp. rings makes a huge impact. If the newbie got K.O-ed outside the starting city, just home-point and get back for exp. After killing a EP/DC few mobs for several minutes, the lost exp. will be returned.

[eticket109]

I would just like to say I love how the OP praises prices going down on equipment and gear and then bitches that crystal prices went down too.

The entire economy went down but overall, for the most part, the ratios all stayed about the same.

[ishio]

It amazes me how most of the people didn't actually read all the way to the bottom where I made my point. I even put the word "rant" in the title. Of course its gonna be a complaint. If some of you don't complaints, why did you even click on the thread?

It amazes me how most of the people that talk about the +1 gear have the mindset of, "There isn't much point for +1 gear at starting level (unless it is very cheap or your can afford it very easily).". If you can afford +1 gear 4 years ago as a noobie and you can't afford it today, does that not make my point correct?

It amazes me how most of the people that talk about the current economy have the mindset of, "The entire economy went down but overall, for the most part, the ratios all stayed about the same." The examples I gave throughout the thread point out that the ratios are no where near the same. There's a huge difference between 25%, 75%, and 150%.

Oh well. I tried to be civil. Thats what I get for thinking highly of this forum. I'm out.

[Taskmage]

Door's to your left.

[IfritnoItazura]

Umm... OK.. Feel free to come back when you can handle different opinions than your own? Or be not so discourage by price change in crystals (did you raise other examples? I may have missed them)?

Newbies are not supposed to have most of the +1 gears, BTW; I certainly don't expect them them, and neither does 99% of the players. Even for veterans, I only ask for standard pieces like Spike Necklaces, and things which makes sense in the slot. (No more MP earrings for WAR/MNK, please. >_< )

It's great you want to spend the extra time to better gear yourself, but don't turn around and complain about having to spend the extra time to get enough gil and expect no one to point out you're the one who's making yourself miserable. :biggrin:

* * *

I've spent a lot of time farming and camping for my HQ staves, Brigandan +1, Auriga Xiphos, Solid Mail set, and other optional gears at varying levels. Many of my LS mates laughed at my obsessiveness (and slow farming), and I merely shrugged at them. The gear makes me happy, and thus was worth my time--even though I've always thought of +1 stuff as "optional".

If, however, the +1 stuff isn't making you happy enough to be worth the time farming or camping or whatever, skip them. Just put sensible things in every slot you can; no one will fault you for it. >_>

[Cometgreen]

It amazes me how most of the people that talk about the +1 gear have the mindset of, "There isn't much point for +1 gear at starting level (unless it is very cheap or your can afford it very easily).". If you can afford +1 gear 4 years ago as a noobie and you can't afford it today, does that not make my point correct?
The economy does not revolve around low level +1 gear.

Rare items won't as easily deflate with the rest of the economy. If there are only one or two of item X on the AH at a time, the sellers have greater control over the price and can keep it artificially high. I don't know why +1 gear is harder to get now, as the supply could only have increased since you left, so the price should have gone down even more. Maybe you can find specific examples to fit your argument, but it seems to me like most equipment has been steadily falling in price.

[eticket109]

It amazes me how most of the people that talk about the current economy have the mindset of, "The entire economy went down but overall, for the most part, the ratios all stayed about the same." The examples I gave throughout the thread point out that the ratios are no where near the same. There's a huge difference between 25%, 75%, and 150%.

Oh well. I tried to be civil. Thats what I get for thinking highly of this forum. I'm out.

You're right. The high level gear scaled down exponentionally compared to crystal prices. Unfortunately, low gear went down, but not as much. Once you get past 10 or so, you'll see that a lot of sellables will more then cover your basic gear needs.

At low levels I would recommend rabbit hides and beehive chips to make money over crystals anyway. Fishing, especially moat carp, is another good option.

[Lunaryn]

I think SE did set deflation guards on the economy - but it hasn't hit most of them yet. In general it's not worth your while trying to open coffers for gil, for example; you either open them for items or don't bother because farming items for AH is a better return. Deflation could change that, but when it does, new gil will enter the economy. Some quest turn-in items AH for more than the quest value (did you know silk is a quest item? It's never in my knowledge been worthwhile to do the quest compared to just selling the silk to crafters, but if there's another factor of 10 or so deflation, it would be) so those quests don't get done and don't introduce gil.

The fact that deflation-proof money making methods (beastmen, coffers, npc selling, cash quests etc.) introduce new gil into the economy make them an automatic boost to the gil supply whenever it becomes low enough to make those methods viable compared to farming items for sale. Which it hasn't yet.

I note that in a few cases it's starting to hit these (and would have hit more if not for the inflation-era nerfs on some of the more significant NPC sources of gil). Almost every item that's not particularly rare or particularly worthless has had someone post a comment on ffxiah noting its NPC price and reminding people to sell to NPC when the price drops below that. I randomly got an Absorb-VIT scroll on a Dark Spark run yesterday and after a quick check sold it to an NPC in Bastok for 1536 gil (AH going rate was 1k).

I think what has been lost in the anti-OP vitriol (when was the last time I saw a thread complaining about anything besides technical "FFXI won't run"-type issues that wasn't followed by a series of attacks on the OP's understanding of the game, even when the attackers' viewpoints didn't differ all that substantially from the OP's?) is the fact that the economy has undergone a very radical transformation, and even veteran players are still having some trouble sorting out where everything stands with the economy as a whole. Many of us have worked out how to get by, but there was something almost intuitive about how the economy (or enough of it for most concerns) once functioned that seems to have been lost. I can't imagine an inflation-era player returning to today's economy and regarding it with anything less than shock and confusion.

To try to be somewhat constructive, here are some 'survival tips' to try to cope with this situation:

1) Farming will get you started, but it's not the same game it once was. High volume items have dropped in price substantially, low volume items may be hard to sell on the AH at all. You will need to give hard thought to whether to list items in starting nations (lower demand, sometimes higher or lower prices) or Jeuno (AH fees have been reduced, but more common items are straddling the price line where the base fee of 50 gil eats much of the earnings. I am serious, I see some things go for 100 gil or less on Jeuno AH). You will also always want to consider the NPC selling price; in most cases it will be too low to compare to AH selling, but some of the higher-NPC-price items are much more profitably NPCed today than auctioned.

2) Many specific ways of getting gil took very hard hits at the beginning of the massive deflation of the economy, and while many of them are starting to recover, things are a lot less stable in many areas. You will need to consider market conditions carefully before investing too much time and effort into a particular area. I can't recommend taking up crafting for profit, yet, but if you already have a craft you may have some options. At this point I'd recommend crafting more for utility purposes; it's becoming a lot more necessary to obtain certain types of resources yourself, some of which may be crafted. Items which used to sell cheaply and plentifully now often run out of supply because they're no longer seen as worth the effort of farming/crafting and selling.

3) Because gil is simply not a ridiculously plentiful thing anymore, the relative stability in value terms is a lot lower for any given method of acquiring it. Given that, it's much more vital than it previously was to use all the information resources available to you to predict the likely income of any given gil-making activity. Sites like ffxiah.com and ffxiclopedia.com are invaluable in making sure you know what items or raw gil an activity is likely to yield, what the going price and sales rate (in Jeuno) for those items is, whether the NPC price is high enough to warrant NPCing results or whether they are valuable in quests, whether you can craft them into something else and whether they are more valuable as raw material or finished goods. You will need to throw away many assumptions about what is viable and effective, as much has and continues to change. In the inflation-era economy, you needed to pay attention to markets and choose your targets wisely to make good gil, but you could make decent gil just by putting in effort to most any activity that offers rewards. In this economy, you need to pay attention and choose wisely just to make decent gil.

[Balfree]

Whoa.

It amazes me.

[IfritnoItazura]

1) Farming will get you started, but it's not the same game it once was. High volume items have dropped in price substantially, low volume items may be hard to sell on the AH at all.
AFAIK, high volume items have always been subjected to pricing volatility. Low volume items, too, have always been hard to sell--"hard to sell" is actually a pretty good way to define what's a "low volume" item.

some of the higher-NPC-price items are much more profitably NPCed today than auctioned.
That, in a nutshell, is the deflation floor.

2) Many specific ways of getting gil took very hard hits at the beginning of the massive deflation of the economy, and while many of them are starting to recover, things are a lot less stable in many areas.
Which commonly farmed by lowbies items' relatively pricing dropped massively, other than crystals? One stack of beehive chips didn't buy much during inflation period, and still isn't buying much now--but if you sell enough of them your gil count will add up, then and now.

Honestly, aside from AH manipulations happening with some mid and high level items (Woodsman Ring, Enfeebling Torque on Ifrit, for example), the volatility of the market is about as same as always.

I try to buy stuff during early weekend when supplies go up and prices go down, and look for things to sell after weekend when supplies go down and prices go up. I did that last week, last month, the year before, as well as two years before--the basic fluctuation pattern hasn't changed much at all, and volatility and randomness has always been a part of the AH game.


You will need to consider market conditions carefully before investing too much time and effort into a particular area.
Sound advice for anyone, crafter or otherwise.

3) Because gil is simply not a ridiculously plentiful thing anymore, the relative stability in value terms is a lot lower for any given method of acquiring it.
If you look at it in absolute terms, sure, gil supply has gone down. If anything though, it makes farming easier, since a lot of items can now be sold to NPC for decent (relative) returns with less hassles, so people have more alternatives than just beehive chips and silk.

Deflation makes some of the newbie drops like some scrolls and insect wings actually worth the inventory space, too.


In the inflation-era economy, you needed to pay attention to markets and choose your targets wisely to make good gil, but you could make decent gil just by putting in effort to most any activity that offers rewards. In this economy, you need to pay attention and choose wisely just to make decent gil.

So, you need to pay attention and choose carefully during inflation periods, and you need to pay attention and choose carefully during deflation periods. How about we just shorten that to "Pay attention to market"?

[LyonheartLakshmi]

The main difference in inflationary vs deflationary market?

Inflationary: buy from NPCs to make gil (e.g. buy lowbie gear, desynth it, and AH results)
Deflationary: sell to NPCs to make gil

[Vyuru]

Finally started to read this and got a few things to say....

Since crystals now sell for 1/5th their price, other items now sell for 1/5th thei-oh wait. No thats not what happened.


I was expecting a little logic in the economy after I came back. But this makes no sense at all.


Things are slightly more complicated than what they taught you in high school economics.

Obviously someone didn't take high school Econ, otherwise they'd know that not everything should deflate equally.

That's like... Basic common knowledge that they told you in Econ 200. Actually, that's something you should have learned in Pre Introductory Economics.

Second, you started off in Bastok, and you are farming wind crystals?! And you complain about the price?!

Even if I did start off in Bastok, it would be an easy matter to farm up for the +1 gear that I felt I needed, which frankly from lvl 5-20 isn't much, just two rings and perhaps a well chosen +1 weapon if I was felt that it would be worth it. HQ armor in general would be worthless at this stage of the game and you would be far wiser to save up gil for some of the Federation/Windurstian armor pieces.

And as far as HQ weapons go... I would say either get Brass Knuckles/Baghnakhs+1 if you really wanted a HQ weapon.... But myself I'd just use CP to buy the Legionnaire's Knuckles and either buy the Bastokan Knuckles since they'll be cheap as the unwanted HQ, or find someone with the crafting skill needed and hope for the Republic Knuckles. Your choice.

You however, aren't bothering to spend time mining, you aren't bothering to spend time doing quests, you aren't bothering spending time to exp/farm in another very lucrative area that is close by you, that is called being lazy. While the purpose of a rant is to let things out, people are not sympathetic when they hear that you aren't trying.

It's like someone crying about how they got shot in the foot only for the other people to find out that this person shot himself in the foot.

You remind me about someone I knew complain about the cost it took to level cooking, at level 5. I asked the fellow what he was making, his response, he was making honey. Now honey requires 4x beehive chips 1x wind crystal to make 4 honey, caps at lvl 12. A stack of beehive chips sold at 12k at that time, and honey hovered in the 3-4k range, not a smart move especially considering that he could be making orange juice for chump change.

Or another person you make me think of is that Drg who thought that activating healing breath with Stoneskin and Blink was the way to go.

Both of them fairly nice fellows, but both of them never put much thought into either their crafting, or soloing, and blamed someone/something else for the lack of results.

You also have not explored the option that if Bastok is so bad, you could travel to Windurst or Sand'Oria to farm/HELM in those areas. And yes, since I did it at level 5 no subjob no less, I fully expect any newb to be able to make those runs. Especially since maps of the areas are posted online now and more information about the zones is available now.

The economy is still as newbie friendly as it ever was, luxury HQ gear that makes no sense to buy however isn't.

[Aeni]

I don't even want to think about returning. My head ... hurts. I should've sold all of those luxury items at the crest of the inflationary period back in 2006 :biggrin:

... ugh.

Anyway, hi to everyone, even if no one remembers. :)