Apparently my problem was being a SCH...

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Just got out of the most hilarious PT on my SCH.

I got kicked for "not using enough MP"

OR

I was accused of being a SCH, really.

PT was SAM, THF, MNK, PLD, WHM, SCH.

Its a level 68 Mire PT, so shooting off nukes is a mixed bag on Imps, but OK on Jnun. So I'm in Light Arts mode for Imp and Dark Arts for Jnun.

Apparently, to the PLD (our witless leader who never cured himself for hate) thinks its a bad thing. Our WHM is pretty witless too, shooting off Cure IV and V even if members only slightly got into the yellow (horror of horrors), at least he knew what Regen was. Oh and none of the melee were /NIN, which by this point is kinda needed for a place like this.

So PLD can't hold hate worth a damn, WHM was always out of MP because he honestly wasted too much on high tier cures. The come in the odd requests "Jnun are weak to fire, enfire us."

:rolleyes: Or I could just not do parlor tricks and save that charge for something useful, such as Ebulliance > Fire III.

So basically, my whole cardinal sin in that PT was refusing to Enfire-ga the PT, being a good DD on Jnun and using my MP effectively on Cures, because I seldom got low. I'm a real monster.

Something is really in the water on my server, I swear.

[dirtyclown]

You know, sometimes being a team player is more effective than soloing with PT members. Anecdotes like these are often fictional, at least to skew the story in the poster's favor. In defense of the "witless" Paladin, it's entirely possible that he was silenced and/or Amnesia'd for a great deal of time. Any job becomes pretty much useless when that happens, and any excuse like "He should have had Echo Drops ffs, it's not my job as a support character to use Silena!" or anything similar is a tad ridiculous. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt this time though.

[Kittyneko]

There are always stupid people, as you probably know. You just found yourself in the unlucky situation where you met a whole party full of those. :(

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Dirty, I can see you love to troll. I think what's really happened here is that you've found a personality too similar to your own and you don't like it one bit.

Given PLD and THF were the only ones that needed Silena in this setup and WHM and I were on that like white on rice for the PLD, that wasn't the reason. His "reason" was "I don't have a RDM."

[dirtyclown]

Dirty, I can see you love to troll. I think what's really happened here is that you've found a personality too similar to your own and you don't like it one bit.

Given PLD was the only one that needed Silena in this setup and WHM and I were on that like white on rice, that wasn't the reason. His "reason" was "I don't have a RDM."

I haven't started to troll yet, I'm even giving you the benefit of the doubt on this one. Actually, I used to have a great deal of respect for you, believe it or not. We hurt the ones we love, amirite?

If his reasoning really was the lack of a RDM, then he needs to GTFO. We can get more than 3mp/tick without outside assistance from another player, the lack of any job AIDS isn't an excuse anymore.

[MrMageo]

I was accused of being a SCH, really.


From what your saying it sounds like you were accused of not being a SCH.

If I group with a SCH I expect them to be using AoE enspells, AoE Stoneskin, AoE Phalanx before they use nukes or cure, Especially if there is a WHM present.

Judging from your past comments on what you refuse to do on your other jobs (COR: Not using Corsair roll, RNG: Not Pulling, BRD: Not using Madrigal). Sounds to me like they replaced the useless SCH. (Which I don't blame them for doing)

When you play the job as a RDM/WHM and don't have refresh your just wasting a party slot.

Oh and none of the melee were /NIN, which by this point is kinda needed for a place like this.

Not really, infact Im still pretty sure most melee still went /war here because of the whole silence thing and AoE spam (which makes for a pretty costly 3-4 levels). TBH I don't even remember having a Ninja tank through my time in the mire PLD only.

Our WHM is pretty witless too, shooting off Cure IV and V even if members only slightly got into the yellow (horror of horrors), at least he knew what Regen was

I mean what exactly were you curing then?

Or I could just not do parlor tricks and save that charge for something useful, such as Ebulliance > Fire III.

AoE Stoneskin/Phalanx/Enspells/Silena arent as useful >.> please. Stineskin alone would save your WHM MP, Phalanx would save your WHM MP and Enspells would have the dd's hitting up more killing a little faster saving the WHM MP.

being a good DD on Jnun and using my MP effectively on Cures, because I seldom got low. I'm a real monster.

If they wanted a good DD on Jnun they'd have brought a BLM. If they wanted someone who could cure well they'd have brought a WHM (oh they did). You were brought in as a support job an you didn't thats why your a monster.


All in all it sounds like your into one of your cry's for attention again. I offer no sympathy for you for being lazy and halfassing your job. If you don't offer what your invited for then you are usless. SCH can nuke on its own time or with the BLM's in your situation your their as a support role, then again judging how you play your COR and BRD id say you probly don't know what that means.



By the way..... Your using the word witless wrong to describe the PLD and WHM.

[IfritnoItazura]

From what your saying it sounds like you were accused of not being a SCH.

If I group with a SCH I expect them to be using AoE enspells, AoE Stoneskin, AoE Phalanx before they use nukes or cure, Especially if there is a WHM present.

Judging from your past comments on what you refuse to do on your other jobs (COR: Not using Corsair roll, RNG: Not Pulling, BRD: Not using Madrigal). Sounds to me like they replaced the useless SCH. (Which I don't blame them for doing)

When you play the job as a RDM/WHM and don't have refresh your just wasting a party slot.



Not really, infact Im still pretty sure most melee still went /war here because of the whole silence thing and AoE spam (which makes for a pretty costly 3-4 levels). TBH I don't even remember having a Ninja tank through my time in the mire PLD only.



I mean what exactly were you curing then?



AoE Stoneskin/Phalanx/Enspells/Silena arent as useful >.> please. Stineskin alone would save your WHM MP, Phalanx would save your WHM MP and Enspells would have the dd's hitting up more killing a little faster saving the WHM MP.



If they wanted a good DD on Jnun they'd have brought a BLM. If they wanted someone who could cure well they'd have brought a WHM (oh they did). You were brought in as a support job an you didn't thats why your a monster.


All in all it sounds like your into one of your cry's for attention again. I offer no sympathy for you for being lazy and halfassing your job. If you don't offer what your invited for then you are usless. SCH can nuke on its own time or with the BLM's in your situation your their as a support role, then again judging how you play your COR and BRD id say you probly don't know what that means.



By the way..... Your using the word witless wrong to describe the PLD and WHM.
Nearly spit out my coffee, and almost clicked the "Thanks" button for the humor. Almost.

"AoE Phalanx before [SCHs] use nukes or cure" is the advice of the day? :rofl:

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Judging from your past comments on what you refuse to do on your other jobs (COR: Not using Corsair roll, RNG: Not Pulling, BRD: Not using Madrigal). Sounds to me like they replaced the useless SCH. (Which I don't blame them for doing)

Classic MrMageo post here.

I'm not seeing the problem with not using enspells - its a waste of a strategem and the MP to cast it. Why use the Enspells as a novelty for melee epeen when I can use a Strategem charge toward useful things? Ebulliance > Fire III is going to do 500 to 600+ damage to a Jnun and Enfire is going to let melees proc may 3-12 damage per hit. The Nuke damage will eclipse the Enspell damage during the fight, hence, the enspell is pointless.

And what if I did need to shift to Light Arts strategems for Accession or Rapture? Imps spam silence, I can AoE Silena. I'd need the extra charge to hit Addendum: White before going to Accession. True, I could go /WHM to get around that at this level, but I'd lose access to Fast Cast, Gravity and Phalanx in the process, which I like to toss out as needed. I have to sit here and think about how to use my Strategem charges on the basis of subjob, WHM and BLM have less to offer me in the 68+ world. So I'm probably not going to Rapture any cure spells until I've been in Light Arts for a few minutes. If its a string of imps, that's fine, but if the next string of pulls is Jnun, there's no reason to stay in Light Arts if I can go Dark Arts and keep the chains rolling in.

As for your other comments:


There is no point to using COR Roll in most situations, I tend to roll it in manaburns because you don't need Evoker's + Wizards' Roll there and BRD + COR PTs because BRD can put up a comprable buff I drop in favor of Corsair's Roll. I'll do it for trios and farming PTs. That's all I'll use it for. Otherwise Sanction, Sigil and EXP bands are that way ->
I have and will pull as a RNG, but never in a merit situation because it is pointless and evident with all the BRDs, THFs and CORs capable of outpulling me with lower delay skills and weapons. At that point, if you're going to look at me to pull, I'll say you're just as good a puller as I am. Because you are.
Accuracy is a melee's problem - this has been a fact of life since the advent of sushi. If I have to do Madrigal/Hunter's in an EXP setting, that speaks about the quality of whom I'm PTing with. Unless we're fighting THF mobs, accuracy buffs shouldn't be neccessary in most 40+ EXP PTs. Endgame mobs, go ahead and use Prelude/Madrigal/Hunter's, that's fair game because mob evasion has reached more absurd levels. Otherwise, buy a sushi from by bazaar, its not my problem your gear stinks.

[dirtyclown]

Relevant to this thread.

YouTube - Nazareth - Love Hurts

[MrMageo]

Lets see 103 MP used for fire 3 or 38 for Phalanx, 52 for stoneskin, and 25-? for 109 MP you lose 6 MP the whm saves a couple 100 MP, you have just incresed the chain, "Good Job"



You get 3 charges at this level if I am not mistaken. on 1:20 recast timers. It just so happens That Phalanx/stoneskin/enspells all last longer than this. Face it you didnt provide what your party wanted and you got cut because of it. Welcome to the life of being a expendable job.

It is true BLM has no real use here (so why are you pretending to be a blm?). To say WHM has no real role here slap yourself. WHM always has a spot if a RDM can't be found. If anyone in your party didnt have a spot there it was the SCH who thought he was being more usefull casting nukes instead of party buffs. (but the group remedied that didnt they.) Ask yourself why BLM's aren't invited to ToAU parties, then ask yourself why SCH's are, Ill give you a hint it's not for their nukes.

Pretty much you failed at your job today, its all right but to come on here and bash a whole party because you didnt get what you want is pretty typical of you. Perhaps you should look into low man things or search comment "Support Role no Thanks Nukes Yes Please".

Typical Mr Mageo post indeed, why because I am as usual sick of seeing you posting your whiney threads about how other people suck and don't do their job's right when you seldom don't do what is best for your party.

Madrigal is useful in times that party accuracy is low. If in a meripo and one person seems to be taking all the damage it usually means the other melee are not keeping up and could use a jolt of accuracy. Whats better keeping a respectable chain or bowing out early because the healer is busy keeping the accurate melee alive. It is your problem, you have the tools to fix it.

It would be like me saying oh I don't need to refresh anyone because they can go out and buy yaguado drinks, if they have MP issues its not my problem.

COR roll is acceptable alot more than you claim infact whenever I group with a cor he/she casts it no questions asked, 1 status buff and cor roll. Try breaking 30K without it.

You seem to be going back on your comments you made on RNG, Im sure I could dig up the page in the pet peeves thread where it first came up where you said, I dont play ranger to pull I play it to DD. I don't party with people if they want me to pull thats why I have no pulling in my serach if they can't read it it is not my problem.

Face BBQ you made this post because you want someone to back you up and say hey ya SCH's can nuke you shouldnt have gotten booted. Well BLM's nuke too and If I wanted someone nuking things at that level then I would invite one of them AM> anything SCH has to offer at that level.

You got lazy no big deal we have all gotten lazy but like I said you don't need to come here and drag people through mud because you did a bad job today, take it with a grain of salt and go find another party, or go solo.


*EDIT* I just wanted to add why would SAM and MNK go /NIN at this level? just curious.

[Skoal]

Give me some names of these ppl you party with. How is enfire damage based off of for SCH?

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

As of the March update, AoE Espells base damage is based on the enhancing skill of the caster and not the target recieving the effect. The magic accuracy of any enspell is determined by which day of the week you use it, so if you're on Firesday, Enfire would generally be more accurate, but mob weakness should also be considered.

I will say there are times I'm willing to use enspells, but given that situation where my duties could go back and forth, I didn't see much point when I could just do more damage with an Ebullianced nuke instead.

After all, there's no hard rule that says I can't Cure from Dark Arts, I just end up spending a tad more more MP and casting longer to do so. Not like I'm slowing anything down by nuking a Jnun, though, if anything, I'm speeding things up.

And Skoal, if you really want to know, I'll tell you in PM later.

[MrMageo]

It is based Off of Enhancing magic which at level 68 and the AF peice for +15 skill puts you at 221 (B) + 15 for 236 (about A-) putting that into the formula for enspells.

Enspells when Enhancing > 150: (Enhancing / 20) + 5

(236/20) + 5 = 16.8 Damage.

Jnun are weak to enfire meaning youll be giving + 16 damage usually about 80% of the time

(not to mention you can provide AoE weather if you wish for a 10% boost to
enspells)

Its a little more than BBQ gives it credit for and last a good chuck of time. +32 from the MNK + 32 from the THF, + 16 From the SAM, +16 from the PLD or 96 bonus damage. Each unresisted cycle. Factor in a 20% resist to that.

We will just assume the average delay for all members is 5 seconds (some more some less acctually its pretty well middle ground with PLD/THF around 3 seconds and MNK/SAM around 7 seconds)

3 minutes of enspell time

180/5 = 36 attacks with enspell up

36*96 = 3465 damage from enspells over a 3 minute period. There may be more resists but even hitting at 8 damage gives you

36*8 = 288 damage

you figure 20% of your 36 hits will be resisted

36/1.20 = 30 sucsesful attacks unresisted 6 resists

30*96 = 2880
6*8 = 48

= 2928 damage for 28 MP

or

EB+fire 3 for 600 damage (benefit of doubt)

2928/600 = 4-5

4*103 = 412 mp spent
5*103 = 515 mp spent

Now tell me which is more efficient for MP cost for production

Oh and as far as I can tell the accuracy is toataly depended on mob weakness not weather or day of the weak, they are solely for the Damage bonus. (1 weather 10%, 2x weather 20%, day 10%)

Pretty sure you would have been better off casting enfire than toying around with nukes.

[Silent Howler]

From what your saying it sounds like you were accused of not being a SCH.

If I group with a SCH I expect them to be using AoE enspells, AoE Stoneskin, AoE Phalanx before they use nukes or cure, Especially if there is a WHM present.

Judging from your past comments on what you refuse to do on your other jobs (COR: Not using Corsair roll, RNG: Not Pulling, BRD: Not using Madrigal). Sounds to me like they replaced the useless SCH. (Which I don't blame them for doing)

When you play the job as a RDM/WHM and don't have refresh your just wasting a party slot.



Not really, infact Im still pretty sure most melee still went /war here because of the whole silence thing and AoE spam (which makes for a pretty costly 3-4 levels). TBH I don't even remember having a Ninja tank through my time in the mire PLD only.



I mean what exactly were you curing then?



AoE Stoneskin/Phalanx/Enspells/Silena arent as useful >.> please. Stineskin alone would save your WHM MP, Phalanx would save your WHM MP and Enspells would have the dd's hitting up more killing a little faster saving the WHM MP.



If they wanted a good DD on Jnun they'd have brought a BLM. If they wanted someone who could cure well they'd have brought a WHM (oh they did). You were brought in as a support job an you didn't thats why your a monster.


All in all it sounds like your into one of your cry's for attention again. I offer no sympathy for you for being lazy and halfassing your job. If you don't offer what your invited for then you are usless. SCH can nuke on its own time or with the BLM's in your situation your their as a support role, then again judging how you play your COR and BRD id say you probly don't know what that means.



By the way..... Your using the word witless wrong to describe the PLD and WHM.

Honestly, this is one of the most rediculous posts I've seem from Mageo.

[Nuriko]

I think the point to not pulling on RNG was you're already racking up a lot of damage, who needs the extra hate from pulling? As for enspells, they are MUCH weaker than MrMageo thinks without native skill on the recipients.

[MrMageo]

The skill for recipients doesnt matter anymore its entirely based of the caster skill. (As of March 10/08 update.) Taking that into consideration SCH can make their Enspells as strong as a RDM even @ lvl 75.

Also to BBQ your abilities shouldnt have been going back and forth that much, Light Arts only save for the occasional nuke which take a few seconds to go then right back to light arts. Dark arts offers you nothing of use otherwise in this situation. (Unless you were enfeebling)

[Vyuru]

I have to question if Mageo has any experience in that sort of party.

Considering that that happens to be fairly similar to my favorite party setup, I do.

Frankly alot hinges on the Whm in those parties, and the tank to a certain extent. I've never partied with a Pld who didn't use their magic before, so that's a new one to me. I'm not going to fault a Sch who stays more on the defensive due to a poor overcuring Whm. Juggling mp so that you and the Whm are not both out of mp at the same time takes precedence over giving luxury buffs.

And in general, unless the Sam had a Soboro, and party members were Hasted and all that, I'd say that Enfire would be worthless.

And to be honest I'm surprised you went out of Light Arts mode, I'd be scared of getting hit by Amnesia at a bad time.

Madrigal is useful in times that party accuracy is low. If in a meripo and one person seems to be taking all the damage it usually means the other melee are not keeping up and could use a jolt of accuracy.

I don't care if they are bards, I will kick them if they give us even one +Acc song. I damn well expect the melee to have the accuracy covered on their end by the time of merit parties. If they don't, then they are gimp, simple as that. Any one hander will be eating sushi and wearing some +acc gear. Any two hander will not need any form of +acc food or songs due to the two handed updates, gear, and abilities. Drg from +acc traits, Drk through absorbs, and Sam through Hasso. Any two hander can sub Sam for additional accuracy.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

I have to question if Mageo has any experience in that sort of party.

Considering that that happens to be fairly similar to my favorite party setup, I do.

Frankly alot hinges on the Whm in those parties, and the tank to a certain extent. I've never partied with a Pld who didn't use their magic before, so that's a new one to me. I'm not going to fault a Sch who stays more on the defensive due to a poor overcuring Whm. Juggling mp so that you and the Whm are not both out of mp at the same time takes precedence over giving luxury buffs.

And in general, unless the Sam had a Soboro, and party members were Hasted and all that, I'd say that Enfire would be worthless.

And to be honest I'm surprised you went out of Light Arts mode, I'd be scared of getting hit by Amnesia at a bad time.

I really had to horde MP because of the WHM being cure-happy. My attitude as always been "I'm here to keep you alive, not healthy. Healthy is your problem." I don't top off your HP every chance I get. WHM never had enough MP to spare on Haste because he was impulsive about cures.

As for amnesia, RNG and COR taught me to keep my distance. COR especially since every buff is a JA. I know where the line is and I try to avoid crossing it with imps. Thankfully, imps will be a thing of the past soon.


I don't care if they are bards, I will kick them if they give us even one +Acc song. I damn well expect the melee to have the accuracy covered on their end by the time of merit parties. If they don't, then they are gimp, simple as that. Any one hander will be eating sushi and wearing some +acc gear. Any two hander will not need any form of +acc food or songs due to the two handed updates, gear, and abilities. Drg from +acc traits, Drk through absorbs, and Sam through Hasso. Any two hander can sub Sam for additional accuracy.

I think your perspective and mine have a reason beyond that logic.

We are/were DRGs.

When I levelled DRG in the RoZ/CoP days, we were completely rejected from PTs if we didn't have things like Sniper Rings, Life belt, Valkyrie's Mask and this was before Sushi was added - that came about the middle of CoP. Some people just don't know how very elitist parties were back then.

So color me really unsympathetic to the people who can't land anything as a melee. I had to bust my balls to get a PT back as a DRG once and the DEX x2 ring, full AF, purple-pride DRGs were just as much of a disease back then as they are now.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyway, on to my next PT.

This was a good PT.

Setup was PLD, THF, PUP, BLM, SMN, SCH versus MJSP Puks.

Only people the whole PT to toss out a cures were the PLD and I. Main healed just fine even after Sanction Refresh wore. Never got below 200 MP whole time and chains were steady. I kept up a mix of Regen II, SS and Phalanx up most of the time.

But this PT had a different superstion, they told me not to Enspell, since it "gave the mob TP." LOL.

Maybe I just detest working with "the specialist" on healing. I seem to work OK with RDMs, but whenever I'm setup and asked to do the same thing a WHM is doing, I somewhat resent that because I can do that just as good, if not better than most WHMs do it. If I'm with a WHM, I prefer to go into BLM mode rather than play healer.

[Shrayn_lolsam]

I think I better find a new forum to read, really, this one is full of ignortant people. :/

[Murphie]

Hey!

[Kittyneko]

I think I better find a new forum to read, really, this one is full of ignortant people. :/

I'm sorry you feel this way, Shrayn_lolsam. We're not forcing you to stay on this forum. However, I've personally felt that this the forum has the most mature and best moderated(not creditting myself) content, ever since I've joined here. When people do not agree with your opinion, you can discuss about it or not. Either way, there will always be people who might be against your opinion if you share it in a public situation.

[Shrayn_lolsam]

People here are mature, some times. If you think maturity = debate without insults, your wrong. You guys need to stop bickering and learn to accept peoples opinion instead of calling eachother idiots, or ranting about how much their opinion sucks. This is FAR from the most mature forum iv seen, but it was always relaxed. Now all I see is people trying to come up with funny/sarcastic ways to get a "Thanks", which is done very rudely most of the time. I'm not saying everyone on here is an immature attention seeker, but theres a few that needs to grow up. Best of luck everyone /wave

[Murphie]

You've only been here a few months. I think it's a bit early to complain about how things "always" were.

But we totally have people who are immature attention seekers.

[Shrayn_lolsam]

Iv been here for at least a year just reading posts, I became a member when I finally decided to post something.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

I've actually decided as of today that those guys that actually went on the ignore list?

Yeah, I'm just gonna really ignore them.

Please don't feed the Mageo and the Feba.

[Shrayn_lolsam]

You Are one of thoughs attention seekers, BBQ

[Murphie]

ITT Shrayn_lolsam tells us what s/he thinks!

[WovenDarkness]

If I pulled up stakes, I'd be forced to move to......?

[Saren]

Maybe I just detest working with "the specialist" on healing. I seem to work OK with RDMs, but whenever I'm setup and asked to do the same thing a WHM is doing, I somewhat resent that because I can do that just as good, if not better than most WHMs do it. If I'm with a WHM, I prefer to go into BLM mode rather than play healer.

Don't make it about whm the job.

You had a bad whm. I hate those panic 200HP cure 5 they won't listen if you tell them they are doing a bad job because "I'm keeping people at full health!" and their running out of mp is always someone elses fault or "zomg you can't do above chain 4, I need to rest mp". Whm and sch can work very well together if you have decent people behind both jobs.

I mean I get the feeling, I resent having a rdm in an exp party most of the time because most of the rdms I've partied with in pickup groups have been ruddy awful or decide to be lazy because I'm there. For example, I had a merit party at Mamool Ja staging point with a rdm where I was doing the link handling and sleeping the pets because the rdm just didn't seem to see the need. I've had the odd good one though (one who knows their job, talks to you and watches what's going on) and when you do get a good one and you are against the right mobs, rdm and whm together can be wonderful.

[MrMageo]

I have to question if Mageo has any experience in that sort of party.

Acctually I leveled through their breifly for about 2 levels before I went and campaigned. Our static set up was PLD/WAR, THF/NIN, WHM/SMN, SAM/THF, WAR/SAM, RDM/WHM. We never had a problem once while we were there. We had hate control out the ass, curing, and support with plenty of damage to go around.


To BBQ:

Before you head into your little baby carriage because I question your ability today I have a couple last questions I would like straight answers on.

If you were trying to conserve MP, why were you nuking?

- 4 melee 1 DW 1 H2H equalling a total of 6 attacks per cycle minimum as I showed on the last page even with a 20% resist rate will do more than you can with 4 nukes. Basically you just wasted 400-500 MP to match damage a 26 MP spell could do for your group.

If the WHM was curring so much, what exactly were you curring?

- Ill concede that the WHM probably burned MP pretty quick but still for about 600 MP you arent needed to cure, and if you are your probably killing the WHM's regens.

If you want to save MP why not use stoneskin and phalanx. At this level you SS will absorb nearly 300 damage or about 3 attacks per person (or 1 Cure 3 and a little bit extra). Phalanx would absorb about 18-20 damage per person per attack, causing SS to last possibly 4 hits. Making you save mp for a cure 4.


TBH if you weigh your options SS/Phalanx/Enspells are the way to go in terms of efficiency with MP. If that was truly a party issue then you failed at it and deserved to be booted.

Is your PLD to blame not overly, If the WHM was curring as much as you claim and you were curing as much as you claim then I imagine most people were being over cured at a big MP expense.

It sounds like you had a entire backline breakdown, and you seemed to want to flex you muscle as a SCH instead of supporting your own party like you should have.



It is funny isnt it BBQ, I make a post of how I am able to main heal a meripo as RDM/DNC, and I must suck because you assume I don't do my job. Yet I've never been booted because of it and have yet to cause a major downfall to EXP. Here you are basically telling us all you failed in your duties as a support job, I ask you a few questions and you tuck tail and run.

You wanted attention and I gave you some, so back up your story a little better with some real details of how you didnt hurt your party. As far as I can tell it appears you were the main cause of your own problems.

Does it hurt BBQ when the shoe is on the other foot? How many times have you put someone on their heels because of something they didnt like and chalked it up to being their fault. You have got to be the biggest hypocrit on these forums. So get back to me BBQ tell me why it was better to spend 400-500 MP on 4-5 nukes, that would have been damaged on par by enspell for 26. Tell me why spending 400-500 on nukes saved more MP then casting SS and Phalanx would have. I wan't some real answers too. None of the, well the whm was over curing, or my nukes hit for 600, because either way as a support job its your duty to fix those problems, you have the tools.

Basically it was a nice epic fail, learn your lesson move on and play a support role.

(Probably why you quit RDM, and probably why you'll give up on sch.)


Shrayn I am sorry for being rude like this, but frankley im tired of BBQ pretending BBQ is perfect. So I appologize if I made you uncomfortable on the forums, please forgive me.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

ITT Shrayn_lolsam tells us what s/he thinks!

I'm still oblivious as to what his derail has to do with the topic. He's free to think what he wants about me, but I take exception to the notion I crave attention nonetheless. Anyone who says that about me really doesn't know me very well.

Don't make it about whm the job.

You had a bad whm. I hate those panic 200HP cure 5 they won't listen if you tell them they are doing a bad job because "I'm keeping people at full health!" and their running out of mp is always someone elses fault or "zomg you can't do above chain 4, I need to rest mp". Whm and sch can work very well together if you have decent people behind both jobs.

I mean I get the feeling, I resent having a rdm in an exp party most of the time because most of the rdms I've partied with in pickup groups have been ruddy awful or decide to be lazy because I'm there. For example, I had a merit party at Mamool Ja staging point with a rdm where I was doing the link handling and sleeping the pets because the rdm just didn't seem to see the need. I've had the odd good one though (one who knows their job, talks to you and watches what's going on) and when you do get a good one and you are against the right mobs, rdm and whm together can be wonderful.

Oh its not really about the WHM job. I'm just extremely efficiency minded and dislike redudancy or awkward/mismatched situations. Additionally, I don't respond well to being ordered around or barked at when I'm already in the situation. The more you do it, the less I'm going to be inclined to help you, much less be polite to you.

WHM and the others didn't even want a part of the argument, which pretty much showed the leader was the only one with a problem. The wasn't really anything amiss about the PT to the rest of us, leader just wanted to be a spaz I guess.

[dirtyclown]

I've read this over a couple times and here's what I'm gathering. Dave decides that he'd rather increase his own damage output rather than play support, assuming that the Paladin and White mage had it locked down. White mage overcures, Paladin whines about not having a refresh battery, Dave simply laughs at them and nukes. The party gets angry that Dave is trying to be a Black mage, nobody's really communicating very well with each other, and everyone involved pretty much fails in all areas save maybe the DDs. We have no proof that your paraphrased quote is true, so the next best guess is that you were probably booted for not using your MP efficiently, as opposed to "not enough". We all have a tendency to skew things in our favor when it comes to this sort of thing. If I were the tank, both you and the White mage would be out on your asses even if I was forced to go do campaigns for exp. Then again, I'm not inclined to bitch when my PT lacks a Red mage, but that's beside the point.

[Karinya]

Hold on... If the PLD was the leader, what was he doing complaining about what jobs were/were not in the party? Who did he think *built* the party? (Unless he inherited it from an earlier leader who left mid-party; I know it pisses me off when someone sticks me with leadership of some half-assed jumble of jobs).

In any case, in a mire pt the pld should have 2 mp/tick guaranteed (unless he's sitting on so many mp sanction isn't ticking), more if he can satisfy parade gorget latent, rest or vermy swap between fights (unlikely in mire, there isn't much of a "between fights"). Setting aside time when he's silenced, that should leave considerable MP for curing. However, if the whm was overcuring that much it might explain why the PLD wasn't. I hate wasting my MP simul-curing - if mine doesn't land first I don't even get any hate, and either way, *someone's* MP is down the drain. If you can't convince the whm to give you some room to work with then you might as well just flash.

Ebullience seems like a bad deal to me outside of magic bursts, compared to Parsimony. But then, I haven't gotten to the level to use it yet. Am I missing something? It looks like the damage boost is not that big compared to cutting the MP cost in half, which allows you to throw a lot more nukes. Unless you have big numbers fever, what's the attraction of Ebullience?

P.S.
Thankfully, imps will be a thing of the past soon.
What makes you think that?

[Taskmage]

What ... the ... fugg ... I thanked dirtyclown.

I haven't fought VT-ITs with enspell since the accuracy change, but remembering what resistant bastards imps are, I doubt that enspell would be hitting for full damage 80% of the time. On the other hand, Ebullience + Fire III on the Jnun seems like a dubious use of mp also, not because of mp efficiency or any such thing, but because Jnun are the fluff chain filler in Caedarva. Additional damage shouldn't have been needed. Jnun were the mobs that I'd take a knee for as a rdm, since I knew the party could survive and keep the chain without any support from me.

Assuming the pld and whm were as bad as you say, I think staying in Addendum White and AoEing buffs would've been the best use of strategems. You can't fix the whm but you can largely mitigate the pld with stoneskin and phalanx.

Disclaimer: I'm not a scholar.

[dirtyclown]

What ... the ... fugg ... I thanked dirtyclown.

Next thing you know, IceMage and I will be getting along...Ok, maybe not that, but stranger things have happened, right?

[Celeal]

Well.... for PLD/WAR under Imps's Amnesia, basically Cure + Flash is the first reliable hate tool, sword swing comes second (for hybrid setup), third comes from Job Ability or WS for entry point of each battle. If done properly, the PLD/WAR in Imps camp should be the *main healer* (main curer), while the main healer should prioritize on Silena and Haste, and dump Cures which PLD cannot cover, like big nukes or sleepaga from the Imps.

[TheGrandMom]

I've read this over a couple times and here's what I'm gathering. Dave decides that he'd rather increase his own damage output rather than play support, assuming that the Paladin and White mage had it locked down. White mage overcures, Paladin whines about not having a refresh battery, Dave simply laughs at them and nukes. The party gets angry that Dave is trying to be a Black mage, nobody's really communicating very well with each other, and everyone involved pretty much fails in all areas save maybe the DDs. We have no proof that your paraphrased quote is true, so the next best guess is that you were probably booted for not using your MP efficiently, as opposed to "not enough". We all have a tendency to skew things in our favor when it comes to this sort of thing. If I were the tank, both you and the White mage would be out on your asses even if I was forced to go do campaigns for exp. Then again, I'm not inclined to bitch when my PT lacks a Red mage, but that's beside the point.

Oh lord, this thread made my day. LOL I think I laughed at this post till my sides ached!

What ... the ... fugg ... I thanked dirtyclown.

I'll get your meds for you....wait I'll get you mine, they're stronger. :P

I haven't fought VT-ITs with enspell since the accuracy change, but remembering what resistant bastards imps are, I doubt that enspell would be hitting for full damage 80% of the time. On the other hand, Ebullience + Fire III on the Jnun seems like a dubious use of mp also, not because of mp efficiency or any such thing, but because Jnun are the fluff chain filler in Caedarva. Additional damage shouldn't have been needed. Jnun were the mobs that I'd take a knee for as a rdm, since I knew the party could survive and keep the chain without any support from me.

Assuming the pld and whm were as bad as you say, I think staying in Addendum White and AoEing buffs would've been the best use of strategems. You can't fix the whm but you can largely mitigate the pld with stoneskin and phalanx.

Disclaimer: I'm not a scholar.

I totally agree.

Next thing you know, IceMage and I will be getting along...Ok, maybe not that, but stranger things have happened, right?

<cue music> Dreamer...nothing but a dreamer...

:P

[Malacite]

I think the point to not pulling on RNG was you're already racking up a lot of damage, who needs the extra hate from pulling? As for enspells, they are MUCH weaker than MrMageo thinks without native skill on the recipients.

That, and RNG has E rated evasion and thus has to rely on Shadows where as a THF will have A+ on top of 4 traits and well, if they get hit it's their problem >_>

[Jensen]

i may have a bias due to being a DNC but i know i hate it when SCH use enspells and half the partys im in they are told not to do it at all because it over rights sambas which are alot more useful(at least in my eyes) and tbh i Would pull before a rng did anyday i even forced a rnger to let me pull once because they ate my tp and mages mp because of the eva issue they have while i had B+ with 3 traits to it.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Assuming the pld and whm were as bad as you say, I think staying in Addendum White and AoEing buffs would've been the best use of strategems. You can't fix the whm but you can largely mitigate the pld with stoneskin and phalanx.

Well, I'd agree, but what good does the mitigation do when the PLD makes no genuine effort to tank to start with? I still don't think running into AoE range constantly would have been a great idea since Amnesia would have knocked out a subsequent Strategem for a signifigant period of time. Silence wasn't an issue, I just bring drops for that. I could have gotten Phalanx off a lot, probably, but I have doubts about Stoneskin since the casting time is quite a bit longer.

At any rate it was the first PT I really ever had problems with since taking up the job. I've had PTs with weak melees, but that's never as bad as a weak healer or tank.

i may have a bias due to being a DNC but i know i hate it when SCH use enspells and half the partys im in they are told not to do it at all because it over rights sambas which are alot more useful(at least in my eyes) and tbh i Would pull before a rng did anyday i even forced a rnger to let me pull once because they ate my tp and mages mp because of the eva issue they have while i had B+ with 3 traits to it.

Yeah, SCH and DNC don't mesh on proc effects. I tend to see Enspells as novelty unless the mob has a weakness to a specific element and the matching day happens to be going on. I don't use then with a DNC present. I'd only disagree about Sambas in the case of Haste Samba, which is pretty weak, Drain and Aspir Samba would be more worthwhile.

[IfritnoItazura]

En-spell and fast hitting melees seem like a perfect fit, though; if your line up has NIN, MNK, THF, it just may be worth the Stratagem. On the other hand, Imps have so little HP, I wouldn't bother with that; save that for something with a bit more life bar, like Hilltrolls and Abraxas/Tavnazian Ram.

Stoneskin may be worth risking Amnesia for, in a party without RDM to silence Imps. Thundaga II followed by Firaga II followed by Thundaga II isn't very good for mages' MP flow.

Oh, and I'd use SCH/WHM over SCH/RDM for Imps; it'd be silly not to have access to Silena and Erase at all times, and have to fiddle with Stratagems just to use those spells. Not sure if I'd nuke the Jnuns or anything without Parsimony, especially in a party where the main healer mismanage his MP consistently. May sound a bit strange, but the more wasteful the healer is with his MP, the more important it is for the backup healer to keep an MP reserve, IMO.

[Karinya]

En-spell and fast hitting melees seem like a perfect fit, though; if your line up has NIN, MNK, THF, it just may be worth the Stratagem. On the other hand, Imps have so little HP, I wouldn't bother with that; save that for something with a bit more life bar, like Hilltrolls and Abraxas/Tavnazian Ram.
Which are also targets where you won't need to worry much about walking into aoe range to pull off the accession+self-only buff. This doesn't have much relevance to a mire party though.

Stoneskin may be worth risking Amnesia for, in a party without RDM to silence Imps. Thundaga II followed by Firaga II followed by Thundaga II isn't very good for mages' MP flow.
Even RDM are often going to fail to silence imps - the little bastards are as bad as ahriman. If not for the resist rate you might as well have silenced them yourself, with either /whm or /rdm. Stunning is more reliable, if you have access to it. (SCH/DRK? Well, not at 68, anyway.)

I don't think one stoneskin would stop that kind of aoe spam anyway.

In any case, you can accession + cure from a distance, I think, or if you're /whm, just curaga (or penury + curaga, or rapture + curaga, or accession + regen2...) and avoid getting into amnesia/silence range. Multiple people getting hit doesn't have to be bad for MP, if you know how to deal with it efficiently.

None of those methods have the insane casting time of accession+stoneskin, which you almost can't get off at all without also using celerity (and then for a sub-70 you're talking 2:40 worth of stratagems).

Oh, and I'd use SCH/WHM over SCH/RDM for Imps; it'd be silly not to have access to Silena and Erase at all times, and have to fiddle with Stratagems just to use those spells.
Well then, obviously you wouldn't be enspelling anyone, would you? I'd probably agree, except I don't see what use Erase would be (AFAIK, amnesia is not erasable). But definitely (IMO) addendum:white does not remove the usefulness of /whm as a source of na spells. It just means you have *some* access to them even when you're not /whm.
Not sure if I'd nuke the Jnuns or anything without Parsimony, especially in a party where the main healer mismanage his MP consistently. May sound a bit strange, but the more wasteful the healer is with his MP, the more important it is for the backup healer to keep an MP reserve, IMO.
I don't think it's strange at all; when there's only one healer you can trust, that healer had better be ready for trouble (like an imp popping in your face during a fight and resisting sleep).

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

En-spell and fast hitting melees seem like a perfect fit, though; if your line up has NIN, MNK, THF, it just may be worth the Stratagem. On the other hand, Imps have so little HP, I wouldn't bother with that; save that for something with a bit more life bar, like Hilltrolls and Abraxas/Tavnazian Ram.

Given there was a stead mix of imp and Jnun in this PT, I just didn't see it as worth it at all. Jnun were far too infrequent and Imps too resistant to magic to make it worth it.

Stoneskin may be worth risking Amnesia for, in a party without RDM to silence Imps. Thundaga II followed by Firaga II followed by Thundaga II isn't very good for mages' MP flow.

Oh I'm not arguing that it isn't worth in general. It just wasn't worth it in this PT because I had no idea where the hate would go next. Not knowing if that imp is going to stay on the PLD or not is a major factor for me. Accession buffs pull a nice amount of hate, I can usually watch and know when to go, but when no hate tools are being used, i can't even be sure that the WHM won't pull hate before I will.

Also, I can pop Accession before I run into AoE range, so that's not a major problem, its just the frustration of getting silenced along the way.

If everyone gets silenced and amnesia because the tank never tried to hold hate, thats a bad place to be. Inevitably, people will run out of echo drops in this camp.

Oh, and I'd use SCH/WHM over SCH/RDM for Imps; it'd be silly not to have access to Silena and Erase at all times, and have to fiddle with Stratagems just to use those spells. Not sure if I'd nuke the Jnuns or anything without Parsimony, especially in a party where the main healer mismanage his MP consistently. May sound a bit strange, but the more wasteful the healer is with his MP, the more important it is for the backup healer to keep an MP reserve, IMO.

It might have been better at 68, yeah, at 70, Strategems are plentiful and recharge quickly enough you'll usually have time to spare an Addendum White if you're in a situation you need to switch, by the same token, I have Erase from Addendum White and Dispel from /RDM without having to activate Addendum Black. If I'm in Addendum White most of the time, I feel RDM is the better choice so I have more options.

IF I'm the main healer, nuking isn't a priority for me, no matter how good I might nuke.

[MrMageo]

You werent invited for free nuking.
You werent invited to main heal

You were main support, that means supporting the party.


In regards to your SS comment. If the MOB is bouncing around alot all the more reason to have stoneskin up, regardless if you can predict where it is bouncing next. If the whm pulls hate who cares they should have SS up anyhow to take a couple hits.

Just admit you made an error and move on, everyone can see it wasnt just the party you were in, you caused problems too. Learn from your mistake and move on, instead of trying to defend your position of doing a bad job.
______________________________
That, and RNG has E rated evasion and thus has to rely on Shadows where as a THF will have A+ on top of 4 traits and well, if they get hit it's their problem >_>


Acctually I put this because BBQ said a few months ago he dosent pull on RNG because it isnt what the job was meant to do. When Selphie and I tried to say yes RNG is designed to pull thats why it has a ranged attack BBQ went on his typical defensve.

[Silent Howler]

You werent invited for free nuking.
You werent invited to main heal

You were main support, that means supporting the party.
Quote please.

[MrMageo]

Want a quote here is something I whipped up.

BBQ had a WHM = not main healing
BLM's arent used in Mire for obvious reasons = not main nuking
BBQ is a SCH which can heal and AoE buff = Support

is that enough for ya.

What if a RDM/SCH decided instead of refresh he was just going to cast nukes? may not do as much damage but we'd be spending the same MP, and where would the RDM end up? back in WG LFP.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Quote please.

I don't think we need insanity to embellish upon itself.

[MrMageo]

I don't think we need insanity to embellish upon itself.


Your the one who is spouting insanity of how 5 people were wrong but you. You are the support job. It is the support jobs role to make sure the wheels of the party all move smoothly (even with a lousey whm or tank). You failed and you whined, I called you on it and you try and back peddle.

You stopped leveling RDM why? because the workload was to great and you found it boring to be that type of support role. What level did you stop at? 65 just before the Mire. Guess what you chose to level a support job in the mire, you didnt support you got the boot. It it your fault, not the non curing paladin, not the whm who over cured not the sam or mnk who were not /nin.

You failed in your duties as a support role answer my questions I asked earlier or are you concocting a tale of how it wasnt beneficial because of every thing you have said it was the most benefit to your party.

I wont let up on this until you admit you preformed sub par, because that is what you did. Any job who dosent do their job deserves to be booted. That includes you BBQ. 75 has gone to your head. Of course you did level BRD and COR so you don't really know what it takes to be a multibuff support job anyway.

May as well hang up your SCH cuz the workload isnt how you like it (where is the claping hands emote insert it here.)

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

It is the support jobs role to make sure the wheels of the party all move smoothly (even with a lousey whm or tank).

See, this is where you're completely wrong and show you know NOTHING about being a support class. The supporting jobs aren't there to compensate for weak players, the jobs exist to enhance a PT's performance.

[TheGrandMom]

Well you must live in a perfect world were every pt you get has players that pay attention, know their job, have perfect equips, etc. In my world, you often don't get all of that or even some of it so you need to SUPPORT THE WEAK PLAYERS. But I guess in your world you wouldn't pt with people like that.....but wait...you did. Hmmmm....

[Taskmage]

Agreed unfortunately. Many of not most parties are made of weak players. Enhancing the party is compensating for them. You can either give the party what it needs, have a crappy party experience, or have no party.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Agreed unfortunately. Many of not most parties are made of weak players. Enhancing the party is compensating for them. You can either give the party what it needs, have a crappy party experience, or have no party.

I'd argue most players are average and I have no problems with an average PT, because even they make the effort to have what they need before throwing together a PT. If two critical jobs in PT cannot hold up thier end of what the PT needs, it doesn't matter how good the rest of the PT is, or even how valuble the support class may be. The PT will fail and its not fair to lash out at or not listen to other players who are trying to hold it together.

Maybe I'm just not being clear enough in my OPs lately or maybe people are just half-reading them. I'm suspecting its a bit of both, yet we also have people who are reading things into the topic that aren't even there.

[Raydeus]

When you get on a party that doesnt meet your standards you:

a) Do your best to make the party work with the people you have even if there's so much you can humanly do about it.

b) Spend the entire time doing things your way and complaining about how bad your party sucks, while thinking about what to post on a forum about the experience.

c) Accept defeat and go do something else/look for another party.

It's always interesting to see how people react to these kinds of things. :thumbsup:


That being said:

PT was SAM, THF, MNK, PLD, WHM, SCH.

Its a level 68 Mire PT, so shooting off nukes is a mixed bag on Imps, but OK on Jnun. So I'm in Light Arts mode for Imp and Dark Arts for Jnun.

Apparently, to the PLD (our witless leader who never cured himself for hate) thinks its a bad thing. Our WHM is pretty witless too, shooting off Cure IV and V even if members only slightly got into the yellow (horror of horrors), at least he knew what Regen was. Oh and none of the melee were /NIN, which by this point is kinda needed for a place like this.

In this case I think it was a bit of both, a very unskilled party and a support-job player with an attitude. :P

-The party didn't have Refresh, so the PLD was probably saving MP for Flash and emergency cures in an attempt to last as long as possible without having to rest/stop chains, or at least that's what I would do in a situation like that.

-The unskilled WHM was panicy about people dying so overcured and wasted too much mp.

-...while the melee really lacked the skill to moderate their damage output so the PLD could hold hate, something that's really needed when you aren't using shadows because of AoE silence.

-You were there for support and not DD, no question about it. You just have to look at the party setup to notice that. (although that doesn't mean nuking wouldn't help if you could squeeze some good nukes here in there, specially on chain #5+)

So PLD can't hold hate worth a damn, WHM was always out of MP because he honestly wasted too much on high tier cures. The come in the odd requests "Jnun are weak to fire, enfire us."

:rolleyes: Or I could just not do parlor tricks and save that charge for something useful, such as Ebulliance > Fire III.

So basically, my whole cardinal sin in that PT was refusing to Enfire-ga the PT, being a good DD on Jnun and using my MP effectively on Cures, because I seldom got low. I'm a real monster.

Something is really in the water on my server, I swear.

The party lacked the skill to work together (that includes you too sadly :P) and even though I agree Fire III would be more efficient MP-wise than Enfire in that situation I doubt casting Enfire on them would have broken your game, and considering you were there as support you needed to prioritize support duties over DD even if it wasn't as efficient.

A lot of times Support jobs do unnecesary things if only to raise morale, which is also part of a support role if you ask me. :thumbsup:

I doubt you'll change your attitude though, so probably you should do yourself a favor and stick to LS parties or drop out the moment you see things are going to turn out that way, it will save you a lot of headaches. :thumbsup:

[Nuriko]

With that PT setup, I'd rather see the WHM take haste duties, plus silena and backup healing, while the SCH could main heal. Self-targetted AoE buffs are just a pain against imps, I hated having to recast protectra and shellra there ... I wouldn't want to run into range the way the leader seemed to want.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

You were there for support and not DD, no question about it. You just have to look at the party setup to notice that. (although that doesn't mean nuking wouldn't help if you could squeeze some good nukes here in there, specially on chain #5+)

And if we had read what I said several times already, we'd know that the nukes were only "here and there" and when they did happen, it was exclusively on Jnuns. I always make sure the WHM was good on MP and others were decent in the HP before I tried. Its like you're agreeing with me, but disagreeing just for the sake of doing so.

With that PT setup, I'd rather see the WHM take haste duties, plus silena and backup healing, while the SCH could main heal. Self-targetted AoE buffs are just a pain against imps, I hated having to recast protectra and shellra there ... I wouldn't want to run into range the way the leader seemed to want.

They were more painful on COR than anything else, but yeah, it is a bit annoying to get locked up by Amnesia or Silence while performing a buff, as opposed to just one or the other.

I agree with your assesment too, WHM could have focused more on haste and Silena.

They last several PTs have been tons better and I've pretty much been doing the same old thing, mostly as healer.

[Ameroth]

I guess I'm still not sure why you need to post a thread about every party experience you have; good or bad. We've all had great parties, decent parties, and shitty parties. However, most of us also just accept it for what it is and move on when we have shitty parties that make us scratch our heads as opposed to posting rants trying to gather support from online communities to make us feel better.

I'm sorry you got kicked from the party BBQ. Is that what you've been fishing for? News flash, I've been kicked too and it's usually because I disagree with the asinine ideas of the leader. But when that happens, I say fuck it, find a beer and/or smoke a bowl. It's just a video game after all.

[IfritnoItazura]

I'd probably agree, except I don't see what use Erase would be (AFAIK, amnesia is not erasable).
Imps can cast Bio II, IIRC, as well as elemental enfeebs. Should also add Poisona to the list of "I don't want to do without" spells as a back line job for Imps.

* * *

Tanking those Imps is not easy, especially without Refresh. If the WHM was keeping the PLD at full HP all the time, the PLD practically had no chance.

Even with the "right" amount of curing from WHM, pretty much all heck break loose after Amnesia wears off. A split second late and a PLD could lose a chance to use JA due to Amnesia--which usually happens to me one second after everyone WS.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Im sorry you got kicked from the party BBQ. Is that what you've been fishing for? News flash, I've been kicked too and it's usually because I disagree with the asinine ideas of the leader. But when that happens, I say fuck it, find a beer and/or smoke a bowl. It's just a video game after all.

Eh, I think I might just still be on edge from certain events that took place last Friday. I'd go into it, but this probably isn't the best place. Its affected my attitude on just about everything as of late and I have a hard time dealing with anger that stems from betrayal. That's about as specific as I care to get.

Meh, just lock/delete it Task, this topic clearly isn't going anywhere.

[TheGrandMom]

Thread closed by OP's request.