Somthing I have noticed about /BLM

[Bluecat]

Ok I might get flamed for this but oh what the hell, I have noticed. (at least on my RDM) That when I sub /BLM it makes my MND and INT equal, that is without any +MND or +INT gear mind you. Also I have more MP as a /BLM. So why the hell does everyone want a /WHM for? I know for healing, but isn't that the damn WHM falt? Cant find one? Wait till you can find one, I am going to be /BLM because I like it better! :)

[Lanih]

WHM-sub gives you status cures (Poisona, Paralyna, etc) among other things, and those are really golden for a healing role.

Also, much later on, you'll get Erase, and at that point parties might actually require you to come as /WHM. Of course you're always free to refuse, but it's incredibly useful ^^

[MrMageo]

Its all situational what sub you use. Personally if I am preforming backline generally I am /BLM 95% of the time. I usually only /WHM if their are detremental mob tp moves that will hurt the player affected (silence/paralyze/blind).

As for your observations what race are you. Id imagine hume just because of the INT/MND ratio you seem to have. As a Taru my INT is 77 and MND is 63(not 100% but around there) when I /BLM. Hell my INT is still higher than my MND /WHM.

I agree though /BLM is alot more enjoyable (personally I think it is better overall than /WHM which sees limited usage as I described above.) the additional elemental enfeebles, conserve mp, drain, aspir, warp and escape are delicious compared to teleports, curaga's and -na spells.


*EDIT* I guess your a mithra judging from your avatar but still pretty equal stats which is why it balances closer.

[IfritnoItazura]

Ok I might get flamed for this but oh what the hell, I have noticed. (at least on my RDM) That when I sub /BLM it makes my MND and INT equal, that is without any +MND or +INT gear mind you. Also I have more MP as a /BLM. So why the hell does everyone want a /WHM for? I know for healing, but isn't that the damn WHM falt? Cant find one? Wait till you can find one, I am going to be /BLM because I like it better! :)

Outside of a static exp party, you can't be sure to always have a WHM, and many static parties are set up without one. Even if there's a WHM in party, sometimes it's very helpful to have another person who can cast status removal spells and share the curing load. And, no matter what, RDM always has some healing duty, and Curaga I and II are very useful for that.

At Lv.70+ (if not earlier), RDM is often the sole person with any cure spell in a party. Even though /BLU offers more MP efficient cure spells, the utility of other spells from /WHM outweighs the advantages of /BLU in most cases.

Generally speaking, RDM/WHM is a more versatile combination than RDM/BLM for exp use. (Example: One smart use of Curaga or Poisona or Erase or Divine Seal will save more MP than the extra MP /BLM would give you.)

* * *

Where RDM/BLM truly shines is crowd control, mostly by keep extra critters asleep while the alliance concentrate on one target at a time. (Though, last night in Limbus I was tossing out sleeps for as a desperate attempt to slow down enraged monsters from eating our BLMs as they insanely chain nuked. >_>; )

I'm RDM/WHM 95% of the time in exp/merit parties, and RDM/BLM 90% time everywhere else--Sky, Limbus, Sea, Dynamis, mission fights, etc. Both /WHM are /BLM are indispensable to a RDM, really.

[Feenicks]

If you need to begin your post with "I might be flamed for this, but ...", shouldn't that be an indication that you're about to post something that a lot of people are going to disagree with, possibly with very good reason?

[Jei]

A good Rdm is the one who can use any sub jobs to fit the party's need.

Let's say you go exp in the tomb where all your fighters will get blinded every 30 seconds. The whm will be crying if you're a Rdm/Blm.

[eticket109]

lol @ thinking you'll ever have a whm in the party with you. >.>

[BurningPanther]

lol @ thinking you'll ever have a whm in the party with you. >.>
If you're willing to pull a few teeth and wish upon a star, it could probably happen.

[Brielle]

If White Mages are not being used in parties, what are taking their place? I have heard people discuss having Red Mages and Paladins, are there any other jobs?

[eticket109]

If you're willing to pull a few teeth and wish upon a star, it could probably happen.

What's funny is when I was seeking as WHM, there was always at least two of us.... but when I'm building a party I can't find one to save my life. (pun mostly intentional). >.>

[Rain_Blade]

If White Mages are not being used in parties, what are taking their place? I have heard people discuss having Red Mages and Paladins, are there any other jobs?

Red Mages, Summoners, Blue Mages, Dancer, Black Mages/White Mages sometimes, Scholar, and Puppetmasters sometimes. I've had a Paladin Taru main heal as well.

[Brielle]

So it is not necessarily that groups do not want White Mages, they are just not very easy to find. That makes more sense to me now, thank you.

[eticket109]

my pld static actually has 2 DNC doing the healing. it works pretty well.

[Yellow Mage]

Brielle, you have to understand that standards for healing are grossly overestimated by this game's mechanics, and a White Mage can easily be replaced by anything that has an at least half-decent MP pool subbing White Mage. However, Scholars can make good healers even by the overestimated standards.

Another thing you have to understand is that the White Mage's job is not a desirable one by most, so the population basically tried to force whatever it can find in to it, sometimes even going so far as making BLM/WHM main healers. HINT: Healing was NOT what that poor Black Mage signed up for. It's sad that some don't see this as painfully obvious.

/vent

[Murphie]

So it is not necessarily that groups do not want White Mages, they are just not very easy to find. That makes more sense to me now, thank you.

It's a combination. People are leveling WHM less because 1.) There are lots of level 75 WHMs already, b.) People are tired of waiting for an invite on WHM, and iii.) Lots of other jobs can handle most exp healing situations and still provide other benefits to the party.

WHMs are very handy tho.

[Kittyneko]

A bit off-topic; it seems to me that how longer this game exists, the more jobs are not getting party invites because of some reason.

[Murphie]

Well, that happens with any MMO. As time goes by, parties develop more specific strategies. That focusing is bound to leave a few people out of the loop.

But I wouldn't say that there are really that many more jobs that don't get invites now than there used to be.

[Icemage]

A bit off-topic; it seems to me that how longer this game exists, the more jobs are not getting party invites because of some reason.
Have to disagree with this.

I remember the days when no one would invite any DD aside from Thieves and Dragoons (because of yokodama and penta, respectively).

Or the days of fistburns in King Ranperre's Tomb, where if you weren't a Monk, Bard, White Mage, or Red Mage, you needn't apply.

Or the arrowburn parties in the Celestil Nexus, only there it was Rangers + Bards.

Or the BLM manaburn parties.

If anything, the current XP-worthy roster is noticeably more expansive than it used to be. It's only at the higher levels that things start breaking down, but there's now Campaign to fill in the gaps, so even less "efficient" jobs can still find something to do to gain XP while looking for a party.


Icemage

[Aksannyi]

lol @ thinking you'll ever have a whm in the party with you. >.>
I leveled from 1-75 and I main healed (meaning no whm) less than a handful of times. I was adamant that I would not main heal and I got to 75 just fine.

[IfritnoItazura]

I'm the "I'll be flexible" RDM, enfeeble, refresh, haste, main heal, co-heal, co-nuke, whatever. I had WHMs in half of the parties to Lv.72 or so anyway; only at Lv.72-75 range did they disappear--but not completely.

I told one WHM in a Greater Colibri party that next time he invite me to the bird camp, he should bring his DD gear. :thumbsup: (Figured he could do more damage on the front line than I can. heh.)

[Jei]

Whm hammering the poor bird? : / wouldn't Rdm with joytoy do better damage?

[BurningPanther]

Whm hammering the poor bird? : / wouldn't Rdm with joytoy do better damage? Basically. Piercing weapons(fleuret, rapier, epeé, any dagger RDM can equip) > Colibri.

[Yellow Mage]

(Figured he could do more damage on the front line than I can. heh.)

Not really: you got Daggers. And Arrows, technically, even from the back line. Oh, and if you're lucky enough to have a Joytoy . . .

I don't know how much the damage adjustment affects such a situation, but the point is you have Piercing. They have only Blunt.

Just 2 gil here.

EDIT: Jei and BP beat me. ^^;

[Jei]

You don't need that much luck to get joytoy. You do, however, need some good friends.

[BurningPanther]

EDIT: Jei and BP beat me. ^^; Well, you thought to mention Archery, which I continually forget about(what with dismal skill, lack of Weapon Skills, and whatnot), and actually reminds me I should level it up sometime in the future.
I leveled from 1-75 and I main healed (meaning no whm) less than a handful of times. I was adamant that I would not main heal and I got to 75 just fine.Keep in mind, folks like yourself and I made it to our 70s in the pre-ToAU era, a point in time when it really wasn't uncommon to see a RDM, WHM and BLM in the same party. I think eTicket was referring mostly to the exp trends today.

[Ameroth]

You don't need that much luck to get joytoy apart from maybe fighting for claim. You do, however, need some good friends.

You actually don't need any luck at all to get a joytoy. But I won't disagree about the need for good friends.

-----

w for healing, but isn't that the damn WHM falt? Cant find one? Wait till you can find one, I am going to be /BLM because I like it better!

You might like it better, and it is, after all, you're choice what to sub; however it's the party leader's choice to replace you with a rdm that will sub whm if needed. There will be plenty of times when /blm is useful, and an equal amount (or more) of times when /whm is useful (or required).

You're not much use to a party if you're the only mage in the group and stuck with healing duty and you're focusing on nuking instead of healing, status curing, and refreshing. And believe you me, if you plan to play RDM past 41, you will find yourself as main heal in more than one party before 75 (unless you choose to leave the party, and again that's your choice).

[IfritnoItazura]

Oh, that was a party I tried DD RDM in, Joyeuse included. I wasn't impressed by my performance.

Granted, I have slightly better gear options now, but I was curious if the WHM can do better. Still am, actually, since WHM has higher base skill, Hexa Stike, and a decent selection of Haste gear. (Really should level dagger and get Opo-Opo Crown out of the way so I can unlock Evisceration or whatever that WS is called.)

Edit:
Not really: you got Daggers. And Arrows, technically, even from the back line. Oh, and if you're lucky enough to have a Joytoy . . .

I don't know how much the damage adjustment affects such a situation, but the point is you have Piercing. They have only Blunt.

Joyeuse is great for DoT, but base damage is quite low, so not so great for WS. Besides, for WS, it's counted as slashing.

I'd never bother to waste time shooting arrows at Colibri as a RDM. Well, maybe in a skill up party, but not in a merit party. ^_^;

[Kurb]

If White Mages are not being used in parties, what are taking their place? I have heard people discuss having Red Mages and Paladins, are there any other jobs?
at high lvls depending on party set up a pld and red combo is feriece handy
I did this with 4 DD jobs. hate was tossed between all the DD's but cover and cure4 kept the red alive and all are refreshs meant are healing was minimal.I believe the RED was /WHM.But RED/BLM and BLM/RED work well in parties :D

[Jei]

I wouldn't waste time shooting arrows in skill up PTs either xD Leveling up the actual Rng job is much easier and more fun.

For DD you'll want to use Rdm/nin holding dagger with high damage in main hand and use evisceration. Hold joytoy offhand for TP.

[IfritnoItazura]

Can't unlock Evisceration, yet, so lazy about skilling up Dagger. (Need to get Opo-Opo Crown quest out of the way.) Besides, Dual Wield really waters down Joyeuse's TP gain; I'd probably need a minimum of Blau Dolch to make the Dagger+Joyeuse combo worthwhile.

It'd be a pretty ridiculous investment for something ("DD" in merit party) I'd do once every three blue moons. Not that I didn't enjoy it, but I'm one of those perfectly happy to be in the back line RDM, and it's where I'm wanted 99% of the time anyway for merit party.

[arkaine23]

No, it really doesn't. It speeds up your attack rate. Tp gain rate might drop by 5-10%, which is probably only going to be one attack round.

TP gain is not all that important for RDM/NIN. Sort of like MNK who do significant damage from fast attacking, and medium damage weaponskills. Of course RDM is not as powerful as a MNK, but the concept is similar. We're generally doing 2/3 or more of our damage from normal hits and enspells.

RDM/NIN should be built for fast attacking. Dagger/Joyeuse, haste/acc gear, Suppa. It bumps up its per-strike damage with enspell. Evisceration does moderate damage. Vs something like a Colibri the Piercing bonus applies (+25% damage) on regular hits and WS.

I tend to find merit level mobs require sushi, even though I'm combat merited. I find DD'ing on RDm to be very enjoyable, and its mostly because people don't expect you to be pimped out and prepared for it, and consequently do good damage. My days of backline healing are over since I've had capped xp for a long time, and until just this week capped merits (finally got PLD to 75 so can get its tier I and II merits).

[IfritnoItazura]

No, it really doesn't. It speeds up your attack rate. Tp gain rate might drop by 5-10%, which is probably only going to be one attack round.

Let's see if I can do this right. Assuming 45% Double Attack activation rate for Joyeuse:

Joyeuse alone:
Delay = 224
TP/swing = 5.0 + [(Delay - 180) * 6.5] / 270 = 6.0
Swing/min = 3600 / Delay = 16.07143
TP/min = TP/Swing * Swing/min = 96.43
TP/min (Joy mod) = TP/min * 145% = 139.82 TP/min
Swing/min (Joy Mod) = Swing/min * 145% = 23.30

DWII: Blau Dolch + Joyeuse
Delay = (178 + 224) * (100% - 15%) = 341.7
TP/swing = 5.0 + [(Delay/2 - 180) * 6.5] / 270 = 4.7
Round/min = 3600 / Delay = 10.53556
Swing/Round = 2
TP/min = TP/Swing * Swing/Round * Round/Min = 99.03
TP/min (Joy mod) = TP/min * (100% + (45%/2)) = 121.32 TP/min
Swing/Min (Joy Mod) = Swing/Round * Round/min * (100% + (45%/2)) = 25.81212

% diff in TP gain speed: 13.2% (Joyeuse alone is faster TP)
% diff in swing/min: -10.8% (DW results in faster swings)
You understated the negative effect on TP gain, but right in it would be more swing/min. (The numbers would be different with other DA and DW equipment added, of course.)


My days of backline healing are over since I've had capped xp for a long time, and until just this week capped merits (finally got PLD to 75 so can get its tier I and II merits).
My exp refuses to stay capped, and I've been lazy about merits. Good thing I don't mind the back line at all. :P