Would you play FFXI on a private server?

[Feba]

While looking for something unrelated, I came across a project that seems to be reverse engineering FFXI's server; with a fair deal of success. So far, they're able to create zones and wander around them, change from night to day, trigger music, and so on. They can't do NPCs yet; which obviously means no quests, missions, monsters-- even things like doors don't seem to work yet. It's obviously very bare bones, (you even have to be able to access FFXI with your character before you can switch to a non-official server) but it does show that it could some day be possible to run an FFXI server completely independent of SE.

You can see more on their progress yourself (Deleted)

Which brings me to my main point: If it were possible to run FFXI more or less the same as an official server without involving SE, would you play it?

Private servers have lots of opportunities-- you can screw with stats to make the game easier, or harder; quicker or longer. You could restrict it to a small group (say, 100~ or so people) to make it extremely intimate; and to take some of the frustration out of end game. You could make a server where RP was mandated. You could even have a server just for your static, so when you save the world, you're really saving the goddamn world.

They also have their downfalls, of course-- Not as many people to play with; questionable legality; admins who make the game too easy (EVERYONE STARTS AT 75) or too hard (BEHEMOTH IN RONFAURE. HAHAHA.), or are just plain sadistic (I fully expect that at least 20% of FFXI private servers would have some asshole name a character Dave, give it GM flags, and spawn Jormungand all over the place); probably less reliable; missing out on things like events that the official servers would have (although it would of course be possible to make your own events, with a small enough community)

So, in short, if it were possible to run a reasonably or completely accurate FFXI server privately, would you play on one (or even, run one?)
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This forum needs poll editing. For srs.

AKosygin EDIT: I apologize to be a party pooper myself, but I was "asked" to remove the link.

[Kailea]

would be interesting to try out ;p I have played many UO free servers and alot of them are well done

[KingOfZeal]

Yes and no. I think it would be fun if I could use it to test out things, such as equipment and how well I could solo mob X on such and such job.

It would also be awesome to be able to get all the storyline without as much work as is needed now. I really do love the storyines and the lore they put into every little thing. Sometimes I wish I could just see all the CS's back to back in the order they were meant to be.

That being said though, I would be too tempted to spawn about 500 level 600 Jorgy's in the newbie areas.

[Jei]

I heard a lot of stories from other Thai and Japanese players that there has been private servers running in Japan for a long time already. Many people mentioned university students running the game on their university's server. Whether it's true or not, I never found out.

[Feba]

I find it hard to believe that people would bother working on a project like this if there was something already out there. Those are probably either baseless rumours, or someone who didn't really know what they were talking about or was mistranslated (like someone running the program I'm talking about; or SE taking one of their small servers like Chocobo to a university event)

I also have a hard time believing any university would let students use their servers for gaming.

[Jei]

They won't officially. I don't know how strict it is in Japan, but I was in computer engineering university before. There, they let student volunteer to admin the servers. We we had tons of game servers running on them. They're not allowed of course but you wouldn't believe how much freedom the university gave us. Some of the admins even host porns on them : /

[Kittyneko]

There isn't anything like this out there yet. At least by far not fully functional. But yes, if I'd know how to host it myself, I'd probably mess around on it a bit. However, for it to be interesting to "mess around" on, it would have to be decently functional. This is really, really far ahead of now.
Basically, the first step, actually getting a host server to work properly hasn't even been done yet.

[Feba]

Basically, the first step, actually getting a host server to work properly hasn't even been done yet.


Did you, by chance, read my OP? It does work, it's just so incomplete as to be useless.

[Kittyneko]

Did you, by chance, read my OP? It does work, it's just so incomplete as to be useless.

It's yet impossible to get the official client to work with this.

The reason there aren't any items, monsters and what so ever, is because they haven't created any databases yet to work with their server.

[Raydeus]

I voted "No, because of social benefits on official servers (lots-o-people, etc.)" because that's what these games are about, people.

Now... if only there were less people in each server (read noob filter) and the game included a Matrix like Japanese-language-upload with the installation process that would be perfect. :worry:

[Feba]

It's yet impossible to get the official client to work with this.

uh, no, in fact it requires the official client to log in to your character in the first place.

You might be thinking of something else, but they very much do appear to have servers that work; albeit they are very incomplete.
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I voted "No, because of social benefits on official servers (lots-o-people, etc.)" because that's what these games are about, people.

Well, there are some very large private servers out there. Private doesn't mean empty; they just usually have fewer players than official ones. The noob filter you speak of is something that could only really be done on private servers; though it would take a bored GM to do it.

[Kittyneko]

uh, no, in fact it requires the official client to log in to your character in the first place.

You might be thinking of something else, but they very much do appear to have servers that work; albeit they are very incomplete.


You can't just connect it from your PC one of their servers from around the world.

Also note that something similiar been done a long time ago, by changing the target IP address of the area upon zoning, you can switch to a different server(The different FFXI or a private world) or even other people's Mog House using this method... (Does it ring a bell?)

I study networking, but I must say I don't really know exactly how to go into much details without making mistakes. :wasted:

[Feba]

You can't just connect it from your PC one of their servers from around the world.


Well of course it requires *some* modification. Requiring someone to run an external program and saying that "the server doesn't work" is a huge, huge difference. Likewise if you mean that you can't connect to a dedicated server already, because people don't bother to run them.
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ProjectXI :: Index (http://projectxi.sourceforge.net/phpBB2/index.php) link for those interested and unlikely to notice that it's been updated in the main post. Pai Pai said it should be alright.

[Raydeus]

uWell, there are some very large private servers out there. Private doesn't mean empty; they just usually have fewer players than official ones. The noob filter you speak of is something that could only really be done on private servers; though it would take a bored GM to do it.

How many people are we talking about though? Anything less than 1k players would be pretty empty to me. :wasted:

I'd probably resort to playing the game on a virtual server in my computer and simply modify lvl and other caps so I could solo everything instead. :P

[Telera]

If I could play this game for free, I'd come back to it in a heartbeat, if only to have something to do (read: toddle around on a taru for hours doing nothing) when I'm a bit bored of LotR or PSU.

So if there was a private server, my ass would be on it as soon as I could. I like this game. But not enough to pay to play it anymore. It's more something I'd like to be able to just get on, know it wasn't costing me a dime anymore, and mess around. Kind of like how I came and went from Monster Hunter. If it was pay to play I would've ditched it long before the servers went down.

[Feba]

I like this game. But not enough to pay to play it anymore.
I totally understand that feeling. When you want to pop in and see what's going on, but you're just not going to play often enough to justify even $13.

[Malevolent]

I'd use the private server only to try out different job unconventional job combos. a dry sky NM run solo or with a group. So manly as a testing ground. i think it would benefit the users ten fold. i mean imagine the feedback on JAs or spells when SE implements them. It would be huge either bad or good. players will or could add a extra hand into development.

but to assume how SE would feel about that... I dunno

[Tickmeoff]

I'd hit up a decently populated mid to high-rate FFXI server without a second thought.

[Feba]

players will or could add a extra hand into development.

Never going to happen. Look at .dats, players have done great jobs on some of them, SE has never offered to review them and possibly add them as reskins (for example; on NMs), or even offered a contest on them as far as I am aware. The very least they could do if they wanted players to help would be to allow some mods (UI changes, for instance), but they really don't care. Hell, remember when Assaults were supposed to be private, customizable duengeons? And what did we get? You can set your level range! OOOH, THE CUSTOMIZABILITY IS ONLY RIVALED BY LEGOS.

SE hates the playerbase! No; but in all seriousness they are console game makers, and outdated ones at that. They're a lot like Nintendo: Great games; some of them are getting a bit cheap and repetitive; they do some things that are revolutionary and creative (Spirits Within, for instance); and they're nervous about letting the players mess with their games too much, or really stepping into modern times in their games.

[Kittyneko]

Hell, remember when Assaults were supposed to be private, customizable duengeons? And what did we get? You can set your level range! OOOH, THE CUSTOMIZABILITY IS ONLY RIVALED BY LEGOS.
Aren't you confusing things a little bit? I believe at the last Fan Festival they said they were thinking about fully customizable assault-like dungeons.

How many people are we talking about though? Anything less than 1k players would be pretty empty to me. :wasted:

I'd probably resort to playing the game on a virtual server in my computer and simply modify lvl and other caps so I could solo everything instead. :P

Wow, 1000? :P

To be honest, if this project eventually will get off the ground and become publicly available (for semi-regular people to install and host).. I really wouldn't count on a stable and half decent private server with more than 50-100 players.

I have a few hours gameplay on my own private servers from other games. For most games you can find relatively easy guides on how to install a private server with download links and all. It was fun but in the end, I do kind of want to show someone my accomplishments, my hard earned levels and so. However it was nice to explore the game(s) a little bit more than I could on the real servers.

These ffxi private server projects have been around pretty much since the beginning of FFXI, which was 6 years ago. It's possible that it never really works out, but I guess we can only hope. I suppose it's like the Ffxi on Linux projects. Also imagine though that even when all of sudden it starts to really work out, it's still very very likely to feature millions of bugs, glitches that won't get fixed for a long time and some even never to be fixed, leaving you with an extremely different gameplay experience of Ffxi.


players will or could add a extra hand into development.
I'm unsure in what you mean, aren't the current Ffxi players (or former players) that have the knowledge and will to try already trying? If you mean regular players helping out, I suppose that's something for the far future in the final stages, finding bugs. :P


It looks quite promising. However know that at this time for this to work you actually need to have a real FFXI Content ID. You log in and boot FFXI, and that's when the server starts to take over. (And basically you log in to a character on a new FFXI server).

[Feba]

I really wouldn't count on a stable and half decent private server with more than 50-100 players.

You have to consider that, by the time this project comes to fruition, if ever, we will all likely have computers with at least a few dozen cores. It will almost certainly perform better than we can imagine now; even if it only takes four or five years. Not to mention the fact that there are private servers out there managing thousands of clients (I think the highest I've ever seen was around 2700k for a game about FFXI's age)

. It was fun but in the end, I do kind of want to show someone my accomplishments, my hard earned levels and so.

Screenshots? Invite other people to your server?

I suppose it's like the Ffxi on Linux projects.

Actually, that's not an apt comparison. FFXI on Linux is mostly through the Wine project; which is independent of any attempt to make FFXI work in it specifically. Wine attempts to reverse engineer the Windows API, in such a way that it will run on UNIX and unix-like systems. That is, the *entire* Windows API. Much of the work to get FFXI to run on Linux was done before FFXI existed; and certainly most of it has been done without even thinking about FFXI. Improvements intended to help one thing often wind up helping another as well. FFXI has actually gotten much closer to running in wine-- it's even possible to run the Benchmark program and see little tarus running around. The problem right now is some bottleneck in the login process.

FFXI server projects, on the other hand, have basically two methods: steal SE's official files and distribute them, or reverse engineer it based on the client, and server-client communications (packet sniffing). They deal exclusively with FFXI, and are unlikely to ever receive any support from SE. They have very limited amounts of people who are likely to be able to help, if interested. I doubt they'd run into a specific "Killer" problem that would keep it from working; they just have a metric fuckton of work to do on it, and not many people to do it.

[Kittyneko]

. It was fun but in the end, I do kind of want to show someone my accomplishments, my hard earned levels and so.

Screenshots? Invite other people to your server?

Well, inviting other people is fun, but that's not what I mean. Because on private servers it's not that big of a deal if you have all jobs level 75. You can simply do this by a command or have some GM do it for you. On the real servers, all 1000's of players know you have done this by yourself. Umm.. I guess you know what I mean now. ^^;


I suppose it's like the Ffxi on Linux projects.

Actually, that's not an apt comparison. bla bla bla...
I didn't mean the actual project is the same, but people have been working on it for a long time as well and it's also still not working good enough. It's just another big FFXi project.

Ps.: I think I editted my previous post a 1000 times before you replied. :P I seem to do that alot.. I post, then edit it many times.

[Feba]

On the real servers, all 1000's of players know you have done this by yourself.

Not really. You could've just as easily been power leveled, or cheated (botting; buying it off RMT). Seeing a lv75 player, the first thought isn't "Look at that accomplishment", it's just "They're lv 75."

, but people have been working on it for a long time as well and it's also still not working good enough.

But comparing the efforts to try to get FFXI running on Wine and the efforts to try to build a private server is like comparing a company building an apartment complex with people lobbying for better housing standards. There's probably a little overlap, and they're both big efforts and incomplete, but they just don't compare like that.

[Kittyneko]

Not really. You could've just as easily been power leveled, or cheated (botting; buying it off RMT). Seeing a lv75 player, the first thought isn't "Look at that accomplishment", it's just "They're lv 75."

Ok, so you're saying entering "/setlevel 75" is the same as powerleveling or any other possible way of cheating on the real servers. To each their own I guess. I was just saying for me it feels much better to be on a real server which is protected and much more secure in many ways, to own a high level character than on some private server.
It's just not the same. I can give you a screenshot of World of Warcraft character list with 100 level 255 characters.
Imagine at school/work, where friends/colleagues tell you they also play FFXi.
"Cool! I play too, I got a 75 Red Mage and Paladin."
"I have a 75 Blue Mage, Red Mage, Ninja, Summoner, Paladin, Warrior, Bard, Dragoon, Puppet Master, Samurai, Ranger and Black Mage, with full Artifact2 and Relic weapons."
"Wow, that's so awesome. I play on Carbuncle server, and you?"
"Oh i'm on a private server."

It's different.. almost everyone who played on both real and private servers can agree on that.


But comparing the efforts to try to get FFXI running on Wine and the efforts to try to build a private server is like comparing a company building an apartment complex with people lobbying for better housing standards. There's probably a little overlap, and they're both big efforts and incomplete, but they just don't compare like that.

What?

Edit:
please don't answer that. :worry: ... They're just both FFXi projects. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Feba]

Ok, so you're saying entering "/setlevel 75" is the same as powerleveling or any other possible way of cheating on the real servers.

No, I'm just saying that you can't see someone with a lv75 character and assume they earned it. Hell, I had a friend give me their account to use for various stuff, so I would often run around on a Lv75 Ninja, and I had done jack shit to earn it.

Besides; it's perfectly possible to restrict access to things on a private server just as much as on an official one. If you want, you could even make the game *more* challenging, or more of a grind.

The only difference is if you get on a private server that is run by people that don't care about leveling, and want everyone's levels to be capped from the start, or if you run the server yourself. Otherwise, it can still be just as much of an accomplishment.


They're just both FFXi projects. Nothing more, nothing less.


You couldn't be more wrong.

[Kittyneko]

I'm gonna try it one more time. Instead of just trying to somehow prove the opposite with twisted logic; I ask you this.

If you do not look at the monthly fee's, where would you rather level your character to 75. On the real servers or a random private server? What seems like a better thing to show your friend? That was all. You can make set the exp rate slower on a private server, yes.


Ps.: I really don't care how you like to define the "FFXi on linux" vs "FFXi private server" thing. What I meant to say was that there are certain people waiting for further progress in both cases since a long time, and it's going at similiar speed to the end goal, which was the whole point of that section of my post.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind a discussion, but discussing something way off the initial point anyway.. I don't like that, so I won't bother replying to whatever your reply is regarding these issues.

[Feba]

where would you rather level your character to 75. On the real servers or a random private server?

It depends entirely on the state of the servers. If one has a better community, economy, is better maintained, I'd go with it.

What seems like a better thing to show your friend?

If you're solely going for bragging rights? It depends entirely on how the private server is set up. A private server that has harder mobs would be more impressive than the official server.

So the private server project and the project to get FFXi running on Linux are not both ffxi related projects.

Yes. Comparing the two makes no sense; they are entirely different in scope, objective, and focus.

[Kittyneko]

I probably editted my previous post before you entered the third quote. I stick to what I said.


It depends entirely on the state of the servers. If one has a better community, economy, is better maintained, I'd go with it.

If you're solely going for bragging rights? It depends entirely on how the private server is set up. A private server that has harder mobs would be more impressive than the official server.

Not only for bragging, but also for yourself, the security of the future of your character etc.

Woosh. Well.. I don't know how much experience you have with private servers, but regardless, it's really, really unlikely (in theory, everything is possible) that there are private servers that are better maintained, less bugs, better community (and on a lesser note, better economy) and what not. There's tons of private servers to find for various games. And some of them are actually really good maintained and you'd be able to have a great game experience there. But better maintained than the real game? Maybe with very old (no longer supported?) games.
Also, this is kind of derailing off the topic. I mean, if there would be private servers (for free) that are actually better than the real server(s).. it would probably be the initial choice of everyone. Especially because if it were that good organised and maintained, it would more than likely grow a big reputation as well.

It's a fact that a typical private server has much more negative sides than positive (besides the free of charge.) If you just don't want to or can't pay for a game, that's a whole different issue then ofcourse.

[KoukiRyu]

I doubt it'd happen, but I'd join a server with a decent amount of people on it. Ragnarok/WoW private servers already tend to be empty fairly often. So I seriously doubt I'd see a mid-highly populated private server.

If there was one though, I'd most definitely jump on, normal/high/mid whatever kind of rates.

[Feba]

What I meant to say was that there are certain people waiting for further progress in both cases since a long time, and it's going at similiar speed to the end goal, which was the whole point of that section of my post.

The only real similarity is that there are a lot of people who would like either one. The two have nothing else in common.

it's really, really unlikely (in theory, everything is possible) that there are private servers that are better maintained, less bugs, better community (and on a lesser note, better economy) and what not.

Of course, but there are cases where a private server can be more enjoyable to spend time on.
It's a fact that a typical private server has much more negative sides than positive
Of course; and I'm not saying or expecting that a private server would ever surpass an official FFXI server, just that that doesn't mean it's inferior either.

[Kittyneko]

No, ok. Personally though, what bothers me the most is the security of my character and fair play. What if there's a unfixable bug, or a GM that decides to give some random other players currency/items and so on.. Those things bother me. I suppose real paying servers by a huge company such as Square-Enix give me much more security about those issues.

[Feba]

It does depend entirely on who's running the server. There are some times when even the official teams can't be trusted; like those people who suspiciously figured out goblin drink before anyone else, and didn't share it (but were more than happy to let you pay for the drop); or what happened in EVE online.

Companies are generally more trustworthy, yeah, but other people can be trustworthy as well.

[Akashimo]

I'd consider to play on one if I can set it up at home and just run around on it during something like a maintenance or try out job ideas.

Heh, even set up a crazy NM spawning chain system that spawns 0-9, A to Z every NM after the previous one was killed and all your mp/hp/timers were restored.

Or make mobs run about and aggro their 'natural' enemies based on the chart
Even change it so you can charm the Lamia to fight for you and enter cities ;o

/endweird

Anyways, idea of this is pretty awesome and something worth keeping tabs on.

[Feba]

Heh, even set up a crazy NM spawning chain system that spawns 0-9, A to Z every NM after the previous one was killed and all your mp/hp/timers were restored.

BOSS RUSH GO

As to your other ideas, I doubt the possibility of them, but still.

[Akashimo]

Yeah, but would set someone off balance to see a Demon from Castle Z. entrance suddenly zerg rush to the OP and started killing Shadow Dragons or Biast.

Or to see Lamia No.13 following you around in Whitegate.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Aren't you confusing things a little bit? I believe at the last Fan Festival they said they were thinking about fully customizable assault-like dungeons

Feba hasn't played FFXI for quite some time now, so aside from the generic RDM or SMN cryfests and rants about the state of meritpo, he doesn't really know anything of current relevance about the game.

But yeah, SE was talking about that for some future content, they never said Assaults themselves would be customizable, nor was there talk of customizable dungeons prior to ToA's release.

I think the customizable dungeon idea was shelved, though it would have made for an interesting mini-game.

[Feba]

Feba hasn't played FFXI for quite some time now, [...]he doesn't really know anything of current relevance about the game.

Sure I do. Most of the time I "played" ffxi was spent on forums anyway. It's not like logging in to the game magically gives you knowledge about what's going on.

they never said Assaults themselves would be customizable

I never said that they did, directly. It was, however, implied; and while a lot of it was the fault of the community setting their expectations for updates too high (as usual; although TAU really was an incredible expansion), the point was that SE's idea of customization and the playerbase's is very different. And yes, I know what I'm talking about; people were thinking of assaults, this was before FFFF06 (which, I'll remind you, I attended.).

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Sure I do. Most of the time I "played" ffxi was spent on forums anyway. It's not like logging in to the game magically gives you knowledge about what's going on.

Then I'm sure you can tell the innermost workings and dynamis of Salvage, Nyzul Isle and Einherjar. Go on, tell us how those work and how to do them effectively. Sure, you could read about some of it on forums, but that's not the whole picture - someone had to get the information before posting it.

I never said that they did, directly. It was, however, implied; and while a lot of it was the fault of the community setting their expectations for updates too high (as usual; although TAU really was an incredible expansion), the point was that SE's idea of customization and the playerbase's is very different. And yes, I know what I'm talking about; people were thinking of assaults, this was before FFFF06 (which, I'll remind you, I attended.).

They neither said or implied it then, people just misinterpeted and wishful thinking went too far. That's a very different thing that happens all the time with update releases.

I mean how many thread have we had about "RDM frontline update" now. You got half the RDMs out there thinking thier update is the Second Coming of Christ when all SE said was they were thinking of ways to get RDMs on the frontlines occasionally. SE doesn't have a problem with RDMs on the backline, just that RDMs are on the backline all the time, which shouldn't always be the case.

[Feba]

Then I'm sure you can tell the innermost workings and dynamis of Salvage, Nyzul Isle and Einherjar. Go on, tell us how those work and how to do them effectively

So, in your eyes, the only knowledge worth having in FFXI is a very small subsection of endgame; which itself is a relatively small portion compared to the game as a whole?

I never really took an interest in those things; and even if I had, that would be irrelevant. My being unable to explain how to do one part of the game does not impact my ability to speak of the game and know what I am talking about.

The only advice I give out anymore is to new players, and that's always been the same (Learn to google, love to google, and here's a few other things worth checking out.) ; if I don't know enough about a subject personally to give an opinion on it (such as asking about SCH or DNC), I tell them I honestly don't know. Actually, I seem to recall recommending to one or two people that they ask you about it.

Most of what I talk about anymore is stuff that anyone who's played an MMO before could chime in on, with a very small amount of knowing what FFXI is like. I'm really getting tired of your "feba doesn't even play anymore, so he doesn't know anything" crap, because it's as untrue as me saying "BBQ is a Mithra COR, he has no idea what a Galka Mage is like"-- you might not be able to describe it personally, but I'm sure you have a very good idea of what it's like, or know people that do.

They neither said or implied it then, people just misinterpeted and wishful thinking went too far.

Mmm, that would depend on where you draw the line between implication and misinterpretation, I suppose. Either way, it's irrelevant to the main point that SE and customization go together like a piano and a cat that really could care less.

[Kittyneko]

Assaults have been introduced around the time of Treasures of Aht Urhgan expansion release, and last Fan Festival (which was in theme of the latest expansion "Wings of the Goddess") the developers have said they were looking to implement very customizable dungeons (etc.)

[Feba]

Ok, that doesn't mean that there wasn't talk of Assault being more customizable than it turned out to be (whether this was the fault of SE or the playerbase).

I can see where you would think I'm confused, but really, I'm not.

[Kittyneko]

I can see where you would think I'm confused, but really, I'm not.

:thumbsup:

This is one of them quote's you'd put in a signature!

[Feba]

This is one of them quote's you'd put in a signature!

Or take out of context to question someone's sexuality!

[Murphie]

Incorrect use of the possessive. :(

People take everything I say out of context. Just watch what someone has to say about this post.

On topic: No. Becuz I plae eff eff eks eye 4 frens.