RDM Tanking

[WishMaster3K]

OMFG. The last RDM tanking thread was Ruic's experiments during his 50s.

Back in 2004.

Something must be done about this.

I suppose this entry post is just filler, because I'm in class right now, but I'm inspired now.

Forget RDM Melee, RDM Tanking is where it's at, damnit! I'm inspired because my LS leader made me come to Attowha Chasm as RDM/NIN, with the intention of having me tank Feeler Antlion.

I should say, "surprisingly, it worked!" but it really wasn't much of a surprise for anyone who knows me.

When I get to my laptop back home, I'll detail how the runs went and what my macros were and when I used certain gear as opposed to other gear, because the run actually was very simple, and in the case of Feeler Antlion, I was able to mitigate damage consistently to the mid-50s, Stoneskin was up long enough for me to survive a few hits and cast Ni, and being that I was taking damage in the 50s, could easily cure myself until Ni was up. (Protip: Ichi is impossible to cast inbetween her attacks.)

But it was very fun. I made some mistakes, and there was some support required from a co-tank (to a certain extent) but it's very doable.

Being that I am probably the best RDM in my linkshell, I expect that they'll have me tank a ton more shit, so I'll probably be able to write a guide or something.

Anyway, more details later.

[Callisto]

OMFG. The last RDM tanking thread was Ruic's experiments during his 50s.


http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/red-mage/71065-getting-into-rdm-tankage.html

First page, 6 posts down, slacker. :P

BUT! I agree, we shall converse...FOR SCIENCE!!
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This is something I wanted to piece together for the new guide anyways, I suppose this would be a good place to do it.

Anyways, everyone's probably seen them already, but here's Belkin's LJ on RDM/NIN tanking (http://belkinator.livejournal.com/829.html), and of course Kaeko's Enmity table for RDM (http://kanican.livejournal.com/20125.html).

Probably the first thing I wanted to go over was how much Haste you need to cap Utsu Recast timers...

The combination of Warlock's Chapeau, Duelist's Tabard, and Loqacious Earring will leave you with 21% recast reduction(Goliard Saio works for the body too, if you haven't gotten lucky on your AF2 body drop yet). Tack on Haste and you're at 36%, 14 from the 50% cap.

If you're getting double March that will more than cap you out, however I generally tend to assume the case of 1 March/1 Ballad, giving another 10%~ and leaving you about 4 from the cap. The easiest way to make up the difference is Dusk Gloves + Dusk Ledelsens, however you could also do a combination of Nashira Seraweels/Dusk Ledelsen's or Nashira Crackows and Dusk Gloves.

[eticket109]

Didn't we just have this thread?

Seriously, just search all of Mageo's posts

[LadyKiKi]

And the saga continues!

Otherwise, for those interested:

Spam Dispel, equip every possible (within reason) emnity gear, spam enfeebles, keep stoneskin/shadows up/cure yourself. And don't die.

[eticket109]

Spam Dispel, equip every possible (within reason) emnity gear, spam enfeebles, keep stoneskin/shadows up/cure yourself. And don't die.

that pretty much sums it all up right there.

[Callisto]

Didn't we just have this thread?

Seriously, just search all of Mageo's posts

That's what's linked above, but that got a little http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e127/rprice80/no_thanks.gif.

And don't give that advice out too often.

And the saga continues!

Otherwise, for those interested:

Spam Dispel, equip every possible (within reason) emnity gear, spam enfeebles, keep stoneskin/shadows up/cure yourself. And don't die.

I suppose that's one way to sum it up.
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Also: Sleep 1/2 are more MP:Hate efficient than Dispel, you actually want to spam those and use Dispel to fill in between, unless it's something you do not want to build a Sleep resist(Wyrms).

[Yellow Mage]

Even though Callisto already had a thread about it, it's good that it's brought up: I honestly couldn't agree more with this line.

Forget RDM Melee, RDM Tanking is where it's at, damnit!

*sigh*

I just wish I had more time to get my levels and try out all this stuff.

[eticket109]

And don't give that advice out too often.


I try not to. Heck, I got a little sick to my stomach just typing that out. Though maybe it was the Taco Bell.

[WishMaster3K]

Bind and Blind are also buckets of fun.

I think more than what to have in terms of gear, is how/when to utilize your resources and what is applicable to certain situations.

[LadyKiKi]

Ok, second summary :biggrin:

Assuming best/near best gear (on the top of my mind):

Idle in AF2 Hat/ABody/Morrigan Body
Macro all stoneskin stuff/fast cast stuff when casting stoneskin
All fast cast/haste gear when casting shadows
Spam enfeebles in fast cast gear

Mermaid Ring
Hades Earring x2
Dual Chainsaw Swords
Warwolf Melt
High Breath Mantle/Resentment Cape

Umbra Cape/Jelly Ring/Earth Staff for them ohshit moments.:(

[Tomato_Kai]

Umbra Cape/Jelly Ring/Earth Staff for them ohshit moments.:(

I'd also include a half-pint of Ben & Jerry's and a box of tissues on that list.

[IfritnoItazura]

Why tank Feeler Antlion with RDM? Can it control TP feeding better than NIN? (Dealing with multiple Executioner Antlions really, really sucked, and I'd rather not repeat that experience.)

My favorite setup is NIN, BRD, WHM, SMN for the Feeler tank party. Can replace SMN with SCH for Stoneskin, but we don't have any SCH that high, though either is optional.

[WishMaster3K]

Alrighty then, Ita! Time to address the concerns!

Let me first say that we all know that RDM tanking is situational. I wouldn't go so far as to say "HIGHLY" situational, but for the case of Feeler Antlion, I feel that RDM/NIN works well cause of these reasons:

No damage is being done to it.
It has less than average accuracy
It hits about as hard as a DC
Fast Cast + Haste was good enough

Now, I don't have good gear, by any means. So, I'm just running off the Haste Spell and Fast Cast. Phalanx, Earth Staff and Jelly Ring were my only means of damage mitigation (I sold my Cheviot Cape years ago when I thought I'd never need it again ; ; ), but for the sole reason that there wasn't anyone else dragging hate away from me, and RDM gets decent tools, I did pretty well.

I think that RDM/NIN has a very good deal of balance in this fight, because I get hit just enough times for it to spawn a monster, and then I can go untouched for a good portion of time (giving party chance to kill adds). It is in this instance, that with a RDM/NIN tank, the add party has to be AWESOME, because if they get overwhelmed, then there is but so much a lone RDM/NIN tank can do.

The system worked best with me and a NIN share-tanking. The THF was free to do all the hate grabbing and such on the NIN, and it was easy for me to catch up in hate.

So we covered the "No one else is around to grab hate." Mages have to be notified about cure moderation. Cure 3 and Cure 5 are ok, but Cure 4 seems to grab TOO much hate. Most of the time, my WHMs were bored, but probably getting sick of me, because on Dispel, Blind, Bind, Sleep I and Sleep II, I switch in Enmity Gear, but for my buffs, I put on my "Reduction" gear setup.

Getting hit reduces enmity, but we generate it fast enough and have buffs to cover our asses.

Anything that misses a RDM has horrendous accuracy, and Feeler Antlion missed me on more than one occasion. With my Reduction gear setup, it hits me for 50-70 damage, easily curable. And in addition, it seems that more often than not, I don't get interrupted on Stoneskin, even when I'm getting smacked around, because this whore attacks FAST. I think Stoneskin, and damage reduction is a big reason I was able to survive so long without having extensive Haste, which brings me to my next point-

Callisto ran the numbers, but I wasn't even concerned with that, since I won't have gear like that for a while.. Fast Cast and Haste and self buffs and Quick hate generating tools are a main reason that I feel my RDM build would hold up better than my PLD build.

RDM/NIN on this is essentially self-sufficient, whereas PLD, just like in almost any endgame activity it seems to require an entire stable of characters. A Properly geared NIN can solo tank this (I've seen it done.)

A Lot of balancing is required on the RDM's end. I don't recommend novices doing this... I had to watch my MP, monitor my spell cycle, and make sure I had shadows up when my buffs needed to be reapplied.

And if the fight drags on.. Well after about 20 or so minutes, I had to Convert.. That's where balancing enmity with another tank is essential. The NIN in my LS would voke, and I'd purposely get hit to lower my Enmity, and when it wasn't facing me, I put up shadows and Converted. With full MP, I was back in the fight.

We teamed up with another linkshell for this run, and we were short on NINs, and absolutely refused to have NINs tank the Feeler. The one NIN in our linkshell has no enmity gear and.. well, he can't really tank, so his shadows would fall and the Feeler would be all over the place. Me standing next to him as RDM/WHM and spamming Dispel, Blind, Bind and the Sleeps, and making sure I had all my buffs was good enough to equalize hate with him, so after that one sloppy run, LS Leader had me go sub NIN and try main tanking.

I think that covers everything. Any questions, feel free to add them in. I'll be able to properly document another fight, because we have 3 pops on Tuesday and 3 more on Saturday.

[IfritnoItazura]

IIRC, Feeler Antlion has enmity reset TP move(s)? No?

RDM/NIN is terrific for building enmity over time, but I think large spike enmity is more useful for this fight than enmity over time. The NIN who tanked Feeler in our LS has /DRK and the gears for it ready, but elected to go /WAR, because the extra enmity just isn't needed. (We definitely had the support power for NIN/DRK, too.)

He didn't really hit the Feeler Antlion much; he stayed un-engaged for most of the fight. The controlled TP feeding is done mostly with Ninjutsu instead--he only engage briefly from time to time in order to speed up TP feeding (or relieve boredom--not entirely sure) when deemed safe.

Not that I think Stoneskin, Phalanx, Fast Cast, etc. aren't useful, but taking damage as the primary mean to feed it TP doesn't sound very controlled at all.

* * *

We had several runs, so the details differ slightly from run to run, but the basic set up:

Feeler Party:
NIN/WAR
WHM
BRD
SMN (sometimes)
(rest are extra people who overflowed from other parties; they don't touch Feeler until Alastor pops)

Tank Party:
Tank 1 (usually NIN)
Tank 2 (usually NIN or PLD/NIN)
WHM
RDM
(rest are DDs--melee and BLMs)

Overlfow Party:
WHM
RDM (usually)
(rest are DDs--melee and BLMs)

We deal with Feeler at spawn point; we don't drag it away.

One of the melee is BST--that's our "Add Team". She takes care of any local Tracker Antlion that links, with help from Tank party and Overflow party if they're not busy, but otherwise she can handle up to three (non-NM) Antlion at once by herself.

The Tank party lends a NIN to help if the NIN on Feeler goes down for whatever reason, but otherwise its job is to work with the Overflow Party and destroy Executioners ASAP--so the Feeler party can spawn another.

Once Alastor pops, one NIN from tank party and one RDM (usually me) kites Alastor until everyone else kills Feeler (and any Executioner it may spawn--but Feeler is always killed first). Once that's taken care of, the whole alliance pounces on Alastor. (Well, everyone except the BST--she watches for repop of local Tracker Antlions.)

As for the Alastor fight itself... Umm... When we're low on BLMs, it's SC+MB to make the best use out of their big nukes. When we had a lot of BLMs, they tended to go a little nutty, and WHMs had scramble to get out of Breakga range as the NM run amok... >_>;

I would say RDM/NIN looks to be more forgiving and more self sufficient than a NIN tank, but not sure how it can best control TP feeding; maybe using small nukes? Letting an NM hit a tank for TP just sounds too wild to me. :P

Our NIN did go down on Feeler a few times--nothing like a red dot NIN on Feeler to give an alliance wide heart attack. Another NIN was able to grab the critter with relative ease when that happened, even though he didn't touch the Feeler beforehand.

[Callisto]

We typically do things like this with the holding tank solo or with one WHM, having /blockaid on so that outside members can't cure and generate hate on the holding tank(this addresses Ita's Enmity reset concern). A DRG/BLU is on links, and the rest of the group is on the ones that Feeler pops.

And to address TP control Itaz, probably the best way is Dia II/III for 1 point of damage and avoid getting hit outside of that, otherwise Aero I would probably be sufficient.
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Ok, second summary :biggrin:

Assuming best/near best gear (on the top of my mind):

Idle in AF2 Hat/ABody/Morrigan Body
Macro all stoneskin stuff/fast cast stuff when casting stoneskin
All fast cast/haste gear when casting shadows
Spam enfeebles in fast cast gear

Mermaid Ring
Hades Earring x2
Dual Chainsaw Swords
Warwolf Melt
High Breath Mantle/Resentment Cape

Umbra Cape/Jelly Ring/Earth Staff for them ohshit moments.:(

Heh part of the reason I'm doing this is to show that RDM tanking is possible without this gear, I think maybe 3 of the RDMs on this forum even have some combination of Duelist's Chapeau and/or A.Body, I'm certainly not one of them.

And RDM can get twice as much Enmity from 2x Eris' Earrings rather than the Hades, for about 1/5 the gil cost.
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Some of the technical business for those who are interested in terms of RDM building hate...

I'm sure most of you know about the currently popular hate model of CE + VE = TE from the Kanican blog, with CE being Cumulative Enmity which does not decay over time but does decrease when damage is taken, and VE being Volatile Enmity which decays over time as well when Utsusemi shadows are taken.

Part of the reason why RDM tanking works so well is that most of the spells RDM uses for hate build both forms of Enmity simultaneously, whereas most of the JAs and Spells from other forms of tanking give large chunks of VE but little CE, meaning they need to be used at spiked intervals to maintain a higher TE than the rest of the party members. The idea behind RDM/NIN is that while you're working to build your VE, your CE is being boosted greatly, and most competing enmity from DDs is going to be VE, so that once hate is yours it's on like glue.

As stated above, the main hate tools for RDM are Sleep I and II, Dispel, and Blind.

Sleeps and Dispel all build the same amount of CE and VE when used, while not giant chunks they are moderate and build up. Sleep 1 and Dispel both make the same amount, though Sleep 1 costs slightly less MP. Dispel has a much faster recast though, making it ideal for building hate early in the fight. Sleep II is slightly more MP than Dispel, though greater hate than the other 2 spells it also has a longer recast timer.

Blind is your main VE spell, it's worth slightly more than 1/3 a Provoke and 1/2 of Flash. Bind also makes the same amount as Blind, though it has a much longer recast timer, and in kited fights Bind can sometimes accidentally MPK a party member if you accidentally stick the spell, so I try to avoid using it in my rotation.

Ideally you would open with Sleep II, then Sleep I, then spam Dispel for a few until Sleep II is back up. Without an opening TA it is sometimes advised to have the DDs give you maybe 10-15 seconds to make some hate before they jump in, although that approach doesn't typically work with the ones in my LS. ^^; Once you have about 8~ casts in and some reasonable CE built up it's good to start working in Blind and cycling between all 4 spells.

If you've gotten around 30 casts (other than Blind) in and you've not been taking any damage it'd be a good time to save some MP and use Blind only for a bit, as your CE should be near capped.

[WishMaster3K]

My MP concerns probably could have been alleviated if I kept track of my spells, but Ita, I think you misread my post-

I wasn't INTENTIONALLY getting hit, it just worked out that I got hit just enough for it generate a decent amount of TP. It worked out that I would get hit for damage a few times, and in that time it was hitting me for 50-70 and generating TP, I was waiting for the recast timers to fall, and when both were up, I was able to tank almost flawlessly again.

It's a precarious dance to perform, but it's possible.

[Lmnop]

Probably the first thing I wanted to go over was how much Haste you need to cap Utsu Recast timers...

The combination of Warlock's Chapeau, Duelist's Tabard, and Loqacious Earring will leave you with 21% recast reduction(Goliard Saio works for the body too, if you haven't gotten lucky on your AF2 body drop yet). Tack on Haste and you're at 36%, 14 from the 50% cap.

If you're getting double March that will more than cap you out, however I generally tend to assume the case of 1 March/1 Ballad, giving another 10%~ and leaving you about 4 from the cap. The easiest way to make up the difference is Dusk Gloves + Dusk Ledelsens, however you could also do a combination of Nashira Seraweels/Dusk Ledelsen's or Nashira Crackows and Dusk Gloves.

What am I missing, here?

Fast Cast -- just the traits that you get for being a RDM 75, looks to give 20% haste. Are you trying to say you're capping the Utsu cast time, not the recast time? Because Recast, you have 20 FC, 10% AF hat, 15% Haste spell... you're already @45%. Then tack on Swift belt for 4% more haste and you seem to be golden with very little gear investment (2 pieces, in fact). If you really need that extra 1%, you know where the Blitz Rings are kept.

As for actual casting time reduction: Relic body, AF head, Loq earring = 21% cast time reduction. And it looks like that's the best a RDM can do w/out /sch...

[WishMaster3K]

Fast Cast (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Fast_Cast)

So it seems that with the AF Hat and our native Traits, we get -15% off Recast.

Fast Cast I
Casting time -10%, recast -5%
* Obtained: Red Mage Level 15

Fast Cast II
Casting time -5%, recast -2.5%
* Obtained: Red Mage Level 35

Fast Cast III
Casting time -5%, recast -2.5%
* Obtained: Red Mage Level 55
Equipment that Enhances this Trait

* Warlock's Chapeau / Warlock's Chapeau+1 (Casting time -10%, recast -5%)
* Warlock's Mantle (Casting time -2%, recast -1%)
* Duelist's Tabard / Duelist's Tabard+1 (Casting time -10%, recast -5%)
* Rostrum Pumps (Casting time -2%, recast -1%)
* Loquacious Earring (Casting time -2%, recast -1%)
* Homam Cosciales (Casting time -4%, recast -2%)
* Marduk's Jubbah (Casting time -5%, recast -2.5%)
* Marduk's Jubbah Set (Casting time -10%, recast -5%)
* Pi Ring (Salvage Only: ???%)
Haste gained from magic caps at approximately 43.75%.
Recast time reduction is capped at 50% from all sources.

So Haste is the same as Reduction? IE, 15% Haste reduces delay and recast by 15%?

[Callisto]

What am I missing, here?

Fast Cast -- just the traits that you get for being a RDM 75, looks to give 20% haste. Are you trying to say you're capping the Utsu cast time, not the recast time? Because Recast, you have 20 FC, 10% AF hat, 15% Haste spell... you're already @45%. Then tack on Swift belt for 4% more haste and you seem to be golden with very little gear investment (2 pieces, in fact). If you really need that extra 1%, you know where the Blitz Rings are kept.

As for actual casting time reduction: Relic body, AF head, Loq earring = 21% cast time reduction. And it looks like that's the best a RDM can do w/out /sch...

1) I was on an all-nighter at work yesterday and totally omitted Swift Belt.

2) You got Fast Cast backards, the FC# is the amount off of cast time, while the recast reduction is half of that.

Fast Cast + AF Hat + AF2 Body + Loq gives 42% off casting time, 21% off of recast. Add on Haste(spell) to 36%, Swift to 40%, leaves you missing 10% which is easily made up by a single Victory March. Thanks for reminding me of Swift.

Also, in regards to /SCH and casting time reduction, I think that minimum casting time may be capped around 40%, as when I played with /SCH I didn't seem to noticeably break the 42%~ that I usually cast at w/ Chapeau/Tabard/Loq.
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So Haste is the same as Reduction? IE, 15% Haste reduces delay and recast by 15%?

Yes, the Haste % is the % taken directly off of recast. Basic RDM(JTs, AF1, Haste) leaves you needing 20%, 14% with AF2/Loq.

[WishMaster3K]

Well 5% can be knocked off directly from Dusk, so I'll theoretically be missing 15% off the cap, and that's just AHed gear. Swift Belt (which is feasibly easily obtainable) would bring it to 11%...

Thanks, Callisto!

[Callisto]

'feasibly easily obtained' lol ^^;

I'm still dreading popping my codex, LSmate just got his swift, he went 1/21. :wasted:

[WishMaster3K]

:-/ That's not even anything near being funny. I'm trying to see how it would be possible for me to solo the DC Taurus'.

I might have to raise Ninja to 40 and then do it that way.

[Callisto]

If you have BST or BLU at or near 40 that's probably the easiest way, both of those jobs smoke them. My LSmate has BST and actually had some very good luck on Codex drop rate at the least, so it wasn't super difficult for him to attempt the Swift Belt NMs, but still that's gotta be an excruciating drop rate.

From the runs I've actually attended I've seen it drop about 4/15, although other LSmates have said that their runs went like 7/8 when they got theirs, so it seems a bit up in the air.

[IfritnoItazura]

I refuse to do Swift Belt runs without a Thief anymore; it's like tossing a perfectly good Fomor Codex when popping the NM sans Thief.

[Lmnop]

1) I was on an all-nighter at work yesterday and totally omitted Swift Belt.

2) You got Fast Cast backards, the FC# is the amount off of cast time, while the recast reduction is half of that.

Between the 2 of us we'll get it right!

[Tokagawa]

leave tanking to Paladins, ninjas, and warrior RAWR! ;]

[Silent Howler]

So...is Red Mage tanking viable for exp parties? And if so, when does it start?

[WishMaster3K]

Ruic started at level 52 (http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/red-mage/43927-experimentation-rdm-tanking.html).

But I suppose that as soon as we get Haste, then maybe.

[Callisto]

So...is Red Mage tanking viable for exp parties? And if so, when does it start?

I personally don't find it viable for XP parties, at least not in the /NIN sense that we've been discussing. For the most part, RDM requires more time than other tanks to gain hate, though once they have hate they have much more solid hate than any other type of tank. In a normal XP party, the mob is going to be half dead and hate will be all over the place before a RDM can reign it in without the use of TA.

For the most part I'm considering this for HNM-type mobs where you have the time necessary to build hate.
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leave tanking to Paladins, ninjas, and warrior RAWR! ;]

I'm actually currently taking PLD to 75 as well, it's kind of a win-win situation: Either I collect several unwanted Askar/AF+1/AF2 scraps on my way to 75 and ding into nice gear, and I get to use the Enmity gear I have from RDM already, or I don't get any decent gear and the fact that my PLD is so mediocre makes my LS leader complain less about me tanking as RDM. :thumbsup:

[Callisto]

I finally got to attempt a 'real' tanking scenario over the weekend with Proto-Omega. I co-tanked with a PLD, and it was actually much easier than I expected it to be, I think primarily due to Omega not having Double Attack. It was a relatively low-manned run, 12 members, tank party of RDM(me) PLD RDM BRD BRD SCH, then BLU RDM RDM SAM DRK BLM for the DDs.

I was using stuffs along these lines:Macahuitl +1 x2
Lamian Kaman
Warlock's Chapeau +1
Harmonia's Torque
Eris' Earring
Loquacious Earring
Duelist's Tabard
Duelist's Gloves
Balrahn Ring(really need a Mermaid's :/)
Bomb Queen Ring
Resentment Cape
Warwolf Belt
Crimson Cuisses
Crimson Greaves
It came out to +19 Enmity including merits, while my PLD co-tank had +36, which I figured would be a bit of an issue but we decided that he wouldn't use Sentinel or Rampart unless it was really needed. I used Carbonara for the extra HP, when full I sat around 1460.

After the initial Spirits Within the PLD used Flash/Shield Bash, and I figured I'd have trouble getting hate, but after my first 2 volleys of Dispel/Sleep/Sleep 2 I started pulling it. We ping-ponged Omega for a good while, then the PLD took a decent chunk of damage from something. I topped him off with a Cure IV and bam, hate was all mine for the next 6 minutes or so. I tanked him without any problems down to 25%, then the PLD took over to kite it so that we could milk Gunpod pops. I will say this, while RDM spells make some really nice hate, they're nothing compared to Sentinel + Rampart + Shield Bash. The PLD did this to take over for kiting, and it took me nearly 8 minutes to create enough hate to get Omega to even look at me, and even then it took me Converting and dropping 3 Cure4's on myself to do it.

Other things I took away from the fight: 1) Tanking as RDM is busy as shit compared to other tanks. It was somewhat difficult to count shadows while constantly casting hate spells and keeping an eye on Refresh/Haste, though I changed the font color for my evades/shadows so they stood out from the log, and that helped a good amount. 2) Capped recast timers is insane. There were spans where Paralyze would proc a couple of times and I'd parry, and wouldn't even be using Ichi because Ni would be back up before all 3 shadows were taken, and the low Stoneskin timer was fantastic. And lastly, 3) MP was very easy to keep up with 2x Ballad, but I have to wonder how it'd be with only 1 BRD. I was a little worried going into the fight with only 600~ MP, but it was never an issue, although I can see the value of having Chapeau/A.Body/Morrigan's for tanking.

The main LS tank won't be able to make Sky tonight, so I'm hoping to give Suzaku + Seiryu a try after work.

[Kittyneko]

Red Mage tanking has been a lot for HNM and similiar situations (such as Limbus) since a long time, hasn't it? I've always seen Red Mage's tank.

[Callisto]

Red Mage tanking has been a lot for HNM and similiar situations (such as Limbus) since a long time, hasn't it? I've always seen Red Mage's tank.

It really depends on the server from what I've seen. Some servers like Bahamut(and I suppose Hades since you've seen it often) had it catch on a good while ago, Ramuh is generally a bit slow to adapt to new forms of tanking though, even PLD/NIN got a slow start here, and NIN/WAR held out for a very long time over NIN/DRK. Hell, there's still some Sky shells here that PLD/WAR tank(which makes for some very hard-to-watch Faust fights).

RDM tanking is still very uncommon on Ramuh, I've actually never seen another shell do it outside of my own, and we've only been trying it for a few weeks. I think a good amount of this has to do with the fact that there's about 8 kabillion 75 PLDs here(kind of funny b/c there's only about 4 Aegis here, and 2 are transfers from other servers), and a PLD can't exactly jump into a different party role when not tanking the way RDM can, so RDMs backline it and PLDs tank.

[Taskmage]

Heh, coincidentally Feeler Antlion was the first major thing I tanked as rdm too. I think it would've worked well, but the whole thing went downhill when for some reason nobody was able to target or otherwise pull off the executioner. Freak bug ftl.

rdm/nin can easily solo the DC taurus in sacrarium if you know how to time ichi and fight unlocked for mortal ray. nin/thf would probably have a much easier time, but rdm/nin is doable. Last week my shell made a big run for everyone that wanted belts, made 12 pops, got 5 drops. I believe we had TH2 for all. 1/21 is insanely bad luck, but you know even if the drop rate was 90% there would still be some poor schmuck going ofer 50.

I've only gotten to tank a few big baddies in limbus, FL assault and random stuff like Eald'narche. It's definately a lot of fun. The inability the ramp hate quickly is pretty much our one weakness, but if you can avoid hate resets there's pretty much no turning a mob from you once you get going. My first Omega the pld I was cotanking with popped Invincible toward the end and still didn't get hate.

One thing I'd like to add to the discussion is there is no magic setup that works for everything. Sometimes you need all the fast cast and haste you can get like with Goldemar (shadow wiping MFer ><) but other times you're up against stuff that's no threat to your shadows but can breath you for 1k+ so you need to focus on hp and damage -%. Likewise depending on who's backing you up the value of your gear changes. Most of the time when I'm tanking my relic hat is useless because I've got more than enough refresh from support players, but against the right mob with a scholar at your back a janky swap like suirin obi can be your best friend. It's all about knowing what your allies and enemies are capable of. :) Great stuff.

[Yellow Mage]

Freak bug ftl.

/slap

[Taskmage]

No pun intended. <.<

[IfritnoItazura]

No pun was possible; antlions belong to the order of Neuroptera, while "bugs" are Hemiptera. Totally different.

(Yes, I had to wiki those terms.)

[Icemage]

It really depends on the server from what I've seen. Some servers like Bahamut(and I suppose Hades since you've seen it often) had it catch on a good while ago, Ramuh is generally a bit slow to adapt to new forms of tanking though, even PLD/NIN got a slow start here, and NIN/WAR held out for a very long time over NIN/DRK. Hell, there's still some Sky shells here that PLD/WAR tank(which makes for some very hard-to-watch Faust fights).
Eh... a decently equipped PLD/WAR will still do better than PLD/NIN against Faust in most cases. Better aggro control, and shadows don't help much against Typhoon anyway.

Granted, it's one of the few cases where I'd advocate PLD/WAR over PLD/NIN at endgame these days, but it remains viable.

RDM tanking is still very uncommon on Ramuh, I've actually never seen another shell do it outside of my own, and we've only been trying it for a few weeks. I think a good amount of this has to do with the fact that there's about 8 kabillion 75 PLDs here(kind of funny b/c there's only about 4 Aegis here, and 2 are transfers from other servers), and a PLD can't exactly jump into a different party role when not tanking the way RDM can, so RDMs backline it and PLDs tank.
I never see RDM tanking here on Midgardsormr on anything serious.


Icemage

[IfritnoItazura]

No clue what the rest of Ifrit are doing, but 90% of the time my endgame/event LS uses Paladin. Mostly Tarutaru Paladins. ._.

We do use a pair PLD and RDM tank/kiters for Kirin, though. (Yes, Tarutarus again--or, "bite sized baits", as I call them.)

[Callisto]

I got to do Kirin again last night, and this time put alot of effort into straight tanking as much as possible once the minis were down. I actually was surprised that I was able to survive and hold hate with the constant cure bombing the WHMs were doing.

I don't know if Kirin is programmed to behave to only use certain moves when you stand in a certain spot, but I got tagged with the Bind TP move he has, so turned and decided to just tank it toe to toe, slapped on my magic reduction gear for Whirlwind/Sandstorm...and he used absolutely nothing but Heat Breath. Like 12-15 straight Heat Breaths, with me stuck right in his face, was doing about 600~ a pop. Since I didn't have to worry about shadows I just kept spamming Stoneskin and Cure IV on myself, but it was really odd to not see a single different TP move for almost 2 minutes, and I never thought I'd sit and hope to see Kirin hit me with Great Whirlwind...

I'm getting better at solo tanking, but it was really cool to work with our main PLD, the LS leader. It's funny b/c I guess the first endgame shell we were in together about 2 years ago he couldn't stand me b/c he thought I was a bit of a diva, but now we've played together enough that we're incredibly in tune w/ each other. Seiryu popped early at one point, took my last shadow, then I got hit w/ Bind from Kirin and Gravity from Seiryu, PLD saw Grav land and dropped party, ran over and started cure bombing me until Seiryu was claimed by someone, somehow I held out until Grav/Bind wore w/o Kirin beating me down and was able to get back to kiting.

And to top it off, holy shit @ this:

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e127/rprice80/kirinpool.jpg