Quickest Way to Sam?

[Moonlancer]

So... i recently came back to the game, and my end-goal is a SAM character. Whats the "quickest" way to reach SAM? i am thinking about taking MNK to 18-20, getting my subjob quest done, then taking WAR or THF to 37 or so. Ive played a WAR/NIN to 40 before, so i have a decent understanding of the class to there, but ive never played a THF or MNK past 20. should i relevel as a war? or is thf an acceptable SJ for a while? also, as far as money goes, i robbed my old char before i remade, couldnt stand the male Hume anymore... so i have a decent chunk of money to work with.

any help or tips are appreciated, thank you in advance! :)

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

WAR, RNG THF and NIN are all subjobs you're going to want for SAM, possibly even DRG these days if you're into the Haste craze.

WAR and THF are big subjobs for SAM, but they're not the only ones. RNG and NIN also have thier situational uses.

[Mog]

Sam/Dnc! =p

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

oh yeah, DNC too :P

[Neomage]

You will want WAR first for 0-30 at a very minimum, after which THF becomes acceptable, but not really powerful until 60. I would suggest:

MNK/ 1-18
WAR/MNK 1-37
SAM/WAR 1-60

At this point, you have several options available to you,. but I would at the very leats get THF to 37 before taking SAM the rest of the way to 37. You will need DNC if you want to campaign, and RNG for heavy DD.

[Malacite]

The "fastest" way to 30 by far will be to do WHM (for invites) but I strongly recommend starting as MNK or THF and taking those to 18 then doing WAR to 37 (to get it out of the way) and then get SAM.

[Moonlancer]

Yeah, i think i will do mnk to 20ish, then war to 37, ill prolly toss in leveling thf some before i get sam incase i need to farm any :)

thanks for the tips

[Icemage]

The "fastest" way to 30 by far will be to do WHM (for invites) but I strongly recommend starting as MNK or THF and taking those to 18 then doing WAR to 37 (to get it out of the way) and then get SAM.
I don't think WHM is the fastest ticket to 30 any longer, if we're talking about realistic situations. The "fastest" way to higher levels is from a PL'd party, and while I'm not a big advocate of such, the optimal jobs to build a PL party from are damage jobs; explicitly Monk and Warrior for a starting player.

For a newcomer to the game, I would never recommend a PL party, as certain things need to be learned the hard way for them to sink in properly, but for someone who has played the game previously, this is the fastest and easiest path, though it requires a bit of luck.


Icemage

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Or we could just not advocate PL at all because its every bit as slow as levelling normally. The only difference is you have outside assistance (i.e. a witless, untalented mage or shell of a former player with nothing better to do or no better use, which is sad since mages generally should be able to find something to do).

FFXI doens't have real power-levelling at all, period. The EXP caps no matter how many levels higher it is than you. FFXI is the only MMO I know of that does this and, hence, doesn't have actual PLing within the game as I've known other MMOs are far less restrictive and WILL let you get the godly EXP of a mob way higher level than you.

Power-levelling highly damaging to tanking roles and healer roles as well. For tanks (of which, WAR is commonly used for at lower levels) you don't learn a thing about holding mob hate when you have a PL. And I hate to say it, but no matter how many times people have been around the block, it doesn't mean they knew what they were doing the first time. Otherwise, dunes PTs with Rank 10 players wouldn't be the same hell as it is with newbies.

For the healers, they don't learn MP conservation or efficient use of MP when a PL is present. This breeds White Mages who never learn to use Regen Spells and also use the highest tier cures they have, which is usually compeltely unneccessary.

While it does less damage to melee roles, it does rob you of weapon skill-up opportunities and the ability to learn how to set up Skillchains as you level up, forcing you to look elsewhere for a means to get skillups down the road. Fighting mobs appropriate for your level - as opposed to the ones too powerful for your level, which PLed PTs gravititate toward - will give you more chances to skill your weapons up.

[Icemage]

Or we could just not advocate PL at all. Its highly damaging to tanking roles and healer roles as well. For tanks (of which, WAR is commonly used for at lower levels) you don't learn a thing about holding mob hate when you have a PL.
I agree, but the OP mentioned this isn't his first time playing and he was up to WAR40/NIN20 previously. As such, I would expect he knows at least the basics (and hence my disclaimer above about not normally advocating PL).

For the healers, they don't learn MP conservation or efficient use of MP when a PL is present. This breeds White Mages who never learn to use Regen Spells and also use the highest tier cures they have, which is usually compeltely unneccessary.

While it does less damage to melee roles, it does rob you of weapon skill-up opportunities as you level up, forcing you to look elsewhere for a means to get them down the road. Fighting mobs appropriate for your level - as opposed to the ones too powerful for your level, which PLed PTs gravititate toward - will give you more chances to skill your weapons up.
I don't really think the lack of weapon skill thing is that large an issue. A halfway extended stint in a regular XP party (which most players will be in regardless by at least level 30) will set insufficient weapon skill levels right in fairly short order as long as they bring some ACC up foods to make up the shortfall until the skill levels come up to scratch.

As for healers, it's never appropriate for new healers to take a PL, as it develops terrible habits, but that's not under discussion here (is it?).


Icemage

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

I aim to be comprehensive when I address an issue :P

[Malacite]

Well, you COULD have a COR or BRD join a low level party inbetween EXP chains but other than that yah there really isn't any power leveling.

[Kittyneko]

WAR, RNG THF and NIN are all subjobs you're going to want for SAM, possibly even DRG these days if you're into the Haste craze.

WAR and THF are big subjobs for SAM, but they're not the only ones. RNG and NIN also have thier situational uses.

If you mention Ninja as subjob for Samurai again, I might just have to... darn it, can't think of anything funny at the moment. ~.~ Just know the consequences will be very horrifying.


@ Moonlancer:
You'll do great for a long long while with just having Warrior leveled as sub. Though at some point you'll also definitely want Thief. This is enough to get you to 75 at least if you'd want to. Eventually as you start to get into the game a bit again, you'll know what other subs you might want to use.

[Ameroth]

Power-levelling highly damaging to tanking roles and healer roles as well. For tanks (of which, WAR is commonly used for at lower levels) you don't learn a thing about holding mob hate when you have a PL.

Not to mention PLDs (and WARs) miss out on those early shield, parry, and evasion skills because the party is yelling "DONNNOT voke of PL!!1" at him. I usually get kicked out around that time because I start telling the tank to voke off PL anyway if he wants to, and then the party, along with the PL (who is friends with one of the party members), calls me a nub and argues with me until I leave or get kicked.

Oh no. I lost a dunes party.

For the healers, they don't learn MP conservation or efficient use of MP when a PL is present. This breeds White Mages who never learn to use Regen Spells and also use the highest tier cures they have, which is usually compeltely unneccessary.

I had this exact situation two nights ago leveling SAM in L. Delkfutt's Tower and then to Kazham. Only healer was a WHM, who did pretty alright considering the circumstances (4xDD, 1xNIN, 1xhealer), but he was constantly using cure III when a cure II would have far sufficed, and using cure II when anyone had more than 10 damage; rarely used cure1. I woulda harped on him a lil more, but like I said he was doing OK for the most part being a newbie WHM in a DD heavy party. Just slowed us down a little more waiting on MP.

[Moonlancer]

Thanks for all the tips everyone. I am currently taking MNK through dunes and to get my SJ quest done. After that, its war to 37, then sam for a while :D

i will pick up thf before my sam hits 60 (SATA then, right?)

and yeah, i have experience tanking and whatnot up to 40, so i wont miss any learning as gar as that goes, but i dont like PL's anyways, i think its more fun to do it with just the party :)

[Vadrace]

When I leveled my NIN to 37, I 2 boxed and PL'd our group, but we have a static for the most part and we were just leveling subs. The majority of us know how to play very well. I tried to keep the mob on me and not the PL, as I was using my 52BLM to do it, and it was taking a beating at the end there. I did alright.

Anyways, I got a few questions about SAM for all you uber SAM's out there:

What is this nerf people are talking about that happened recently? (Like, end of 07 or something)

I've leveled WAR, NIN, currently leveling DRG to 37, and I plan on doing THF and RNG later, but will my DPS still be good just goin /WAR?

What are some musts for SAM? I'm currently 18, waiting for our static to round out their subs before I start the trek to 75, and I've been farming for gear and stuff. This month I've gotten the Empress Hairpen, O Kotes, and the haste boots from Castle O. I've also got Bounding Boots, but I figure I'd probably switch to Mitra RSE boots.

Also, ACC or ATK? I'm going to be having a COR in my party. I'm trying to figure out how much ACC I need to have before I start stacking ATK. From leveling to 18, and my friend leveling it to 37, it seemed like I didn't need to stack DEX in the early levels like how I used to with WAR and DRK. I seemed to hit pretty consistently with just Bounding Boots and STR rings. Any thoughts on this?

I hope I'm not coming across as needy. I'm just trying to maximize my potential. : )

[Vadrace]

Anyone have any answers for my above questions? Purty please?

[eticket109]

SAM wasn't nerfed. It was buffed beyond belief and then it got scaled back a bit. People seem to forget that first part. It used to be that 2 STR = 1 attack and 2 DEX = 1 acc, then SE changed it to 1 STR = 1 atk and 1 DEX = 1 acc for 2 handers. This was fun, but ultimately broken. They changed it again so that it's closer to a 1.5/1 ratio now.

In most cases, exp parties tend to overreach on mobs, so stacking Accuracy is the way to go. Play around with it though. Once you get past 40s and start to use sushi more, you can start layering more attack.

[Ryoii/Nonomii]

Personally I preferred fighting piercing weak enemies (25% DMG bonus against Mandragora, Birds, and Bats) with a Polearm while stacking on the ACC and DEX and eating ATK foods. Great Katana just cannot compete until you have a Soboro at Lv50.

[Malacite]

SAM wasn't nerfed. It was buffed beyond belief and then it got scaled back a bit. People seem to forget that first part. It used to be that 2 STR = 1 attack and 2 DEX = 1 acc, then SE changed it to 1 STR = 1 atk and 1 DEX = 1 acc for 2 handers. This was fun, but ultimately broken. They changed it again so that it's closer to a 1.5/1 ratio now.

Eh it wan't that broken. It was the changes to Y/G/K and 2 handed damage that did it.

[Vadrace]

And are the changes to Y/G/K you refer to have to deal with the change in the modifier at 100 tp?

[Nuriko]

Might I suggest getting THF to 15 as soon as possible for farming purposes? Also, people always seem to promote the idea of taking one job as far as you can before moving on ... might it be better to just set priorities, but seek on the job that's likeliest to get a good PT given who else is about?

[eticket109]

And are the changes to Y/G/K you refer to have to deal with the change in the modifier at 100 tp?

yeah, they changed all the modifiers around. most of the two handed weaponskills were insanely broken. those were fun times though.

[VZX]

Eh it wan't that broken. It was the changes to Y/G/K and 2 handed damage that did it.
The change from 1 DEX -> 1 acc was completely broken
Assuming most people can get 70 total DEX at 75, they recieve +35 extra acc bonus.
It feels like you're giving Accuracy Bonus III to 2 hander

[Malacite]

And yet the majority of the strongest weapons in the game are still 1 handed :P


I'll concede the 1:1 on DEX was somewhat over kill but it was so damn nice not having to freaking use sushi all the time while it lasted. At level 75 the 1:1 ratio averaged at about an extra 50 points for most of the jobs which while pretty nice, still wasn't all that game-breaking. It basically allowed us to fight without a BRD :)


The changes to Y/G/K at 100 TP along with the greatly increased damage to high def/higher level enemies was what really pushed the jobs over the limit. DRG was pulling over 3000 dmg Skewers on G. Colibri after the initial update because we basically had RNG's old uncapped damage for a while. Then SE scaled it down a bit to around where Ranged Attacks are now, and then scaled it yet again (bastards) to somewhere in between 1 handers and Ranged, as well as resetting the Y/G/K mods to what they were before (once again cementing Hagun's obscene dominance and sale price -.- )