How is Warrior these days?

[Asmodai]

I'm new to this game and obviously im about 6 years late. I've played too many other games in the mean time and WoW is NOT one of them. I have played guildwars but it seems it doesnt come near to the specialization of this game.

So, I wanted to ask before I got to far. Is warrior an alright class? Has the game changed any in the last year that a different class is more perferable. I have several friends that just started playing and I just want to help the team when we are on. We are also friends with a current guild so we have help when needed. I'm bored at work and decided to ask here to get a general consensus. Thanks

Asmodai

[Armando]

Warrior is a good job if you want to do damage and like axes/two-handed axes. However, don't expect to be the tank of the party past the 30's - PLD and NIN will always be invited over WAR for that purpose.

Although the game has changed much in the last year, the balance of power between DD jobs is pretty good, so just pick whichever job you like.

[Malacite]

Warrior - FFXIclopedia - a Wikia Gaming wiki (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Warrior)

[Silent Howler]

In today's age of Vana'diel, Warrior is 3rd in line with tanking jobs, behind Ninja and Paladin. Warrior is mainly used as a sub job for these other two tanking jobs, and if Warrior is above sub job level then it more often gets places in the Damage Dealer role. The most recent addition to Warrior was a new ability called Retaliation (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Retaliation). This may put Warrior back into the tanking role post level 60, but it is very new and people are still examining its effectiveness.

[Malacite]

This may put Warrior back into the tanking role post level 60, but it is very new and people are still examining its effectiveness.

It won't. It doesn't mitigate damage at all, just basically has a chance of giving you a free hit on the mob.

[IfritnoItazura]

Warriors can--and do--tank (to some extend) in merit parties, but that's a pretty long ways off from just starting off. It's also used as a tank in some special fights; one of my LS's CoP groups used a WAR to tank the pot x4 fight--that was a success.

In any case, a good player on WAR alwasy should be prepared to be an off-tank--ready to take over if the main tank gets in trouble. Or, be a co-tank, sharing the duty. Or, be the main tank.

* * *

It's still a bit early, but if you play WAR, and like it, you should also plan for several support jobs:

/MNK (Monk)
/NIN (Ninja)
/SAM (Samurai)
/DNC (Dancer)
/THF (Thief)

Monk as a support job has fairly short lifespan for WAR; it's not that useful unless a WAR is tanking, and most WARs don't tank much after Lv.30. Dancer is fairly specialized, most useful in party lacking curing power, while Thief support job is for helping out the main tanks.

Ninja (and increasing, Samurai, for two-handed axe users) are the main support jobs used by Warriors, but they don't offer too much at lower levels.

In any case, you'd need to reach Lv.30 before you can unlock extra jobs like Ninja, Samurai, or Dancer--the first support job to worry over is Monk, which is already unlocked from the start.

[nanatsu]

It won't. It doesn't mitigate damage at all, just basically has a chance of giving you a free hit on the mob.

And I really don't understand why they've done that. Wasn't WAR already fine enough with damage on its own? Were they thinking it was a means of generating more hate for tanking purposes? If so it seems like a movement in the wrong direction and I can't understand SE's train of thought at all in this.

[Deeke]

You're evidently inclined towards melee-style classes. That said, you WILL need to take WAR to level 37 anyway as it's a vital subjob for other damage-dealing jobs. For now, simply make that your goal. :P

Consider doing something like

- Monk to 18
- Unlock Subjob
- Warrior to 37
(- at some point during this take THF up to 15, for general farming purposes and as an extra option for WAR30+)

I can guarantee you that after you hit WAR37, you yourself will have a much greater understanding of the game and its jobs. :)

[Lmnop]

Deeke speaks truths. That path is one many many many of us wish we had known to take on our 1st time through.

To expand on the subbing Thief bit -- /thf is completely useless until 30. But after that, it's great fun to get yourself killed with (nutty-good damage). All the same, for those 7 levels (30-37), just using /mnk is all-around good.

Nanatsu, Malacite: that's not the point. Retaliation is incentive. What's wrong with Warrior blood tanking is that in order to do so at higher levels, you have to specialize in defensive gear. To the point that you're not doing much better damage than a paladin (and a hybrid PLD probably has you beat, at that).

As a baseline benefit, Retaliation makes it easier to continue to do great damage while tanking. But of course, we all know the real reason is to give more tp to war/dnc tanks. ^^

If you decide on Warrior -- don't listen to your instincts. Shield Break is better.

[Deeke]

THF15 is just... it's just good. You'll NEVER regret having it at your disposal, even if you never ever sub the job in combat. The Treasure Hunter trait makes a huge difference to your item-farming capabilities.

Don't take THF to the Dunes. Just slowly slowly chip away at it on nights when you just want to kick back. Take it to Sarutabaruta or somewhere and slay Easy Prey after Easy Prey at your own pace and leisure. You'll make some gil on crystals, you'll farm up a whole heap of Beastmen's Seals. Tis a Good Thing.


And about Shield Break. It's a fantastic weaponskill, no two ways about it. Possibly the best one out there at those levels. Some WAR's say Shield Break only. Others say Sturmwind only (war24ish+). Myself, I valued having both at my fingertips and tended to use each as I saw fit. Between those two weaponskills, WAR really shines as a TP-user in the first half of the game.

[Malacite]

I can't understand SE's train of thought at all in this.

You and I both. And it very much is the point because you may as well throw a MNK with counterstance up at the mob instead. We have C- evasion and lack the defensive abilities of a PLD which basically leaves us screwed in a long fight. Hell, even in "tanking" gear I can still get my ass handed to me as WAR/NIN by an EP Colibri if I don't watch it, where as my 75 SAM will run right over the buggers thanks to the B+ evasion and helpful WS (Yuki and Kasha are life savers along with Seigan)


What SE needs to do is make wearing the really heavy armors that only WAR and PLD can matter.

[LyonheartLakshmi]

And I really don't understand why they've done that. Wasn't WAR already fine enough with damage on its own? Were they thinking it was a means of generating more hate for tanking purposes? If so it seems like a movement in the wrong direction and I can't understand SE's train of thought at all in this.
It wasn't a movement at all in any direction. WAR was just fine as it was all around, not just in the damage department.

I rather enjoyed how WAR was the crocodile job of FFXI -- it hadn't really changed at all since its creation.

[Lmnop]

Subtle blow is the only change Mnk has received in some 3 years. =( So they're the new official crocodile.

Malacite: Have you seen a monk's defense with counterstance up? We're talking in the 50s. You may as well be a dunes job. Warrior can get defense quite high... the problem is, doing so sacrifices pretty much all offensive stats. regardless, this is off topic.

On topic: /thf is great for farming. I will not argue that. It's also much higher damage potential for levels 30-37 when you're not the tank (though you will!). I didn't mean to say don't worry about THF. I agree with everything Deeke's been saying. Just... if you can't get around to it, that's also fine. war/mnk is great fun.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

It won't. It doesn't mitigate damage at all, just basically has a chance of giving you a free hit on the mob.

Again, the false definition of WAR tanking rears its ugly head. After shields - which may I note, WARs tend to refuse to use - the only intended form of damage mitigation for WAR comes the NIN subjob. In other words, SE wants WARs to get smacked around, its just FFXI players are too stubborn/stupid/elitist to support that kind of tanking.

It requires a greater party effort, but the tools are all there, wasting away unused. SE has actually added a lot of reasons for players to get smacked around - Drain Samba, Magic Mortar, All those HP latent gears and more, yet main healers think thier job is to top off HP bars. Knight's Minne is never used and only BST and PLD seem to know what shields are.

[Jaice]

Personally I found war/thf to be one of the better damage dealing classes if you are a tad 'touched in the head' nothing says lovin like a sneak attack with a great axe :) then again when I was leveling up warrior my friend and I played a rousing game of "Steal hate from the paladin" every party we were in, actually that game is still fun to date and leads to many nasty deaths. :thumbsup:

War/nin isnt bad for damage from what I remember using an axe in the main hand and a sat boosting sword in my off hand seemed to make weapon skills go by faster and a bit more increase in capability.

I've yet to try /sam or /mnk but those should be comming as soon as I get war past 12 on my new character :cry:

Getting a party should be pretty easy to take you up to 30 or 31 but after that I really couldnt say... it might involve killing bees outside of Jeuno waiting for a party invite for a few hours.

::Side note/mini-rant:: I've seen one whitemage in a dune party since I've been back that actually knew how to keep a warrior tank alive with exposing herself to minimum damage. Too many people are spoiled with power leveling friends and have no idea how to heal >.< grrrr.... /rant

[Armando]

In all fairness, for the first 50 levels, I'd be better off shield breaking than using a shield, even if I'm going to take hits to the face instead of using /NIN, and Knight's Minne is wasted in comparison to Minuet/Madrigal on both PLD and NIN...and if you expect a WAR to tank with his face then he should be /BLU or /DNC. Minne would be wasted on /BLU as well.

Overall the main factor would probably be EXP rate though. It would be interesting to see how well a WAR could tank nowadays, but even if word got out that it can work very well, if it got less EXP than a PLD or a NIN they'd drop it immediately.

[Tomato_Kai]

::Side note/mini-rant:: I've seen one whitemage in a dune party since I've been back that actually knew how to keep a warrior tank alive with exposing herself to minimum damage. Too many people are spoiled with power leveling friends and have no idea how to heal >.< grrrr.... /rant

I almost want to derail a little just to touch on this topic yet again. I hate PL's! ><;


Ok, done.


Back on topic?

War/Thf Seems ok post 30... but, honestly, I can't think of a single reason to go War/Thf before then. War/Mnk would get more... stuff. Higher Str and Vit, more hp, and boost! which is sweet. Also: Never underestimate counter. It is win :D

[Lmnop]

Would like to point out that no one had a problem with accepting Pld/war as the only acceptable PLD tanking layout for upwards of 5 years...

Even if Retaliation was designed for War/dnc, that's a buff to Warrior.

...Assuming the proc rate is good enough on T-IT mobs. I don't believe for a second the 5% figures.


-------------------

To continue down the garden path: There's only been one job I didn't enjoy leveling, and that was my WHM which is only a measly 18. I hated leveling WHM because I realized just how much a difference a PL made. An Elvaan WHM main healer with the best pies or cookies but no Astral Rings can only keep most dunes parties going for ~1-2 fights before taking a full rest.

I hate PLs so much. And I hated even more the realization that the party actually needed one to break 3k/hour (though I blame the other party members here for not having a good enough handle on their own damage intake).

[Malacite]

I'm a 70 MNK, and I tank better with Counterstance, Dodge and Focus up than I do on my WAR most of the time depending on the mob.

I'm well aware of the huge penalties it puts on DEF (which is why I always pop Berserk as well since DEF has already gone down the shitter) and I find it to be fairly irrelevant outside of WS. My point was you're going to get smacked either way, but at least on MNK you have some mitigation abilities and a B+ rank evasion.

WAR has jack squat. Defender really won't do all that much to save your life. (IT's still maul me on BLU with Cocoon and def food, so defender isn't going to help a whole lot) The job has all it needs to get and keep hate, but not to stay alive. C- evasion, and a tiny defensive ability do not compare to the abilities of a NIN or PLD.

From 30+ WAR really just can't take the hits as well anymore. Contrary to what you think BBQ, some of us do explore all our options on the jobs we play and some of them simply just don't pan out as well as we'd like. I'd rather test my luck on SAM/WAR with Seigan up over WAR/SAM or WAR/MNK. I don't think we really need to discuss /NIN at 74+ since it's the same for most melee (save WAR has voke and warcry to spike hate)

Retaliation is nothing more than another TP tool. Now, if it stacked with Counter somehow that'd be great but I seriously doubt that's the case. The best thing SE can do for WAR is make wearing heavy armor actually do something other than marginally increase your DEF over other armors. How about giving WAR and PLD a trait (or simply tweaking the really heavy armors only they can use) that changes the VIT/DEF ratio to 1:1?

[IfritnoItazura]

The best thing SE can do for WAR is make wearing heavy armor actually do something other than marginally increase your DEF over other armors. How about giving WAR and PLD a trait (or simply tweaking the really heavy armors only they can use) that changes the VIT/DEF ratio to 1:1?

Well, as a PLD who's nutty enough to bring both DD and defense gear to exp parties, I can tell the difference between defense armor, offensive gear, Berserk up, Defender up from the amount of damage I'm receiving. It made enough of a difference that at Lv.71, I tanked Puks in full DD gear, and macro'ed to full defense gear for Mamool Ja if that's what the puller brought back. (Think that was before I got Iron Ram Sallet set, so Adaman except feet.) Can tell the difference on Imps, too; tanked those in DD gear since Lv.72, but only used Berserk for WS.

Defense does work--just not always for the best exp/hour.

[Lmnop]

WAR has jack squat. Defender really won't do all that much to save your life. (IT's still maul me on BLU with Cocoon and def food, so defender isn't going to help a whole lot) The job has all it needs to get and keep hate, but not to stay alive. C- evasion, and a tiny defensive ability do not compare to the abilities of a NIN or PLD.

Would like to point out that no one had a problem with accepting Pld/war as the only acceptable PLD tanking layout for upwards of 5 years...

Even if Retaliation was designed for War/dnc, that's a buff to Warrior.

Retaliation may be just a tp trick. But it's a darn good one. Not to say I'm 100% sure war/dnc will become "the next tank!" as much as just... have some faith. Don't be so quick to bring down every change S-E implements. That's the kind of attitude that says DRG sucks regardless of how many updates they get.

Retaliation is nothing more than another TP tool. Now, if it stacked with Counter somehow that'd be great but I seriously doubt that's the case.

Pretty simple. If a war/mnk using retaliation were to Counter, it'd be impossible for Retaliate to proc. So you can benefit from both, but I think I see what you're saying. It'd be great, but overpowered, if we could replace an enemy attack with 2 of our own.

[Pteryx]

And I really don't understand why they've done that. Wasn't WAR already fine enough with damage on its own? Were they thinking it was a means of generating more hate for tanking purposes? If so it seems like a movement in the wrong direction and I can't understand SE's train of thought at all in this.

I can only guess that they were thinking, "Let's bait those DD WARs into tanking by making tanking a good way to DD!" (Personally, I would've done something to make it so 40+ WARs get more benefit from healing abilities and spells than other people instead, to mitigate the "MP sponge" problem while preserving WAR's need for outside assistance.)

I have to disagree with the sentiment that WARs can't tank past 30, though. At 29 the Eisen/Kampf gear set, which is superior for defense for quite some time, becomes available. You can tank all the way to 40 with it, if anyone will consider letting you try. By 40, though, your capability as a tank will begin to drop off even with up-to-date gear...

If you do want to tank as a WAR, be sure to put that in your search comment. Most WARs are absolutely terrified of tanking, to the point that it's assumed that any given WAR will refuse to and feel tricked if they're told they're going to. -- Pteryx

[Malacite]

Pretty simple. If a war/mnk using retaliation were to Counter, it'd be impossible for Retaliate to proc. So you can benefit from both, but I think I see what you're saying. It'd be great, but overpowered, if we could replace an enemy attack with 2 of our own.

No, what I was getting at was since they're both a "counter" of sorts, it would be great if their activation rates stacked but that'd be just nutty and broken. And idk what level your WAR is Ifrit, but last time I tried gearing up for tanking (AF for enmity and def food + defender etc) puks were still reaming me for over 200 dmg a hit. Also, you missed my point about armor completely which is that it doesn't matter what kind you wear if two people have the same or very similar defense ratings, which is just wrong IMO.

How about straight damage reduction based on type? (with appropriate evasion penalties I'd say)

[Lmnop]

No he didn't. Trolls hit me for 200/swing and hit PLDs for 60/swing. That's the difference that defensive gear/food and +48 defense in job traits does for them (oh, and A rank VIT for kicks).

[Asmodai]

heya guys, im posting back in just to update. I've been watching this thread all week. Good info. Thank you all! I lvl'd up my war to 18 now and working on Monk. in the meantime some of our guild friends will prolly help out in the subjob quest either tonight or sunday.

Currently it looks like im gonna do the war/mnk. Right now im working on getting the monk up to 15 so i can take the war up to 30. I haven't decided what to advance in. I've talked to a couple guys and the dual weilds sounds like fun. im still not familiar with what the Nin or Paladin has besides being a better tank. oh well Good times. Thanks again.

[Lmnop]

Dual wield is fun, I'll give you that. But efficiency-wise, you're going to want a Greataxe for the first 40-50 levels of the game. This was true before 2 handed weapons got buffed up, now it's just... more true.

[Asmodai]

I was going to ask, since I started with warrior on this character. Is war the only one I can lvl to 75 or can I lvl other jobs to 75 with out starting a new character?

[Armando]

You can level as many jobs to 75 as you like on the same character, even all of them.

Also, what Lmnop said.

[Asmodai]

yes, luckily someone told me early on to use the G.axe. as a lvl 18 I have my G.axe up to fifty something. So im well on my way. Thanks guys, Btw yes im at work and bored so im reading up on anything I can find.