What Is With Warriors Nowadays?

[Selphiie The Enchantress]

Warriors have provoke for a reason, it isn't to sit there and look pretty.

Basically this is what happened, we had a warrior invited to a level 45 party in Quicksand caves, not exping on Spiders of course, but on beetles. I pull the first mob and its just going everywhere while the warrior is just whacking away with it with his dual axes... WAR/NIN.

So after being asked and <call> by every party member to provoke, he FINALLY does after the whm dies... he tells us hes afraid to provoke because he doesn't want to die.

Partys are a team effort, if the other members do their jobs no body is going to die.

So it got to the point to where the Warrior didn't provoke and the beetle went towards the whm who was cure bombing him because he didnt have shadows as WAR/NIN, go figure. "DUAL WIELD ONRRRYYY, dats why i subz teh ninja" It linked with another beetle that was near the WHM, and the whole party was just furious with this WAR.

Why do some warriors these days think they AREN'T tanks. New Flash, WARRIORS were the original tanks they have tanking capabilitys and they have Provoke for a reason, it isnt for shits and giggles. Not provoking just because "you don't want to die" is the probably the worst thing ive EVER heard come from a Warrior.

I'm glad there are atleast some warriors who know how to play their jobs, but alot of newer post-TOAU warriors seem to think they are DD only and can't perform any other. I can't wait until this Warrior hits merit level (if he can hit merit level) and see who the mob faces the whole time, 2 bucks says he doesnt even have GA skilled.

Warriors:
Warriors CAN tank, even at higher levels they have the capability to tank. You can say Warrior isn't a tank, but i can tell you Ninja isn't a tank. Warriors were made to tank, they have defender they have provoke, they were given retaliation (for higher lvl WARs), if anyone says Warriors can't tank (normal exp mobs) I kill jooo (yes you Sevv :P, well im killing you anyway)

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg260/ScreenshotsFFXI/warrio1.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg260/ScreenshotsFFXI/warro2.jpg

[Kuro]

Wow... what a lovely fellow.

Remidna me fo the gil buying retard who went AFK and auto followed during prommy vhaz, then zoned out of my mithran BC because we died and only cast 1 sleep, as a DRK...

People these days are just plain lazy! I blame ToAU

[MrMageo]

Its backlash of TP Burns starting to flow down the levels.

"Warz pts up big numberz dual weild yo, they dont voke at endgamez and dont voke now, wantz a tank get nin orz"

Trying to sound e-thugish >.>

Basically selphie the TP Burn style is slowly corrupting the lower levels. Everyone is afraid to get hit because they think it will slow down a party.

I was in a party the other day on my sch which was under lvl 30 at the time. Think it was about 26 as we just broke into yuthunga. It was SCH/RDM(me) 2xwar, drg, mnk, Nin. end resault 1 death for me, no deaths for other goodbye thank you.

Ninja couldnt hold hate from all the DD, wars wouldnt voke because they didnt want to take hits, drg was crying off in the corner somewhere and the MNK was doing whatever MNK's do. First off I had a bad feeling being main heal with no cure 3, or even a curaga. Then the NIN and Warriors got into it when he asked them to oke during shadow loss. They didnt help him keep hate or keep it from me with a voke. Instead while curring him and the wars and DRG's (with cure 2 spam) I died, i bitched them all out excpet for the DRG and the MNK and left. 5 melee and 1 healer does not work at those levels and hate control is needed.

On a totally unrelated note how do i SC text I just got onto PC (been using PS2/3) also how do i have time log is that an addon or an ingame option. Id like to take pictures of me meleeing to stop some peple from accusing me of talking shit. Thanks and good luck with future warriors >.> lolGaxe i guess it is ; ;.

[Celeal]

Remember the good old days when sh*t happens in the party, the WAR was always the one who go down 1st, with *pride*

Remember the old days when the WAR community tried hard to fight off the image of sword + shield PLD-wannbe, or DRK-wannbe, or lol-war-subjob-only.

Seriously, many new WAR players nowadays missed a lot of fun aspect of WAR because to todays party's dynamic.

[Taermus]

Just curious... what was Nemrac?

BTW, I don't know what you mean by "warriors these days", cause I never do that stuff.

[Coinspinner]

Was he told he was tanking for that party? Looks like you had 2 WAR/NIN, which should have tanked beetles just fine. What a wuss.

[Selphiie The Enchantress]

Despite his look, Nemrac was a BST/NIN, had insane gear too, luisant hauberk and everything. The party was:

SCH, BLM,WHM,THF,WAR,BST

I told the war he was first provoke while i SATAd onto the BST, then would SATA back onto the WAR, i make it as point as THF to tell people whos first provoke and who im going to SATA onto, so we dont go into exping without knowing what the THF is doing.

And even if i didn't tell him, looking at the party setup, when your the only "Tank" job in the party, most smart people would know what they are doing. It's like me telling a whm each time he is going to be curing.

Its just SOME (not all Taermus ^^) warriors dont beleive they are tanks...

[Neomage]

I agree. TP burns are an effective tactic for meriting at high levels(Though I never really approved of them anyway, to monotone and disorganized), but the backlash from them is wreaking havoc in FFXI. I have noticed many lower level parties trying to apply TP burn tactics(to great failure), endgame events are horrible because my linkshell tries to apply coordinated party dynamics instead of zerging, but nobody knows how to Skillchain anymore, and if you are lucky enough to get into a balanced party setup, hate control is a mess. In my opinion Aht Urgan was a mess, and XXX-Burns should never exist. TP-burns, Manaburns, Arrowburns, Monkburns, they all gotta go.

[IfritnoItazura]

lol. Warriors don't have no Provoke! Noobs. >_>

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

In my opinion Aht Urgan was a mess, and XXX-Burns should never exist. TP-burns, Manaburns, Arrowburns, Monkburns, they all gotta go.

See here's the thing, though.

You're a a career mage, right?

Well, lets say IT++ EXP style is forced back on the community. PLD, NIN, RDM, BLU, BLM, WHM, COR, BRD, DNC and SCH are now required PT members to EXP at all. And the pissing contest that already exists between melees and tanks gets bigger.

BLMs would get PTs again and SCs would totally come back (and they may yet), but if you're a melee, your invites are going to be much more fiercely competitive and people won't just take any melee, they'll only take what they think are the best melee.

So going back would actually things more elitist, not less.

[WhiteMage]

lol. Warriors don't have no Provoke! Noobs. >_> Yeah noob's.....^^

[Neomage]

At least people would know how to apply strategy and tactics to difficult HNMs, Missions and BCNMs instead of attempting to zerg everything.

[Ziero]

Its backlash of TP Burns starting to flow down the levels.

"Warz pts up big numberz dual weild yo, they dont voke at endgamez and dont voke now, wantz a tank get nin orz"

Trying to sound e-thugish >.>

Basically selphie the TP Burn style is slowly corrupting the lower levels. Everyone is afraid to get hit because they think it will slow down a party.

I was in a party the other day on my sch which was under lvl 30 at the time. Think it was about 26 as we just broke into yuthunga. It was SCH/RDM(me) 2xwar, drg, mnk, Nin. end resault 1 death for me, no deaths for other goodbye thank you.

Ninja couldnt hold hate from all the DD, wars wouldnt voke because they didnt want to take hits, drg was crying off in the corner somewhere and the MNK was doing whatever MNK's do. First off I had a bad feeling being main heal with no cure 3, or even a curaga. Then the NIN and Warriors got into it when he asked them to oke during shadow loss. They didnt help him keep hate or keep it from me with a voke. Instead while curring him and the wars and DRG's (with cure 2 spam) I died, i bitched them all out excpet for the DRG and the MNK and left. 5 melee and 1 healer does not work at those levels and hate control is needed.

That's just a bad pt overall, with bad players. Any decent player knows that a War/Mnk tank on mandies is *sick*. But at that level almost any melee can tank. However having only one mage with no CIII meant no one could tank effectively.

Remember the good old days when sh*t happens in the party, the WAR was always the one who go down 1st, with *pride*

No because I have *never* seen that. There have always been those 'lolvoke' wars. I've been in this game over 4 years and that is not new. Bad players suck at every job. Just like how you'll still find cheap Rng, chain nuking Blm, Pld who don't cure and Drk who /ja+WS at the start of fights, these are bad players who just change jobs and make other jobs look bad. It's not any worse now then it was then.

I agree. TP burns are an effective tactic for meriting at high levels(Though I never really approved of them anyway, to monotone and disorganized), but the backlash from them is wreaking havoc in FFXI. I have noticed many lower level parties trying to apply TP burn tactics(to great failure), endgame events are horrible because my linkshell tries to apply coordinated party dynamics instead of zerging, but nobody knows how to Skillchain anymore, and if you are lucky enough to get into a balanced party setup, hate control is a mess. In my opinion Aht Urgan was a mess, and XXX-Burns should never exist. TP-burns, Manaburns, Arrowburns, Monkburns, they all gotta go.

Burn pts are some of the best EXP out there and almost, if not every, job can join *some* form of them. And they're also highly effective even in lower levels. But the thing is people must know how they work. Not voking and letting mages get hit is *not* part of TP burns. It means you're being cured for more hate then you can do dmg for, which means you're doing it wrong. TP burns is a type of strategy and when done right, even in the dunes, is freaking amazing. If your melees don't know how to work together in Endgame events, it's because they suck.

TP burns made EXP easier, but it didn't make people stupider. Because people were ALWAYS stupid.

[Taermus]

Oh, man. I always miss out on parties with BST.

I miss the days when I could tank as a war/mnk. But /sam is nice for just about everything I want to do these days.

Mandies don't need cure III. Regen and Cure II is fine unless you're stupid enough to use berserk. Sad thing is, my war/mnk mule can't find a whm or rdm that knows what regen is.

WHAT IS WITH HEALERS NOWADAYS????

[Coinspinner]

Despite his look, Nemrac was a BST/NIN, had insane gear too, luisant hauberk and everything. The party was:

SCH, BLM,WHM,THF,WAR,BST

My mistake then. I don't blame him for being nervous with that setup. Not making any attempt to tank is still wrong of him though.

At least people would know how to apply strategy and tactics to difficult HNMs, Missions and BCNMs instead of attempting to zerg everything.

"They" didn't know that even back when SC+MB style was the only style.

...

There have always been those 'lolvoke' wars. I've been in this game over 4 years and that is not new. Bad players suck at every job. Just like how you'll still find cheap Rng, chain nuking Blm, Pld who don't cure and Drk who /ja+WS at the start of fights, these are bad players who just change jobs and make other jobs look bad. It's not any worse now then it was then.

...

TP burns is a type of strategy and when done right, even in the dunes, is freaking amazing. If your melees don't know how to work together in Endgame events, it's because they suck.

TP burns made EXP easier, but it didn't make people stupider. Because people were ALWAYS stupid.

Quoted for truth. (Except maybe the part about Dunes TP burns being amazing.)

[Selphiie The Enchantress]

Thankfully after a bit of waiting and replacing some people because people had to go, we finally found a WAR who was willing to tank, and because of this i got 2 lvls on my THF, he tanks flawlessly even without help from my SATA.

It just goes to show, its the attitute of the player. I'd rather more daring individuals pick up the warrior job, and let more wussy "im afraid to tank cuz i dont wanna die, i dont want to lose exp" people go off and solo or play another job.

(and yes unfortauntely thats a lvl 40+ SAM without okotes/jujitsugi/whatever else that makes SAM pimp at 40+ wearing chainmail x.x) he was still awesome though.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg260/ScreenshotsFFXI/warrior3.jpg

[JTF-Taru]

Thankfully after a bit of waiting and replacing some people because people had to go, we finally found a WAR who was willing to tank, and because of this i got 2 lvls on my THF, he tanks flawlessly even without help from my SATA.

It just goes to show, its the attitute of the player. I'd rather more daring individuals pick up the warrior job, and let more wussy "im afraid to tank cuz i dont wanna die, i dont want to lose exp" people go off and solo or play another job.

(and yes unfortauntely thats a lvl 40+ SAM without okotes/jujitsugi/whatever else that makes SAM pimp at 40+ wearing chainmail x.x) he was still awesome though.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg260/ScreenshotsFFXI/warrior3.jpg

Most of the time it's nothing to do with warriors. It's to do with RDM and WHM who only want to main heal ninjas and who won't party with a WAR tank.

JTF

[DakAttack]

Tanking was the only way I could get my levels as a Warrior back in the old days.

[Ziero]

Quoted for truth. (Except maybe the part about Dunes TP burns being amazing.)

Oh believe me, when done right, they most certainly are. Four melee, two mages, and a fair amount of T-VT mobs means you'll be pulling in constant c4-c5 and an easy 10k an hour...which for the dunes is amazing. At that level anyone can tank VT mobs and with proper gear and food players can be really strong against mobs who haven't changed a bit since day one of this game.

Thankfully after a bit of waiting and replacing some people because people had to go, we finally found a WAR who was willing to tank, and because of this i got 2 lvls on my THF, he tanks flawlessly even without help from my SATA.

It just goes to show, its the attitute of the player. I'd rather more daring individuals pick up the warrior job, and let more wussy "im afraid to tank cuz i dont wanna die, i dont want to lose exp" people go off and solo or play another job.

(and yes unfortauntely thats a lvl 40+ SAM without okotes/jujitsugi/whatever else that makes SAM pimp at 40+ wearing chainmail x.x) he was still awesome though.

Really though, it all comes down to players and not the jobs. People who suck on one job will most likely suck on others. If a War doesn't voke while on war, you can bet he wouldn't voke if he was Sam/war or something either.

And as for your sam, as long as he had gear proper to what he needed to do and knew how to do his job, there was nothing unfortunate about it. At those levels you can't expect everyone to have the top of the line gear, especially things that are still as rare and valuable as Okotes and Ju Gi. And if that's his highest job, he has good reason to be using 'lesser' but still effective gear. But as you yourself said, he was still awesome and that's all that should matter.

[fallenintoshadows]

I don't envy you, that ignorant player is putting all warriors to shame. I was still tanking in my 60's when there was no other more suitable tanks around. As you get higher it depends a lot more on decent gear than it does when you are lower but it's still possible.

[IfritnoItazura]

(and yes unfortauntely thats a lvl 40+ SAM without okotes/jujitsugi/whatever else that makes SAM pimp at 40+ wearing chainmail x.x) he was still awesome though.
Maybe it's Silver Chainmail instead of Iron Chainmail set. :wasted:

I can understand not being able to afford Ochiudo's/Horomusha Kote, but Jujitsu Gi is not that hard to come by, at only somewhat higher price than Woodsman Ring (on Ifrit, anyway). Tell me he at least have Royal Squire's Mufflers or Windurstian Tekko.

[Selphiie The Enchantress]

Nah he was a good Samurai, i liked his attitude, he knew what he was doing and offered to be first provoke before i even asked him so he obviously understood SATA, coulda gone without the Naruto macros, but other than that one of the best players ive played with in awhile.

So i'm seeking today and search my level range to see if I can build a party, and this warrior is seeking again, and "surprisingly" his /seacom says "Don't invite me to tank, {Shield}{No,Thanks}"

...please quit Warrior now

[Pteryx]

Ninja couldnt hold hate from all the DD, wars wouldnt voke because they didnt want to take hits, drg was crying off in the corner somewhere and the MNK was doing whatever MNK's do. First off I had a bad feeling being main heal with no cure 3, or even a curaga. Then the NIN and Warriors got into it when he asked them to oke during shadow loss. They didnt help him keep hate or keep it from me with a voke. Instead while curring him and the wars and DRG's (with cure 2 spam) I died, i bitched them all out excpet for the DRG and the MNK and left. 5 melee and 1 healer does not work at those levels and hate control is needed.

Were you also using Regen? It's considerably more useful than it might appear, and might have reduced the hate impact and difficulty of main healing. Though I do agree that the setup sucked; that's not even a proper meleeburn. -- Pteryx

[Celeal]

There are bad and good WAR players in the old days, so do nowadays. However, the mindset or ideal of todays WAR indeed water-down. WAR/NIN dual tank with other NIN or DD/NIN, or beginning the SATA partner is expected at the OP's level range in the old days. If the WAR do not prefer to tank, he would seek as WAR/THF w/ Great Axe instead of seeking as WAR/NIN with such as shameful /seacom {Shield } { No thanks }

[Selphiie The Enchantress]

instead of seeking as WAR/NIN with such as shameful /seacom

Seeking as WAR/NIN without Utsusemi ><;;;

I think he doesnt even have GA skill since his excuse for subbing ninja was purely for "Dual Wielding Axes"

Which dual wielding axes is fine, but atleast have your A Weapon skilled.

Warriors are weapon masters, they can get the most WSNMs out of any job (correct me if im wrong), and only having just one weapon skilled is kinda sad...

[Ziero]

There are bad and good WAR players in the old days, so do nowadays. However, the mindset or ideal of todays WAR indeed water-down. WAR/NIN dual tank with other NIN or DD/NIN, or beginning the SATA partner is expected at the OP's level range in the old days. If the WAR do not prefer to tank, he would seek as WAR/THF w/ Great Axe instead of seeking as WAR/NIN with such as shameful /seacom {Shield } { No thanks }
10 gil says the gimp doesn't have /thf or Gaxe leveled.

This dude is outdated by todays standards. Nin hasn't been the best sub at his lvl for a LONG time. With Hasso and the 2 hander update, 40-50 War/Sam with Gaxe is a *beast*.

I think he's gimp for the sake of being gimp, and it doesn't go any deeper then that.
______________________________
Warriors are weapon masters, they can get the most WSNMs out of any job (correct me if im wrong), and only having just one weapon skilled is kinda sad...

One of my ingame goals is to get the WSs for Gaxe, Axe, Sword, Gsword and Scythe on my war. I might do polearm...but I never liked spears so that's iffy at best >_>

Also gonna need Dag for my Thf

[Coinspinner]

Oh believe me, when done right, they most certainly are. Four melee, two mages, and a fair amount of T-VT mobs means you'll be pulling in constant c4-c5 and an easy 10k an hour...which for the dunes is amazing. At that level anyone can tank VT mobs and with proper gear and food players can be really strong against mobs who haven't changed a bit since day one of this game.

Oh, ok. That's basically a normal dunes party, except everyone has proper food, drink, and gear. That will blaze through dunes, no doubt, but I thought TP burn always involved BRD and/or COR.

[Selphiie The Enchantress]

One of my ingame goals is to get the WSs for Gaxe, Axe, Sword, Gsword and Scythe on my war.

Newer warriors might learn something from better WARs like you :]

Although is it sad I know a 75WAR with a ridill and ahauberk who doesnt have his GA skilled past the dunes...

[Ziero]

From my understanding TP burn meant you had as many melee and as few support as you could where all the melee droped WS at 100tp while hate was bouncing between them.

Normal dunes Pts have tanks and usually stick to the three melee, two support, one tank set up or even dual tank set ups.

That's not to say you can have a Cor or Brd in the pt as one of your 'mages' with the other mage being a healer and the rest all melee DD.

I guess the confusion is my fault for saying 'two mages' as opposed to two 'support' because we have so many non-mage support jobs now.

[Murphie]

I was in a WARx2 MNK, SAMx2, BRD (me) party the other day in the dunes that felt like a TP burn. We had a PL, of course, because I sure as hell couldn't keep up with healing. I don't usually do PL parties, but I was tired of having BRD at 12.

[Coinspinner]

You also said that anyone can tank VT at that level, so I thought one of those "melee" you mentioned would be tanking. Without Curaga I don't think letting hate bounce is a good idea.

[Selphiie The Enchantress]

-pulls out hair- GAWD i just want to freaking punch a hole in the wall.

Here was the situation, i finally got a party invite after 4 hours seeking, party setup so far is THF,BLM,WHM,SAM, there was a DNC otw, the party leader after 10 minutes ask if the party wants to disband, since we cant find a tank, when there CLEARLY is a lvl 45 Warrior in our level range. I mention the job and name to the party leader, and the party leader responds quickly like she knew wtf she was talking about "Warrior No Tank!"
I just stopped talking...

I wanted to freakin punch a whole in the wall...i just wish these kind of people would quit the game now.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg260/ScreenshotsFFXI/warrior5.jpg

[Celeal]

... party setup so far is THF,BLM,WHM,SAM, there was a DNC otw, the party leader after 10 minutes ask if the party wants to disband, since we cant find a tank, when there CLEARLY is a lvl 45 Warrior in our level range. I mention the job and name to the party leader, and the party leader responds quickly like she knew wtf she was talking about "Warrior No Tank!" ...


IMHO, that party setup is for a *skillful* NIN/WAR main tanking; relatively low risk, rewarding if things go as planned.

Insert a PLD/WAR tank there would put stress on the tank and healer: lack Refresh. It will work if the party can setup Tachi: Enpi -> SATA Viper on PLD + MB. DNC helps in this setup, but everyone in the party has to pull they weight and perform.

WAR tank in that setup would have periodical downtime: Like, hit chain #3/4/5 -> rest a little -> hit chain #3/4/5 -> rest a little -> ... rinse and repeat. Shorter battle duration, with downtime in between chains.

Once I had a pickup party at level 46 in Crawler's Nest during the CoP era: WAR/NIN, WAR/THF (me), DRK/WAR, BLM/WHM x 2, SMN/WHM. WAR/NIN was tanking, but only for a short time each battle. Every SC + MB KO the mobs:

SMN did Blood Pact MB together with 2x BLM's MB, whenever MP + timer was up, with a 3-way Skillchain --- Stumwind (WAR/NIN) -> Shadow of Death (DRK) [2x BLM's MB] -> SA + Stumwind (WAR/THF) [2x BLM's + SMN's MB]. The party dynamic was chain #4/5 -> rest -> chain #4/5 -> rest -> ...; pulling VT -> IT -> VT -> IT...

You cannot just exchange NIN/WAR or PLD/WAR in a party with a WAR and expect everything else will work the same.

[Celeal]

To be fair, there is a chance for another 10 or 15 min, another group starts to form.

If the entire party are willing to make WAR tank works, it is worthed a try.

If anyone in the party is not willing to cooperate (WAR no tank?), the party already fail to make WAR tanking at the beginning.

[Jei]

DUAL WIELD ONRRRYYY, dats why i subz teh ninja
I'm so quoting that into my signature...

Warrior can definitely be a tank. But gotta ask the warrior first thing before invite, you know, if he's willing to main tank or not.